Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[indianspur]

Like I said earlier the team picked last night matched their opponents and were motivated for the occasion - not a lot wrong there.

it's important to rotate at this stage of the season in our circumstance as with EL participation games come thick and fast - especially this year when we have a very tricky group stage with teams we can't take lightly, the fact it was a tight game last night and one we had as much chance of winning as Ar5ena1 justifies that IMV

only Monaco.....the other 2 shouldnt cause any problems even if we rotate

 

[indianspur]

What evidence are we using to throw around the accusation that Kane is knackered?

none appear to be knackered, they all looked fine to me on Sunday against Palace, the question is why rest Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Davies, Alli, Son and Lamela last night but play Chadli, Dier and Kane?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

no, if Poch chose to rest key players in order to give them a rest ahead of the City game, to rotate the squad, and this was the reason for selecting that side last night, then it didnt make sense to select Kane who has been practically ever present this season so far and has led the line up front on his own with all the effort that entails. Its just an observation

And that's fair enough, but if he had rested him (even for that perfectly sensible reason) those who are complaining that he didn't play a strong enough team would be complaining even more. So he can't really win. That was my point rather than whether the reasoning for his team selection was correct or not.

 

[indianspur]

And that's fair enough, but if he had rested him (even for that perfectly sensible reason) those who are complaining that he didn't play a strong enough team would be complaining even more. So he can't really win. That was my point rather than whether the reasoning for his team selection was correct or not.

i know what your saying, i just think the vast majority of fans wanted us to see a proper full strength team out there against Arsanal. Thats the frustration.

 

[Vega]

i know what your saying, i just think the vast majority of fans wanted us to see a proper full strength team out there against Arsanal. Thats the frustration.

I didnt mind some rotation, but i would have felt more positive going into the game if Hugo and the 2 centre backs were playing along with Dier as they have looked so solid as a unit.

Vorm always scares the brick out of me and he of course didn't let me down last night with his performance, it was the same brick one i was expecting.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

i know what your saying, i just think the vast majority of fans wanted us to see a proper full strength team out there against Arsanal. Thats the frustration.

There were basically 4 possible outcomes from last night;
1. Poch plays a strong team and we win = Everyone is happy
2. Poch plays a weakened team and we win = Everyone is very happy
3. Poch plays a weakened team and we lose = 50% people are not happy
4. Poch plays a strong team and we lose = Everyone is not happy
Based off that, the only sensible option if you believe your weakened team is still strong enough to win (which taking into acount Arsenals lineup I think Poch felt it was), then it's the option with the least risk.

I, like pretty much everyone else here would love to have seen us put out a full team and hammer them 5-0. If that had happened I honestly would not have given a fudge what the score was against City.

But I can understand why our manager played a weakened side against another weakened side in a competition where all the big clubs play weakened sides in the early rounds of the competition, even if it was against Arsenal.

 

[billyiddo]

i know what your saying, i just think the vast majority of fans wanted us to see a proper full strength team out there against Arsanal. Thats the frustration.

I would have preferred to see a strong team as well, I just think there's obvious reasoning why we didn't


Edit:Millsy puts it better above

 

[LCLC]

I enjoyed that as well, but i'm looking at things in a positive manner, also i'd say that carrier bag caused our "first team" more problems than Ar5ena1 did to our "half first team" last night

it is what it is, had we won the game I don't think anyone would be criticising the selection, they coach the other guy's too

Again people losing their brick over selection is wrong. Some players needed a rest and the team IMO wasn't bad. However Fazio and Vorm should have been given a chance in a Europa league match rather than last night if Lloris and Toby had to play in one of them.

Poch's subs and lack of urgency to address our imbalance in the second half was what worried me and is what cost us the game (even though both goals were bricky goalkeeping and defending)

 

[diego_maradona]

I hope the majority are still on board with Pochettino and won't use this against him. Ultimately I think there is a big difference in opinion between the vast majority of fans and Pochettino on the way we should have approached this game.

I would have preferred us to have gone 100% myself. I don't care if we got knocked out in the next game, point would be we beat them. It's a game in it's own right, not one of the bigger picture games.

Pochettino will have the teams interest at heart, particularly in the grand scheme of things. This obviously fell lower in his list of priorities. This is where there is a difference of opinion.

If Lloris and Alderweireld played I'd have been happy.

Some of the comments I've read since last night on here and twitter have gone way overboard imo. The same people scream for consistency and attack trigger happy Daniel yet want to get rid and start all over again. We were devoid of any style of play. Pochettino has given the players a bigger idea to hang up and strive for.

