Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[thfcsteff]

I can not believe that there are SOME fans who seem to think/believe that Poch has taken us as far as he can. Madness but then again it should not surprise me as there is nothing as fickle as SOME fans who have seen their side beaten.

GHod help us we are doomed.

Honestly mate, I am appalled.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Sounds good, are you on Grindr?

It is my middle name, well it is not, that is actually stuart.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Espanyol?

3 seasons I thought

I haven’t checked though

 

[Legohamster]

Don’t want the manager to go. Can’t see how anyone would.

But he need to use this season as a learning curve, he needs to talk less about behind the scenes stuff - how does saying more players want off help anyone?

Also the little dig at Levy the other day, why now? Why not do it in the summer (I agree with him) makes it look like excuse making.

I know it’s been done to death, but stop slagging off the domestic cups. We are now in a position we’re the FA Cup is now the only realistic thing we are going to win - he’s now made it worthless to the squad.

Next season will be a different beast. Massive feel good factor around the club moving to the stadium.

 

[Robspur12]

Don’t want the manager to go. Can’t see how anyone would.

But he need to use this season as a learning curve, he needs to talk less about behind the scenes stuff - how does saying more players want off help anyone?

Also the little dig at Levy the other day, why now? Why not do it in the summer (I agree with him) makes it look like excuse making.

I know it’s been done to death, but stop slagging off the domestic cups. We are now in a position we’re the FA Cup is now the only realistic thing we are going to win - he’s now made it worthless to the squad.

Next season will be a different beast. Massive feel good factor around the club moving to the stadium.

Poch has improved us every season. In doing so he has demonstrated that he is a "learning" coach, a tremendous asset for a coach. He also exudes calmness under pressure. These are traits that make the best coaches stand out from the ordinary ones. Our 2 previous managers (not counting Sherwood) did not appear to possess them, certainly not while at Spurs. It's why he suits our club because we can't necessarily buy our way out of problems like Mourinho or Guardiola. Levy knows it and I can see him keeping the faith with this guy.

 

[thfcsteff]

It makes me sick that after all he has done, after all he has shown us, that people STILL don't seem to trust the man.
I guarantee that if there is ONE man who hurt more than any of us after that defeat it will be him. And I guarantee that if there isn ONE man who wanted to do more to mitigate/avoid it, it was him.
In Poch I Trust.

 

[harr1984]

OK. Sorry mate, this reply is NOT just to you but also to a few others making the same general points, I have to say the following.
1) do any of you speak to the coaching staff regularly?
2) do all of you believe it is as easy as 'playing a bloke who came back and assisted within minutes of his comeback?
3) do all of you believe that bringing Aurier on would've changed the game?
4) do all of you believe that 4-4-2, with Llorente and Kane together up top, would REALLY have got the job done against a side who can send Bernardo fudging Silva on with two minutes left?

Seriously.
Some people, in my un-humble opinion, need to re-evaluate how they watch matches and process disappointments.
I laugh every fudging time the Lamela thing comes up. He just played 70 minutes against brickton, building his confidence and match fitness further, yet some people believe he should've started again yesterday against the fastest, slickest side in the league at their gaff? After a year off? With it documented that he has gone through confidence issues regarding his health? See, I want him fit and ready for the games over Xmas we should win, and into the New Year. I don't want to knacker him for 6 months again!

After 30 minutes we were 1-0 down. Not because of Kieran Tripper. Because we missed a key assignment from a set-piece. A mistake NOT down to Trippier. We went in at HT one goal down.
If a few of our star players had even been 30% closer to peak form, we might well have got that goal back within the first 15 minutes go the second half, when City were getting pegged back.
The catalytic moment was Dele's awful challenge on the ginger, which should've been a red. The Ginger subsequently did what you coach all kids to do, and took out his anger on the ball. To blame Tripper for not containing him is folly; the bloke's been uncontainable by every side he's faced this season and will jostle with D Silva for player of the year.

I think it'd be well worth remembering that right before they got their third, we should've either scored or engineered a penalty opportunity. We were fighting to get back in the game. That we coughed two more up was silly.

Something is not right, that much is clear. I have my theories, and they revolve around a combination of players being tapped up/back-chatted, poor form and the 'homeless' factor.

But I hope our 'supporters' can remember that we are 3 points off top 4, in the CL knock-outs and have two of our most important players returning in January.

