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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

billyiddo said:
Why are you only looking at the Fa Cup?

I think people are arguing different points, that's why there us a debate
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Because the FA Cup is the one that big teams take seriously. The League Cup isn't prioritised by any top team, the FA Cup still is (not that big teams still don't win it)....
 
thfcsteff said:
OK.

First of all, we had horrible injuries early season, coupled with tired players returning from a Euros fudged up by Hodgson (the core of ours and England's team - young men too, not seasoned vets). Our first choice defense only played together less than 10 times in all competitions!!!!!!!
Champions League - whilst not incredible, we were NOT as poor as some have made out, we simply did not have our best side out for most games (due to injuries).
FA Cup - I would argue this was a crushing disappointment simply because we were better yet failed to win. It is the ONE game where I wanted more, however again, no Rose and Walker did not start.
League Cup - I honestly cannot remember what happened here as I type.
Premiership - glorious, and 86 points is usually enough to win the fudging thing.

If I had to watch the turgid garbage Utd put out, I'd go and support Wigan, Bolton, anyone!!!!!
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To be pedantic about your final point... whilst it was indeed a glorious League campaign, this season's points haul would've "only" won 2 of the past 14 titles... hence why the Foxes were considered so damn jammy, to pinch it last season with such a low tally...

2017: Chelsea 93pts (+52) ; Tottenham 86pts (+60)
2016: Leicester 81pts (+32) ; Arsenal 71pts (+29)
2015: Chelsea 87pts (+41) ; Emirates Marketing Project 79pts (+45)
2014: Emirates Marketing Project 86pts (+65) ; Liverpool 84pts (+51)
2013: Man Utd 89pts (+43) ; Emirates Marketing Project 78pts (+32)
2012: Emirates Marketing Project 89pts (+64) ; Man Utd 89pts (+56)
2011: Man Utd 80pts (+41) ; Chelsea 71pts (+36)
2010: Chelsea 86pts (+71) ; Man Utd 85pts (+58)
2009: Man Utd 90pts (+44) ; Liverpool 86pts (+50)
2008: Man Utd 87pts (+58) ; Chelsea 85pts (+39)
2007: Man Utd 89pts (+56) ; Chelsea 83pts (+40)
2006: Chelsea 91pts (+50) ; Man Utd 83pts (+38)
2005: Chelsea 95pts (+57) ; Arsenal 83pts (+51)
2004: Arsenal 90pts (+47) ; Chelsea 79pts (+37)

AVERAGE: 1st place 88pts ; 2nd place 82pts
 
billyiddo said:
The Fa cup isn't prioritised either until the latter rounds, same as the league cup
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Its prioritised earlier than the League Cup rounds(if at all) and even then looking at the history of winners its still dominated by Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea....
 
harr1984 said:
Its prioritised earlier than the League Cup rounds(if at all) and even then looking at the history of winners its still dominated by Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea....
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Well if your argument is that better teams have more chance of winning trophies then of course I agree - what's easier for the smaller teams is also by the same token easier for the bigger teams - my point was that it's easier to win a cup than it is to challenge for the league (ask the cup winners what they found harder, keeping up the pressure over 38 games or a random run of 4/5/6 games...) which comes back to my initial point last night that whilst on the face of it United have had a more successful season (2 trophies v zero) I would not swap our position for theirs because I think we are the better team with the better manager (and better future) which is borne out by the fact we finished second with 86 points v their 6th with however many points - despite the trophies they have won...
 
billyiddo said:
Well if your argument is that better teams have more chance of winning trophies then of course I agree - what's easier for the smaller teams is also by the same token easier for the bigger teams - my point was that it's easier to win a cup than it is to challenge for the league (ask the cup winners what they found harder, keeping up the pressure over 38 games or a random run of 4/5/6 games...) which comes back to my initial point last night that whilst on the face of it United have had a more successful season (2 trophies v zero) I would not swap our position for theirs because I think we are the better team with the better manager (and better future) which is borne out by the fact we finished second with 86 points v their 6th with however many points - despite the trophies they have won...
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Yes I don't disagree with its easier to win a cup than the league....but this is the point youre missing - WE DIDNT WIN THE LEAGUE. And winning things is the hardest thing to do, whether it be a normal cup or the league. So the fact Man Utd won two trophies means they were more successful than a team who won nothing but came second in the league....
 