 

[indianspur]

There were basically 4 possible outcomes from last night;
1. Poch plays a strong team and we win = Everyone is happy
2. Poch plays a weakened team and we win = Everyone is very happy
3. Poch plays a weakened team and we lose = 50% people are not happy
4. Poch plays a strong team and we lose = Everyone is not happy
Based off that, the only sensible option if you believe your weakened team is still strong enough to win (which taking into acount Arsenals lineup I think Poch felt it was), then it's the option with the least risk.

I, like pretty much everyone else here would love to have seen us put out a full team and hammer them 5-0. If that had happened I honestly would not have given a fudge what the score was against City.

But I can understand why our manager played a weakened side against another weakened side in a competition where all the big clubs play weakened sides in the early rounds of the competition, even if it was against Ar5ena1.

yes, winning the NLD is all that matters, strong team or weakened team, 1-0 or 5-0, a league cup game or PL game.....however, you give yourself the best chance of winning by selecting your best players.

It doesnt matter that Arsanal chose not to select their best team. i think after winning PL titles, Fa cups, going unbeaten a whole season, CL every season, Wenger is able to field weakened teams in cup competitions, even in an NLD

Poch is still building a career, even more so at Tottenham where he is at the start of the journey. We are a very young team, we have players that need as many minutes as possible together to develop a rhythm and understanding, we are in relative good form, but more importantly its an NLD at home, I think many are wondering why Poch chose now to field such a weakened team

yeah, if in 10 years time after Spurs under Poch have won a league title, a couple of Fa cups, and had 4 or 5 CL campaigns and we were drawn away to Arsanal in the Wonga league cup then he might be understood in fielding a weakened team

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

yes, winning the NLD is all that matters, strong team or weakened team, 1-0 or 5-0, a league cup game or PL game.....however, you give yourself the best chance of winning by selecting your best players.

It doesnt matter that Arsanal chose not to select their best team. i think after winning PL titles, Fa cups, going unbeaten a whole season, CL every season, Wenger is able to field weakened teams in cup competitions, even in an NLD

Poch is still building a career, even more so at Tottenham where he is at the start of the journey. We are a very young team, we have players that need as many minutes as possible together to develop a rhythm and understanding, we are in relative good form, but more importantly its an NLD at home, I think many are wondering why Poch chose now to field such a weakened team

yeah, if in 10 years time after Spurs under Poch have won a league title, a couple of Fa cups, and had 4 or 5 CL campaigns and we were drawn away to Arsanal in the Wonga league cup then he might be understood in fielding a weakened team

All the above is based off the assumption that the strong team would have won though.

If it had lost, the backlash he would be getting here and in the press would be ridiculous.

Again, I don't want to sound like one of these folks who doesn't value trophies. I do, in fact I hate the modern day attitude of 'sure it's only the League Cup or Europa (and even FA Cup that has been creeping in recently). But I can understand why he picked the team he picked.

Rodgers is under big pressure at Liverpool, LVG is trying to build his career at United, but if those two had met I guarentee you would have seen the same thing.

Basically, football is brick now and deep down, no one really cares about what the fans think.

 

[indianspur]

All the above is based off the assumption that the strong team would have won though.

If it had lost, the backlash he would be getting here and in the press would be ridiculous.

Again, I don't want to sound like one of these folks who doesn't value trophies. I do, in fact I hate the modern day attitude of 'sure it's only the League Cup or Europa (and even FA Cup that has been creeping in recently). But I can understand why he picked the team he picked.

Rodgers is under big pressure at Liverpool, LVG is trying to build his career at United, but if those two had met I guarentee you would have seen the same thing.

Basically, football is **** now.

the strong team would have given us a better chance, thats the point

 

[indianspur]

I hope the majority are still on board with Pochettino and won't use this against him. Ultimately I think there is a big difference in opinion between the vast majority of fans and Pochettino on the way we should have approached this game.

I would have preferred us to have gone 100% myself. I don't care if we got knocked out in the next game, point would be we beat them. It's a game in it's own right, not one of the bigger picture games.

Pochettino will have the teams interest at heart, particularly in the grand scheme of things. This obviously fell lower in his list of priorities. This is where there is a difference of opinion.

If Lloris and Alderweireld played I'd have been happy.

Some of the comments I've read since last night on here and twitter have gone way overboard imo. The same people scream for consistency and attack trigger happy Daniel yet want to get rid and start all over again. We were devoid of any style of play. Pochettino has given the players a bigger idea to hang up and strive for.

 

[StephenH]

All the above is based off the assumption that the strong team would have won though.

If it had lost, the backlash he would be getting here and in the press would be ridiculous.

