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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Thanks milo, that is a very interesting read. I don't actually agree with him on a couple of points. Firstly, that players read all about opposition runs and tactics and where they should be and analyse things... players in the main are fairly thick and self centred and would rather be sexting or joking around. Did you read that excerpt the other day from Jimmy Bullard's autobiography about training with Fabio Capello on England duty? Jimmy and David Bentley took it in turns to call Fabio Capello "Postman Pat" to his face as loud as possible. Strange how they didn't win more caps?

Secondly, he says that putting someone on the post is not very useful, better to put someone in the 6 yard box. I strongly disagree as there are 10 outfield players and 1 should be on the post.



What if Sky Sports offered me Andy Gray's job? Not a chance. Let me tell you something, football pundits are universally despised by players and not just because at some point in the past they would have been on the receiving end of criticism themselves.

It doesn't matter what you've done in the game, where you've played, what you might have won or how much money you earned – pundits are held in the same regard by players as female assistant referees once were at Sky.

And while on that subject, prepare to be disappointed. While I found the whole episode with Gray and Richard Keys at Molineux cringeworthy, inside the world of football nobody is particularly bothered. Don't interpret that as evidence that players are condoning Gray and Keys for their behaviour. It's more a case that most of my team-mates would have no interest in listening to anything pundits say in the first place.

There's no obvious reason why those sat on the sofa are thought of in such low terms, but it may have something to do with a sense that they are going against the inner sanctum that we pretend we are a part of. Perhaps, subconsciously, it tugs at those still playing, who realise the ex-players know things about them that they probably wish they didn't.

Their new position of influence over millions of people is a little uncomfortable for some, I'm sure, and their failure to go the extra mile when analysing matches can also grate.

Switch to our world and the level of detail that goes into games still, to this day, amazes me. Every player has his own script, what to do, when to do it, information on the player he's up against, including weight, height, age, strengths, weaknesses, even what that opponent is likely to do when the ball comes to him in certain situations. We memorise every single set piece, where we have to stand, run and end up. We even memorise this for the other players so we know where everyone else will be at any given time.

You know that pass when you say to yourself: "How did he spot that?" Often he didn't need to; he knew the player would be there because, the night before in the hotel, he read about the runs he would be making.

It's exactly the same pass after which sometimes you might find yourself saying: "Who was that to?" The receiving player either forgot to be there or was taken out of the game by a tactical manoeuvre by his opposite number.

Football at this level is very chess-like, maybe not to those outside of football but certainly to those inside. I sometimes wonder whether it's more enjoyable playing lower down the leagues. After all, who wants to play chess?

With top-level football being so complex, it is very difficult to deconstruct a live game within a couple of minutes of it being over, and because of this the "analysis" is usually reduced to goals and individual performance. But the fact that many pundits don't even try to scratch beneath the surface, despite knowing what it takes to win a match at this level, annoys me. It's the trivialisation of what we do by people that we used to call our own and, more importantly, deprives the viewer of some very interesting ***-bits that would, I feel, add to the entertainment.

Anyone can navigate a giant iPad, sliding faces of famous players around with their pinkie while throwing out phrases like "Third man run" and other such rubbish. What particularly riles me is when you hear a pundit or co-commentator say something like, "I can't understand, Martin, why Drogba is not on the post here. That header would have fallen to him and if I'm Petr Cech I'm saying: 'Go on son, clear that off the line for me!'"

The fact is corners are routinely cleared by a man stationed on the six-yard line, exactly where Chelsea position Didier Drogba. If somebody scores inside that post it is for no other reason than a player having lost his man. That is the mistake. If there is a player on the post he will clear one, possibly two shots off the line a season. If that same player stands on the six-yard line he will probably clear 100 corners away over the course of the season.

The worst thing, though, is when this dross gets into popular culture and my friends start saying stupid things to me like, "We should have a man on the post, our manager doesn't know what he's doing", just because it sounds like the right thing to say. It's such an easy way of analysing that it infuriates me. It's lazy and it takes you, the viewer, for a fool. But, then again, Sky is an expert in creating a villain.

Really?
 
Putting players on the post works at amateur level. At the top level it's going a man down as an insurance policy. As he says in the article, it might save you a couple goals a season but will cost more by having that hole in the defence. Your better off getting heads and bodies in the way so they can't get a header on goal in the first place, and then they'll have to pull it out of their **** to place
 
We memorise every single set piece, where we have to stand, run and end up. We even memorise this for the other players so we know where everyone else will be at any given time...

Well, now we know he doesn't play for Spurs, anyway.
 
Just expanding on my "really?" Post and in reference to your proof of footballers being so thick that they can't read about or analyse tactics, as someone who went through and graduated from university, I can testify that it's amazing how stupid/childlike the behaviour can get if you get a load of young lads together, no matter how intelligent they are.

Maybe this is the great British class divide rearing its head again, tabloid stories about Prince Harry cheating on his girlfriend, smoking weed and partying in a Nazi uniform = he's such a rogue.