Once again, we need to fudging grow a pair. In my un-humble opinion!

What is it with questioning our coach, why does it rub some people up the wrong way so much?! Just because he's a good coach doesnt mean he doesnt get things wrong and cant be questioned. He hasnt won anything and hasnt earned the right to be treated like a messiah who can do no wrong just because he has progressed us - It doesnt mean people who criticise or ask questions dont respect what he has done for us, or in my case love him for being our coach.

Ive said this several times now, it doesnt have to be about changing the personnel if you dont like that argument. He should have changed the way we played, as was clear early on City's pressing was too good for us to play out from the back. Noone is blaming Trippier for us being 1-0 down, but he was on toast and that needed to be looked at. We have been poor for the majority of this season and there is nothing wrong with questioning Poch's tactics. Much poorer teams than us have gone there and been far more solid, if you want Poch to take all the plaudits for when we are doing well then he sure as hell has to be questioned when we aren't doing well.....

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think its not criticism as such, rather how it comes across.

Some people make completely valid points in a constructive way. Other sound like petulant toddlers throwing a tantrum. Some come across as they think they could do better themselves...

This place is hard work after a loss because some people are a bit OTT in their "passions" when posting. Some are WAY OTT! Which in turn has others going a similar distance in the opposite direction to balance things out...

 

[glasgowspur]

Poch is the best we as a club can attract, both in quality and suitabilty.
Conte, who will be gone end of the season
Jose, probably gone end of next season
Klopp, be lucky to get to next Christmas imo
And Pep would not come to us.
Ancelotti will replace conte in the summer, told you that 3 months ago.
So which top manager is going to come here?
And even if they do come all the elite clubs and managers are a merry go round the same way the middle and bottom tier clubs are.
Our best chance of glory is to be stable and take advantage to the elite clubs when they are in transition periods.

 

[harr1984]

I think its not criticism as such, rather how it comes across.

Some people make completely valid points in a constructive way. Other sound like petulant toddlers throwing a tantrum. Some come across as they think they could do better themselves...

This place is hard work after a loss because some people are a bit OTT in their "passions" when posting. Some are WAY OTT! Which in turn has others going a similar distance in the opposite direction to balance things out...

Thats fair enough, and the fact it wasnt just a loss but a pretty embarrassing one only flares up such emotions.

I can only speak for myself, but Ive done nothing beyond question why Poch didnt change anything whether it be from the bench or just tactically on the pitch. Is that not a legitimate question? All I get back is posts as if Ive insulted him or suggested he's not good enough. It feels on this forum like if you question the coach, or any of the favourite players' form ie Dele, Eriksen you're saying they're not good enough etc or want rid. Who on earth is saying that? I love Poch as anyone, but why on earth cant you question him? Like I said he hasnt actually won anything so hes not beyond criticism! Does that mean I think there's a better coach for us out there? Hell no....

 

[Robspur12]

What is it with questioning our coach, why does it rub some people up the wrong way so much?! Just because he's a good coach doesnt mean he doesnt get things wrong and cant be questioned. He hasnt won anything and hasnt earned the right to be treated like a messiah who can do no wrong just because he has progressed us - It doesnt mean people who criticise or ask questions dont respect what he has done for us, or in my case love him for being our coach.

Ive said this several times now, it doesnt have to be about changing the personnel if you dont like that argument. He should have changed the way we played, as was clear early on City's pressing was too good for us to play out from the back. Noone is blaming Trippier for us being 1-0 down, but he was on toast and that needed to be looked at. We have been poor for the majority of this season and there is nothing wrong with questioning Poch's tactics. Much poorer teams than us have gone there and been far more solid, if you want Poch to take all the plaudits for when we are doing well then he sure as hell has to be questioned when we aren't doing well.....

It's not the questioning of the coach per se for me that is a problem. It is the manner in which it is done that irritates me. Question him all you want there'll be no issue with me. However,

It is fans who dress up a bit of knowledge as coaching fact. They assert if Poch had done X the result would have been Y as if they know the ins and outs of the squad better than the man who works with them day in day out. It's the belief that fans can see things as glaringly obvious but the coach can't. I call it the "Alan Shearer condition" where people sit and pontificate to managers from the comfort of their sofas but when they are called to put their money where their mouth is, they crash and burn and suddenly realise football management is not as easy as they thought it was.