Again, I don't want to sound like one of these folks who doesn't value trophies. I do, in fact I hate the modern day attitude of 'sure it's only the League Cup or Europa (and even FA Cup that has been creeping in recently). But I can understand why he picked the team he picked.

Rodgers is under big pressure at Liverpool, LVG is trying to build his career at United, but if those two had met I guarentee you would have seen the same thing.

Basically, football is **** now and deep down, no one really cares about what the fans think.

Have you listened to some of the fans?

 

[parklane1]

I have always said that my biggest gripe with Levy is the number of managers we go through and I want to see a manager given more then a couple of seasons to build something. So I support Poch and I hope he is still for a while yet ( because unless we get stability at the top we will never progress). However I was disappointed with him and the team he picked last night ( 7 back up players) and it has nothing to do with the fact it was the Arse, it was a trophy we should be trying to win and to send out a weakened side against anyone in a cup game (imo) is wrong.

I really hope that in the two trophys we are still to play in we send out our strongest side in ALL games, screw this preoccupation in finishing among the losers ( top four) lets try and win something.

 

[markysimmo]

If we play our full team we win that game last night they were garbage and it was only silly mistakes from players who don't play that cost us

I really like Poch but I don't think he gets what a NLD really is, cuptie or not you play your best team no matter what

 

[SUIYHA]

Somebody should fit a camera above the ticket office on the corner of the High Road and Park Lane, and show everybody on the playing and management teams the footage of when the Arsenal escort comes around so that they can see what it means to the fans. It is not acceptable to lose at home to Arsenal. Not ever. And especially not a weakened side. They rested players? Great - we should have had all the more chance of spanking them.

I get the rotating the squad thing. Really, I do. I said before the game that giving a 19 year old his third 90 minutes in six days and fourth in 10 days would be a big risk. There were perfectly justifiable reasons for starting Chadli, Carroll and Townsend, even if I personally wouldn't have done so. You have to make players feel like they're involved to keep squad morale, so a big cup game represents a good chance to show those players that they're valued.

However, the decisions to pick Vorm and Fazio were farcical. These two are not "squad rotation" players. They are backup players. Nothing more. They certainly should not be exposed to games like the North London Derby if their superiors are available. Fielding them in a game like this consists of fielding a weakened side, simple as. And there is no excuse to pick a weakened side for a derby.

Somebody called it well on twitter last night that Poch has thrown away a lot of good will amongst the Spurs fan base. Aside from a few macarons who moan that he doesn't have the credentials to manage Tottenham, he was generally very well liked amongst our fan base. I was 100% behind him prior to last night. I like what he's done with the squad, the way he's got us playing far better football than either of his immediate predecessors, on a limited budget, with hungry young players coming through. But last night was an extremely poor error of judgement for a very big match. And you can only get away with so many of those...

Redknapp infuriated people in 2010 when he did it, but he at least had the excuse that we were playing in the Champions League that season, and then managed to redeem himself by beating Arsenal at the Emirates the next month. Over to you Poch.

 

[StephenH]

If we play our full team we win that game last night they were garbage and it was only silly mistakes from players who don't play that cost us

I really like Poch but I don't think he gets what a NLD really is, cuptie or not you play your best team no matter what

He may well have played his best team! We don't know who he had to choose from

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

If we had lost 4-5 last night i could have understood the criticism. However walked into office today and all the neutrals said we deserved to win.

I understand the frustration with Fazio and Vorm however
I have seen plenty of fans talk about how Fazio is our best defender and we look more solid when he plays, and he is a beast in the air (he was against Giroud last night). I completely disagree think he offers nothing and is a liability on the ball. However not sure where those people are now and why they are not leaping to the defence of him. (ironic as i dont think he can jump)
Vorm i thought was the best backup keeper in the league when we got him, however last night was one mistake too many.

Im defending Poch on this as although id have wanted a stronger team, the team he picked outplayed arsenal for large parts, and Townsend, Eriksen, Kane, Rose, Trippier all deserved a chance or needed game time.

Remember it was only this time last year we played a reserve team in the cups. Except they became the first team, so you have to try players out at some point. Saying do it in another game not this one, ok so when do you try them out? If we had won and pulled out West Ham in next round, the same argument would have happened, and so on and so on

I said before the issue was we had to go full strength in last 3 games due to slow start, im not sure if we had rested players v palace and lost in preparation for last night Poch would have been applauded.

It does feel like people have been waiting to get the knives out for Poch and have seen an opportunity.

 

[indianspur]

He may well have played his best team! We don't know who he had to choose from