Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Millsy_Yiddo]

This club needs a revolution, with the rumors that came out at the weekend now wonder he is struggling to implement his philosophy if some of the senior players are just refusing to work that system. He is the boss and he should stick to it, if people that worked for me started refusing to implement my ideas and work plans they would be out the door.

Where did these rumours come from? Not seen anything.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We have already been there until very recently.

It feels like we're trying t break something first before fixing it, rather than taking the opportunity to tweak it as it develops. In simple terms it's a revolution rather than an evolution and for me it's a step too far too quickly
It may work out very beneficial long term but if it doesn't then it's a lot of time and more importantly money wasted yet again of following a system....

It also strikes me as making the game far more complicated that it needs to be wen your reliant on a system rather than on talent, ability and adaptability

But we really have no alternative now IMO other than sticking with whatever the plan is

The club has been rotten at the core since the late 80s/early 90s. Weak minded and with misplaced entitlement. Always the victims, never our fault. We desperately need to root that out and install some resilience.

I don't think you can really say that we've either been regularly challenging for trophies or finishing in the top 4.

I also don't think it would be revolution verses evolution. In all llikelyhood, Poch would hold on to most of the starting 11 if he was to 'tear up' the squad. But even if he did, why employ him as manager if we don't want to take the risk that he might be wrong in the long term?

2 CL qualifications in about 50 years says you are right.

I think Poch feels he can do something with most of the squad. Paulinho, Chiriches and Dembele are probably beyond help/not his kind of players, and there are question marks about Kaboul, Ade and Lennon. But beyond that I'd see the rest of the squad as perfectly ripe (mentally and attributes wise) for moulding by Poch.

GB, not sure Hull always had 10 men behind the ball. Even if they did, you need to have a plan for such things. If we had put in that performance last season, under either manager, how would it have been received, and would you have been critical at all? Got out of jail, 10 men was reason we won, Hull should have been 3-0 up, Eriksen saved his ass, and such like?

I'm not sure the sending off changed things too much. Hull went at us ultra-hard from the start because they knew our confidence was low. They were running out of steam before they went down to 10.

I just saw it as a typical battling away win. We've been putting in performances like that for much of the last decade - usually (from my compiled memories) with Keane getting the late winner.

Where did these rumours come from? Not seen anything.

Jason Burt in the Telegraph Sunday morning IIRC. It's tucked into an article about Baldini (the one saying him and Poch get on, and it was Baldini's impetus to recruit Mitchell).

Burt said that a couple of senior problems were having issues, which was then followed 8 hours later by Kaboul, Capoue and Ade vanishing from the squad.

 

[Notmegov]

I don't think Poch is struggling making his system work, I think he is struggling making any system work with this lot of players.

Sherwood said the same when we got trounced by the big boys and won a lot of games in similar vain to Villa and Hull. The players have mentality issues. And maybe ability issues. If he needs to complete re-form the squad. Sell a few, bring in a few and promote some kids. Have this season and next to get us working. Fine. So be it.

This

 

[Notmegov]

Where did these rumours come from? Not seen anything.

a bit of ITK from some where, make of it what you will.

From Galahad the gnome

A parchment arrives containing some snippets from the diminutive one. The information is not uniformly positive, so if you dislike reading negative information, please close this thread now.


There was a confrontation after the Stoke game between Adebayor and Kane. Most of the team sided with Kane, but Kaboul and a couple of others didn't. Kaboul then went to see the manager to voice "the squads opinion" on Kane and his supporters. It was clear to MP that Adebayor, Lennon and Kaboul do not speak for the rest of the squad. The younger players are not happy with the way the three most senior players have been behaving, training and playing.

MP bitterly disappointed with more than half a dozen of the squad who have decided the extra hard work they are being asked to do hasn't paid off, so they won't bother to do it. He wanted to give them time to buy into his plans, but they have chosen not to do so. Today's team selection is a reflection of this reality.

Adebayor and Lennon are refusing to accept a move. They've told MP that they don't care whether they play or not. They'll stay at home, train with the reserves or sit on the bench, as long as they collect their wages.

Lennon only made the bench today because of the injuries to Townsend and Chadli.

Unsurprisingly it's proving most challenging to move many of our players expect Vlad to go permanent, and Paulinho on loan. Both to Italy and both to top Italian sides. Inter showing the most interest in Paulinho as things stand.