harr1984 said:
Yes I don't disagree with its easier to win a cup than the league....but this is the point youre missing - WE DIDNT WIN THE LEAGUE. And winning things is the hardest thing to do, whether it be a normal cup or the league. So the fact Man Utd won two trophies means they were more successful than a team who won nothing but came second in the league....
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No I'm not missing it i just disagree - I think its harder to finish runner up in the premier league than it is to win either the Europa League or League Cup
 
billyiddo said:
No I'm not missing it i just disagree - I think its harder to finish runner up in the premier league than it is to win either the Europa League or League Cup
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But they didnt win either the Europa League or League Cup - Man Utd won both, which is why Im saying they had a more successful season. Can argue all you want about what is harder to do, win both those trophies or come second but success is ultimately about winning things....
 
harr1984 said:
But they didnt win either the Europa League or League Cup - Man Utd won both, which is why Im saying they had a more successful season. Can argue all you want about what is harder to do, win both those trophies or come second but success is ultimately about winning things....
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Like I said earlier we are arguing at cross purposes - trophies equal success so United have had a better season in that respect but they aren't a better team and I wouldn't swap our situation for theirs - is all I am saying
 
billyiddo said:
Like I said earlier we are arguing at cross purposes - trophies equal success so United have had a better season in that respect but they aren't a better team and I wouldn't swap our situation for theirs - is all I am saying
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I agree with all of that. All I said was that Man Utd had a more successful season, and posters wanted to counter argue that. I cant see how anyone could question that statement. Do I think they're better than us? Hell no. But we do need to step up and start getting some silverware in the next season or two....
 
harr1984 said:
Dont think so?

Last fifteen years FA Cup winners (most recent first): Man U,Arsenal,Arsenal,Wigan, Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U, Arsenal, Arsenal.

All the big boys have won it in recent years except us.....
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You miss my point. I am talking about individual games, not competitions.

It is common for the poorer side to win one off games.In a cup competition that is the end of it. Even if you give your all to a cup competition, the likelihood is that you will not win it. A decent side has a decent chance of finishing in the top four and the rewards are greater, a manager would have to be an idiot to prioritise cups unless they had no other options.
 
milo said:
You miss my point. I am talking about individual games, not competitions.

It is common for the poorer side to win one off games.In a cup competition that is the end of it. Even if you give your all to a cup competition, the likelihood is that you will not win it. A decent side has a decent chance of finishing in the top four and the rewards are greater, a manager would have to be an idiot to prioritise cups unless they had no other options.
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Whatever the odds, its still the big boys winning these trophies for the main part - whether its a priority for them or not. I acknowledge that league and cup competitions are a difficult balancing act for the top clubs but we need to start picking up trophies whether it be League championships or domestic cups and I don't really need to expand my point beyond that I hope you can agree....
 
harr1984 said:
Whatever the odds, its still the big boys winning these trophies for the main part - whether its a priority for them or not. I acknowledge that league and cup competitions are a difficult balancing act for the top clubs but we need to start picking up trophies whether it be League championships or domestic cups and I don't really need to expand my point beyond that I hope you can agree....
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I think that Poch has the right approach to the cups and it is the same as the other managers of big clubs. If the team continues at this level, trophies will come.
 
Winning two cups and sixth would be a success for us, it shouldn't be for man Utd. And definitely not after what they've spent in the last 2 seasons.
Either 2nd place or winning those cups would be a good season for us at this stage, so let's not get carried away with the doom and gloom. This season is just another step on our road to bigger things.
 
glasgowspur said:
Winning two cups and sixth would be a success for us, it shouldn't be for man Utd. And definitely not after what they've spent in the last 2 seasons.
Either 2nd place or winning those cups would be a good season for us at this stage, so let's not get carried away with the doom and gloom. This season is just another step on our road to bigger things.
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Tend to agree with most of that, lets hope next season we end up winning something because if not we may lose some players.
 
harr1984 said:
Would it be trading off our future? Mourinho always starts off winning a trophy, which breeds that winning mentality throughout his squad to deliver future trophies. We have a winning mentality to an extent, but in the big games we still flatter to deceive more often than not. I'm not dismissing what has been a great season in the league, but you are remembered for winning trophies, not for achieving second place with the sixth highest wage bill etc....
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Mourinho wins a trophy or two season one, a major one in season two, and by season three everyone's had enough of his nonsense and he's sacked, as we all know - usually after having spent the guts of half a billion pounds. Not the sort of 'winning mentality' I'd want us to build.
 
People say that you only remember trophies, but that's bullsh1t imo. I will remember this team much more than the teams who won league cups for us under Graham and Ramos. I bet older fans remember our '87 team more than George Graham's Spurs too.

Of course we want to win things, but we should also enjoy the journey our team is currently on. My first live game was 1994 and this is easily the best Spurs team I have seen in that time. What other teams have or haven't won doesn't alter that.
 
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