It is the failure to give proper consideration of context when judging Spurs under Poch. You know if Atletico can win the Spanish League and Leicester can win the EPL then Spurs should be winning it too. Then so should Everton, so should Aston Villa, so should frigging Liverpool. But guess what they are not. Therefore even when we finish second with a points total we have never been close to in my nearly 40 years of supporting Spurs, better than it took to win the league the previous season, it is still not considered good enough because he hasn't won a trophy.

It is fans who flip from the ecstatic when we win to the verge of clinical depression when we lose - with nothing in the middle.

It is the lack of respect shown in the tone of some posts for the best coach we have had at this club in years.

There rant over. Perhaps it's my age that I am getting less patient. Believe me I want success as much as anyone.

 

[Legohamster]

It makes me sick that after all he has done, after all he has shown us, that people STILL don't seem to trust the man.
I guarantee that if there is ONE man who hurt more than any of us after that defeat it will be him. And I guarantee that if there isn ONE man who wanted to do more to mitigate/avoid it, it was him.
In Poch I Trust.

Haven’t seen one normal person call for his head.

It’s not a crime to point out his weaknesses.

Like players, we won’t get a world class manager - we have to develop one.

This season is a massive bye in the eyes of quite a few, how many managers get that?

 

[Grays_1890]

This season is a massive bye in the eyes of quite a few, how many managers get that?

I am not sure, I think being 3 points of top 4, in the knockouts in the CL after a world class group performance (lets not under sell ourselves) and we have an FA Cup campaign to continue.

Thats far from a massive Bye of a season. You take Emirates Marketing Project and their near silly dominance of the league out and look our upcoming group of games and I don't see us being too far away from where we were end of January last year

 

[Spur of the moment]

I agree, but I doubt he thought that Eriksen and Alli would be so poor, I'm sure he thought he'd get better performance from them and trusted them to do so. As much as Toby's injury hurts, the one which did us here was Sanchez's suspension. If he plays, Dier can go alongside Winks and we don't need to start Dembele/can use him for impact. I think that area is where we got absolutely murdered, as Winks was left alone for long periods due to Moose being pressed an unable to deal. Dier has more energy in that position these days. But again, I think you're right, Poch went to play football and saw his key men simply not do a thing.

One of the reasons we continue to do so poorly against the top teams away from home has to do with us always trying to play football rather than adopting a more pragmatic approach.

City of course are running away with it this season but even so there was general agreement in the media - and to an extent on here - that if one team stood a chance against them at the Etihad it was us. So Pep did his homework thoroughly and prepared his team to go out and blast us out of the water.

But you know, for decent periods we withstood their frenzied onslaught. At one point before the roof fell in midway through the second half the possession stats posted were 51%-49%. Now I know that possession stats mean little and there's no question city had been looking far more dangerous in attack, but how many other teams have gone to the Etihad and matched City for possession this season? Most sides go with a plan to concede possession and get 10 or11 behind the ball when visiting a top six side but never us.

There are other things also going on whenever we are away to the top teams imo. They all seem to raise their game whenever we come to town. It's like we are seen as the upstarts, the team they dare not lose to, the team threatening their cosy cabal, the team most likely to steal their top four spot.

The one team they absolutely must keep out.

I think its not criticism as such, rather how it comes across.

Some people make completely valid points in a constructive way. Other sound like petulant toddlers throwing a tantrum. Some come across as they think they could do better themselves...

This place is hard work after a loss because some people are a bit OTT in their "passions" when posting. Some are WAY OTT! Which in turn has others going a similar distance in the opposite direction to balance things out...

And a few of us, yourself included, are simply asking for a sense of proportion. We lost to what may well be right now the best team on the planet, courtesy of oil money.

Yes Poch might have done better with his team formation, yes he probably should have replaced Trippier early on and yes, in hindsight - though deeply embedded as the Tottenham way - it probably was a mistake to try and play open football against them.

But at the end of the day would it have made that much of a difference against such a brilliantly rampant team that was so clearly fired up and went all out to put us off our game?

Time to get real, methinks.