Baldini suggested we hire Paul Mitchell. MP supported this idea. Mitchell is seen as someone with the potential to become a DOF in the long term. He wants to 'apprentice' for a few years with someone experienced in transfers, dealing with agents and players, etc.

Each member of the triumvirate will have control over their own area of the transfer process. MP will decide on the roles he needs for his tactical schemes. Mitchell will then identify players (both young players and established players) for those roles, and will recommend them to MP, who will either approve or reject each of those recommendations. For players that get MP's green light, Baldini will go out and try to sign them. MP trusts Mitchell explicitly.

Moreno and Rodriguez (subject to full recovery) are still the top two on the list for January, although Mitchell has already identified other possibilities for MP to look at.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Surprised about Lennon in that little group, always seems like a hard working team player to me?

I noticed that erikson didn't seem overly happy at the end of the game considering he'd just hit a winner in the last minute, lamela went to lift him up and he kind of pushed him away with an unhappy look on his face, then later he was walking to acknowledge the away support and was speaking to vertonghen, again with a very down look on his face.

May just be nothing, or was ****ed off how badly we played and knew we got out of jail, but still..

 

[SpurMeUp]

I don't think Poch is struggling making his system work, I think he is struggling making any system work with this lot of players.

Sherwood said the same when we got trounced by the big boys and won a lot of games in similar vain to Villa and Hull. The players have mentality issues. And maybe ability issues. If he needs to complete re-form the squad. Sell a few, bring in a few and promote some kids. Have this season and next to get us working. Fine. So be it.

I think he's struggling because he hasn't chosen his first 11. We have too many similar players. Many fans knew the things he's finding out with trial and error. If Poch can now build around Dembele-Mason in the centre, with Verts and Fazio behind them, then that's a start. Quite where Eriksen and Lamela play is an issue because neither is strong defensively. If they are played wide, then they need to be disciplined defending.

I think choosing a consistent team and improving it, while playing in the EL, has been and still is the biggest challenge for Poch. He wants to be fair, and give players a fair chance, but he needs to selfishly chose the best team and galvanise them into a dependable unit. You can't do that when the personnel is constantly changing.

 

[glasgowspur]

Said for a while there is problem in the camp, eriksen and Ade on don't get on. Can't remember the last time ericksen passed to ade!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Jurgen the German]

Are you describing Capoue there when you talk about the oil tanker?!?

As usual I disagree with your thoughts (unless you really were describing Capoue - in which case I agree 100% )

Firstly we were not previously heading in completely the wrong direction. Under Sherwood we were showing some signs of progress (especially in terms of an attacking unit). Yes we also did some things poorly, but we had clearly improved upon what went immediately before.

I agree that you expect a bump when you put the steering wheel on full lock, but how long should we expect that 'bump' to last? It seems to me that we have had the bump but we are still just as off course as we were previously (perhaps even more off course) Have we put the steering wheel on full lock and then kept it there?... Yes we have a different course to our previous one, but is it just a different wrong course?

We were not 'alright' yesterday at all. For the first half we were both outworked and outplayed. Hull had a real purpose when attacking and also when defending, they pressed us high up the pitch and looked to exploit our weaknesses out wide. Admittedly we played some nice pretty football at times, but it was all around the halfway line getting us nowhere in terms of threat to Hull's goal. Then when we turned over the ball as we did quite regularly (including in some terrible positions) we looked like we could concede at any time. We could've easily gone in at half time 3-0 down and it would've been deserved and game over.

I didn't think Hull put "10 men behind the ball" from the 8th minute. I think you saying this is disrespectful to the way they controlled the game in the first half. Instead I would say that in that first half Hull played with determination, shape and purpose. Yes when they conceded possession they quickly got numbers behind the ball, you talk about this as though it is a bad thing? I think it shows a team that are playing to their manager's instructions and a team that have a game-plan. Personally I wish that we would also put so much effort into getting a good defensive shape when we lose the ball. I have no idea if we do not do this because we are not told to or whether it is because the players simply can't be bothered?.... I think either reason isn't a good endorsement of our manager.

Just as against Villa, yesterday's game completely turned on another (fortunate) red card. It was only after this that we got our full backs forward and also after this that Hull stopped pressing us and dropped off and gave us time and space to play. I agree that from this point we did well. I think this shows that we have a number of players who can play lovely football but we have hardly any players who are prepared to fight for that 'right to play'.