Working class lads doing the same = thick
 
I don't think that's true. I specifically remember the thread where people were asked what's the realistic expectation and i think 5th was ahead in the poll (i said i would be happy with 6th and a good brand of football).

Yeah i don't mean the majority but there was defo a sizeable amount as i remember having plenty of opposition to the idea that 6th and team progress would be a good season.
 
Thanks milo, that is a very interesting read. I don't actually agree with him on a couple of points. Firstly, that players read all about opposition runs and tactics and where they should be and analyse things... players in the main are fairly thick and self centred and would rather be sexting or joking around. Did you read that excerpt the other day from Jimmy Bullard's autobiography about training with Fabio Capello on England duty? Jimmy and David Bentley took it in turns to call Fabio Capello "Postman Pat" to his face as loud as possible. Strange how they didn't win more caps?

Is this REALLY true?? Surely not :eek:
 
Just expanding on my "really?" Post and in reference to your proof of footballers being so thick that they can't read about or analyse tactics, as someone who went through and graduated from university, I can testify that it's amazing how stupid/childlike the behaviour can get if you get a load of young lads together, no matter how intelligent they are.

Maybe this is the great British class divide rearing its head again, tabloid stories about Prince Harry cheating on his girlfriend, smoking weed and partying in a Nazi uniform = he's such a rogue.

Working class lads doing the same = thick

I think the right term for the majority of footballers probably isn't thick but ignorant and unrealistic applies to so many.

I remember neil ruddock interviewing and saying after he retired he got sick and did not know that you had to call a doctor as he had never had to before and rung liverpool to ask what to do not living in the real world syndrome.
 
I think the right term for the majority of footballers probably isn't thick but ignorant and unrealistic applies to so many.

I remember neil ruddock interviewing and saying after he retired he got sick and did not know that you had to call a doctor as he had never had to before and rung liverpool to ask what to do not living in the real world syndrome.

Yeah I think that is a better description they're taking out of school and a normal social environment at a very early age but they're not thick
 
The target is the same as its always been either top 4 OR really good football. Avb didn't achieve either of those. Sherwood neither. Redknapp at times did both.
 
Yeah I think that is a better description they're taking out of school and a normal social environment at a very early age but they're not thick

On the evidence of the season just gone I think most of our defence would beg to differ.
 
Yeah I think that is a better description they're taking out of school and a normal social environment at a very early age but they're not thick

On the other hand though they definitely are not the sharpest tools in your box either le saux apart and look at the **** he got :D
 
The target is the same as its always been either top 4 OR really good football. Avb didn't achieve either of those. Sherwood neither. Redknapp at times did both.

What if the footballs quite good but we are in say 12th at xmas ?

Are we still happy ?
 
Is this REALLY true?? Surely not :eek:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Bentley was also my partner in crime when it came to taking the p*** out of Mr Capello. I remember looking at the gaffer on my first day and thinking, ‘I can’t believe how much he looks like Postman Pat; it’s him!’ The only thing that was missing was the black and white cat.

Because I was new to that whole environment, I didn’t want to make too much of my discovery so I did it on the sly and used it as an icebreaker, letting some of the boys know that we had a TV personality running the show.

Bentley obviously loved it — ‘Wa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!’ — and when we were on the team coach, we sat at the back and started singing the Postman Pat theme tune.

A few of the boys joined in — I think Rio, Ashley Cole and Jermaine Jenas might have had a quiet little sing-along — but most of the other dry lunches weren’t really up for it.

Another daft scheme Bents and I came up with was seeing who could say ‘Postman Pat’ as loudly as possible within earshot of the gaffer.

I’d walk past Capello and say ‘Postman Pat’ out of the corner of my mouth, but Bentley took it to another level when he would walk straight up to the boss and scream ‘Postman Pat!’ in his face before adding ‘And his black and white cat!’ for good measure.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Bentley was also my partner in crime when it came to taking the p*** out of Mr Capello. I remember looking at the gaffer on my first day and thinking, ‘I can’t believe how much he looks like Postman Pat; it’s him!’ The only thing that was missing was the black and white cat.

Because I was new to that whole environment, I didn’t want to make too much of my discovery so I did it on the sly and used it as an icebreaker, letting some of the boys know that we had a TV personality running the show.

Bentley obviously loved it — ‘Wa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!’ — and when we were on the team coach, we sat at the back and started singing the Postman Pat theme tune.

A few of the boys joined in — I think Rio, Ashley Cole and Jermaine Jenas might have had a quiet little sing-along — but most of the other dry lunches weren’t really up for it.

Another daft scheme Bents and I came up with was seeing who could say ‘Postman Pat’ as loudly as possible within earshot of the gaffer.

I’d walk past Capello and say ‘Postman Pat’ out of the corner of my mouth, but Bentley took it to another level when he would walk straight up to the boss and scream ‘Postman Pat!’ in his face before adding ‘And his black and white cat!’ for good measure.