 

[harr1984]

It's not the questioning of the coach per se for me that is a problem. It is the manner in which it is done that irritates me. Question him all you want there'll be no issue with me. However,

It is fans who dress up a bit of knowledge as coaching fact. They assert if Poch had done X the result would have been Y as if they know the ins and outs of the squad better than the man who works with them day in day out. It's the belief that fans can see things as glaringly obvious but the coach can't. I call it the "Alan Shearer condition" where people sit and pontificate to managers from the comfort of their sofas but when they are called to put their money where their mouth is, they crash and burn and suddenly realise football management is not as easy as they thought it was.

It is the failure to give proper consideration of context when judging Spurs under Poch. You know if Atletico can win the Spanish League and Leicester can win the EPL then Spurs should be winning it too. Then so should Everton, so should Aston Villa, so should frigging Liverpool. But guess what they are not. Therefore even when we finish second with a points total we have never been close to in my nearly 40 years of supporting Spurs, better than it took to win the league the previous season, it is still not considered good enough because he hasn't won a trophy.

It is fans who flip from the ecstatic when we win to the verge of clinical depression when we lose - with nothing in the middle.

It is the lack of respect shown in the tone of some posts for the best coach we have had at this club in years.

There rant over. Perhaps it's my age that I am getting less patient. Believe me I want success as much as anyone.

Expectations increase the better you perform, thats just the nature of the beast. I personally havent seen anything on here beyond 'Why hasnt Poch done x,y and z' which I dont believe equates to anyone believing they are experts in coaching a football team, or think could do better. I believe Poch had a poor game vs City, and am comfortable in questioning his tactics in such a case - I dont do it often because as I stress often I love the guy, but do think some here take it way too personally when a poster is critical of him and certainly havent seen anyone show a lack of respect towards him. I bet you he is more critical of himself than any one of us on here have been, and that is why I hope and pretty much expect him to overcome the small amount of shortcomings he has....

 

[BrainOfLevy]

OK. Sorry mate, this reply is NOT just to you but also to a few others making the same general points, I have to say the following.
1) do any of you speak to the coaching staff regularly?
2) do all of you believe it is as easy as 'playing a bloke who came back and assisted within minutes of his comeback?
3) do all of you believe that bringing Aurier on would've changed the game?
4) do all of you believe that 4-4-2, with Llorente and Kane together up top, would REALLY have got the job done against a side who can send Bernardo fudging Silva on with two minutes left?

Seriously.
Some people, in my un-humble opinion, need to re-evaluate how they watch matches and process disappointments.
I laugh every fudging time the Lamela thing comes up. He just played 70 minutes against brickton, building his confidence and match fitness further, yet some people believe he should've started again yesterday against the fastest, slickest side in the league at their gaff? After a year off? With it documented that he has gone through confidence issues regarding his health? See, I want him fit and ready for the games over Xmas we should win, and into the New Year. I don't want to knacker him for 6 months again!

After 30 minutes we were 1-0 down. Not because of Kieran Tripper. Because we missed a key assignment from a set-piece. A mistake NOT down to Trippier. We went in at HT one goal down.
If a few of our star players had even been 30% closer to peak form, we might well have got that goal back within the first 15 minutes go the second half, when City were getting pegged back.
The catalytic moment was Dele's awful challenge on the ginger, which should've been a red. The Ginger subsequently did what you coach all kids to do, and took out his anger on the ball. To blame Tripper for not containing him is folly; the bloke's been uncontainable by every side he's faced this season and will jostle with D Silva for player of the year.

I think it'd be well worth remembering that right before they got their third, we should've either scored or engineered a penalty opportunity. We were fighting to get back in the game. That we coughed two more up was silly.

Something is not right, that much is clear. I have my theories, and they revolve around a combination of players being tapped up/back-chatted, poor form and the 'homeless' factor.

But I hope our 'supporters' can remember that we are 3 points off top 4, in the CL knock-outs and have two of our most important players returning in January.

Once again, we need to fudging grow a pair. In my un-humble opinion!

Spot on, particularly your last line. And I think you’re even being too kind with that. This most recent loss has really bought out the idiocy in some people. Calling the best manager we’ve had for decades ‘tactically naive’ because he didn’t make the subs they want him to make, wondering if he’s gone as far as he can, calling him stubborn because he didn’t play the players that they wanted him to, it’s actually ridiculous.

We are 3 points off of 4th and we’ve been through the worst run of form we will probably have all season. We have completely lost the home advantage that got us so many points last year. We have lost Wanayama for half a season and have had to remove his more than capable replacement in Dier from midfield because we’ve also lost Toby and Sanchez. We typically always have a strong Christmas period and strong second half of the season, and we’ve smashed a Champions League group containing the competition holders. So I wish people would have some fudging perspective.