Wow! If this shows Bentley in his true light, is it any wonder why he has effectively retired?
What a sh!t and unprofessional attitude. Imagine doing that to your boss' face??
No harm in having 'banter' amongst the lads, but after doing that was he surprised he wasn't picked again?
I wonder if he would have gone up to Harry's face and screemed saggy-faced bleep or screemed in his face that he looked like droopy or something?

Maybe he would be filed under the 'thick' footballers category
 
What if the footballs quite good but we are in say 12th at xmas ?

Are we still happy ?

The football will hardly be that good if we find ourselves in 12th at xmas. If that happens there will plenty of grumbling about backing the wrong horse and there will a lot of pressure on the manager. For our squad 12th would constituent failure in Levy's eyes.
 
The football will hardly be that good if we find ourselves in 12th at xmas. If that happens there will plenty of grumbling about backing the wrong horse and there will a lot of pressure on the manager. For our squad 12th would constituent failure in Levy's eyes.

Indeed, people keep likening Poch to the Rodgers appointment at Liverpool and using the 'Liverpool gave Rodgers time, and look what that done for them' when in actual fact the situation is very different. Rodgers inherited a club who had finished 8th in the season previous. He never finished any lower than that during his building of the liverpool team that ended up 2nd this year. I think Poch will be treated the same way, although with a little more grace given. In his first season, I wouldn't expect too many compaints if we finish 7th (maybe even 8th), but year on year we have to show genuine signs of improvement. I think this is the key to him keeping his job.
 
It seemed to have a decent voice on here pretty much said that CL qualification was sherwoods goal, by the yard stick you would think that it was Poch's as well.

Well, you'd think that, but from what I'm hearing now, nobody could or should have had any expectations of Sherwood in his 5-6 month stint then? No experience, no time to prepare, experiment, implement, get players in, or ship out, no off season or pre-season, etc. In any event, if we ever compare Poch to a 'clueless idiot' and use that as a yard stick, then we will know we are in trouble, no?

This stuff about performance and philosophies and coherent systems and styles and progress on the field.....:-k First off, we are basing all that faith on basically one 8th place Soton season. It seems a pretty thin pretext to me with not a lot to fall back on if things go awry at THFC, where its a whole other kettle of fish. This guys style will surely be different, and if some get a woody from that, fair play.

But to me that stuff is a gray are. Whats coherent to me, may not be to you, or someone else, or at least less so. To me as an outsider looking in, I've seen us play what I thought was in a coherent way and lose, and in other games we didn't seem coherent and won. If we needed 12 pts from 4 games to make CL then I won't care how we do it, as long as we do, and I doubt Levy would care either. Some managers have made 'progress on the field' and were fired by their clubs anyway. It seems subjective to me, whereas points/position is not. At times its kinda like reaching for positives in failures, and I get a bit nervous given our recent barren history. Some managers are afforded a lot more subjectives than others and this guy sounds like one of them, at least right now anyway.
 
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Indeed, people keep likening Poch to the Rodgers appointment at Liverpool and using the 'Liverpool gave Rodgers time, and look what that done for them' when in actual fact the situation is very different. Rodgers inherited a club who had finished 8th in the season previous. He never finished any lower than that during his building of the liverpool team that ended up 2nd this year. I think Poch will be treated the same way, although with a little more grace given. In his first season, I wouldn't expect too many compaints if we finish 7th (maybe even 8th), but year on year we have to show genuine signs of improvement. I think this is the key to him keeping his job.

I don't think an 8th place finish will cut the mustard with Levy to be honest. CL qualification has to be the target for Pochettino as it has been for his predecessors.

I'm generally an optimistic when it comes to Spurs (before it all comes crashing down) but I can't buy into the positivity with Pochettino. I just think he was the wrong appointment for us and I can't help thinking that this season may end up seeing us finish in a worse position than last. My bar for him is low so everything he achieves is bonus in my eyes.
 
Kind of see what you mean, and agreed

It seemed to have a decent voice on here pretty much said that CL qualification was sherwoods goal, by the yard stick you would think that it was Poch's as well

I dont think he will come anywhere near that in his first season and i dont expect him to...he'll flirt with it for a while , the talk will always be about it somewhere in the background but i doubt the true belief is that he will pull this off in his first year

I say this before we have had a chance to analyse his signings....actually no, even with new signings i dont expect him to make that mark...

Disagree. Sherwood got the job in extraordinary circumstances, mid season when all our other targets were unavailable. He wasn't quite a caretaker, but as illustrated by his 18 month contract that had a "get out" clause come the summer he wasn't quite a permanent choice either.

In those extraordinary circumstances he was essentially only going to keep his job if he performed extraordinary well, more or less defined as top 4.

The Pochettino hiring is very different. Amongst many potential, and available, candidates he was chosen as the best option after careful consideration. He was given a 5 year contract (although probably with some "get out" clauses. He's clearly a permanent manager. As we have higher expectations that he will do well long term the short term requirements are not as restrictive.
 
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