It’s really getting on my nerves reading all of the comment on forums, Reddit and actually from decent Spurs journos where Poch is losing the confidence of people and actually has questions to answer. No he fudging doesn’t. As you say, if anyone is hurting and is going to do absolutely whatever it takes to make things right, and if anyone has the capability to do so, it is him. He has EARNED our trust. Back the man and stick with him, anything else is not much short of disgraceful. We got 86 points last year because of him, not because it was our rightful level.

Honestly, this most recent loss to one of the best teams the PL has seen when we have a bunch of key players out has really brought out the macarons. He will fix it. But to be honest, even if this season turns into a disaster and we end up finishing bottom half, he still deserves our trust because we’ve handicapped him this year by losing our home advantage. But to call the man stubborn (when he’s actually shown himself to be massively adaptable, particularly this season), tactically naive (when we’ve won massive games against top sides in comfortable fashion)?or that he has taken the club as far as he can is just so ridiculous that it makes my blood boil. Have some fudging perspective people.

 

[Grays_1890]

The popular press are saying this is the best club side Englands seen and we are saying its the end of the line because they beat us....sense of reality needed

 

[Rorschach]

I think City made us play so poorly though, they pressed so high and well, often having 2/3 players around us so we couldn't get out. Yes we could have played long but the press would have been the same.

They also have serious pace all across the team (Walker, Sane, Sterling, De Bruyne, Aguero, Jesus) which utterly destroyed us. They had so much movement with players running left and right that we simply couldn't handle it.

Obviously we also didn't play well, Dembele got totally outdone in the middle and Winks was poor and offered no protection but I think their pressure forced us into mistakes.

That is how I saw it too. Poch went in with the same game plan as last season, which worked then, but this was not the same City team.

A few things I noticed. They went 3 v 3 on our back line Dier, Vertoghen and Lloris which gave us no platform to build off. This starved us of any meaningful possession and for the entire 1st half we tried to play out unsuccessfully. 3 at the back would have helped us here.

In contrast our high press was easily bypassed as they had a 1 sometimes 2 man advantage at the back (counting their GK who was excellent with his feet) and they passed around us easily into their free midfield (Winks and Dembele were sitting off). Once they had beaten our press that released their full backs into midfield to make up the numbers there. Our front 3 (or sometimes 4) were not killing themselves to get back to help out a lot of the time and so Winks and Dembele were totally outmanned in the middle.

They were breaking our pitiful attempts at tackling very easily, which only exacerbated the issue. Although we were playing particularly brick when we had the ball, giving it away very cheaply, we were predominantly beaten in a numbers game IMO. I hope Poch learns to change things on the fly a bit better going forward.

 

[glasgowspur]

That is how I saw it too. Poch went in with the same game plan as last season, which worked then, but this was not the same City team.

A few things I noticed. They went 3 v 3 versus our back line Dier Vertoghen and Lloris which gave us no platform to build off. This starved us of any meaningful possession and for the entire 1st half we tried to play out unsuccessfully. 3 at the back would have helped us here.
In contrast our high press was easily bypassed as they had a 1 sometimes 2 man advantage (counting their GK) and they passed around us easily into their free midfield (Winks and Dembele were sitting off), and that released their full backs into midfield to make up the numbers there. Our front 3 (or sometimes 4) were not killing themselves to get back to help out a lot of the time and so Winks and Dembele were totally outmanned in the middle.
They were breaking our attempts at tackling very easily which only exacerbate the issue. Although we were playing particularly brick when we had the ball, we were predominantly beaten in a numbers game IMO. I hope Poch learns to change things on the fly a bit better going forward.

Bolded bit is spot on imo. Eriksen and Dele didn' want to do the hard work of coming back to help out.

 

[glasgowspur]

Another thing re poch and this week' game, we shouldn't be comparing ourselves against city.
They have a spent fortune to be playing great football and breaking records everywhere you look, but they won' be satisfied with that team and will go out and spend at least £150m between now and the start next season.
We can't compete with that, and tbh I don't see anyone else in this league who can.
They are close to the stage of being able buy elite players just to stop other teams getting them.
Man u are spunking £75M on lukaku and trying To convince everyone they're big time, what chance have We got?