I also find it interesting that yesterday we saw two games between your classic (as you would call them) "pie and chips managers" in Warnock and Bruce, against two new school "paella and tapas" managers. Clearly in both games the old school managers sent their teams out with the better gameplan - in fact I'm not sure that either of the new school managers actually had a gameplan?

Can't remember which poster said it, but he said teams don't park the bus against us anymore, they drive the bus straight through us.

 

[par_18]

How **** is Ade, get him out asap. Miserable fu k.

 

[Robspur12]

Agree with your previous post, right now, all we have is hope that Poch is the man, nothing is showing.

To me, the big indicators of if Poch is anywhere close to being the man for us comes with his next few team selections
- Team has to be build around Eriksen
- Kane needs to start, I would play him in every game, he's young, eager and in form
- Lennon needs to play, we need at least on e true winger on the pitch to address both our width/pace issues
- Kaboul/Capoue/Ade/Dier need to stay away from first team for now

If we see the same old same old, revert to what hasn't been working, then he is going to fail.

Agree almost. We also need Walker back to give much needed pace across the back 4, we need to settle on the back 4 (injuries allowing) I think we should settle on Fazio and Verts, we need to upgrade on squad player Mason I'm afraid (Schneiderlin would be perfect but if not someone of that ilk) and have a proper defensive midfielder playing alongside, not sure yet if that is Stambouli but it is not Dembele - what a waste of a good player, shame we didn't get Alex Song in the summer, maybe Levy would not break the wage structure. Finally we need Soldado and Kane to play together. If the rumours about Ade starting trouble again ( and they only are rumours) I cannot see him coming back into the team. On the another note while Capoue labours around our team how much better did Hudd and Livermore look yesterday?

Finney and Raziel there are quite a few examples, other than Ferguson, of managers who have had rocky periods, have been backed and come out better - Moyes at Everton, Allardyce at Wham, Pardew at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Ok they are not winning managers like Wenger, Mourinho etc and most posters on this board will think I am crazy for comparing us to their teams but that is roughly where I believe we are at the moment with this squad. We are certainly not Utd Arsenal or even Liverpool. The squad is far from perfect we need some high quality additions in my opinion Poch has a holding job to do until he can get some of those players in; but agree he has to do that holding job better.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Agree almost. We also need Walker back to give much needed pace across the back 4, we need to settle on the back 4 (injuries allowing) I think we should settle on Fazio and Verts, we need to upgrade on squad player Mason I'm afraid (Schneiderlin would be perfect but if not someone of that ilk) and have a proper defensive midfielder playing alongside, not sure yet if that is Stambouli but it is not Dembele - what a waste of a good player, shame we didn't get Alex Song in the summer, maybe Levy would not break the wage structure. Finally we need Soldado and Kane to play together. If the rumours about Ade starting trouble again ( and they only are rumours) I cannot see him coming back into the team. On the another note while Capoue labours around our team how much better did Hudd and Livermore look yesterday?

Finney and Raziel there are quite a few examples, other than Ferguson, of managers who have had rocky periods, have been backed and come out better - Moyes at Everton, Allardyce at Wham, Pardew at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Ok they are not winning managers like Wenger, Mourinho etc and most posters on this board will think I am crazy for comparing us to their teams but that is roughly where I believe we are at the moment with this squad. We are certainly not Utd Arsenal or even Liverpool. The squad is far from perfect we need some high quality additions in my opinion Poch has a holding job to do until he can get some of those players in; but agree he has to do that holding job better.

And most famously our best two ever managers - Nicholson (finished 18th in his first season) and Burkinshaw (relegated in his first season)

 

[Jordinho]

Moyes at Everton, Allardyce at Wham, Pardew at Saudi Sportswashing Machine

They have fluctuations in form. All clubs are too good to go down (West Ham only just until now), but none are good enough for top 4 (Everton managed it once, but that was pre-City and we had only just started our climb back). True level is upper mid table.

The form of individual players has a big impact, as does transfers. Occasionally you get poor periods.

 

[Modric THFC]

Agree almost. We also need Walker back to give much needed pace across the back 4, we need to settle on the back 4 (injuries allowing) I think we should settle on Fazio and Verts, we need to upgrade on squad player Mason I'm afraid (Schneiderlin would be perfect but if not someone of that ilk) and have a proper defensive midfielder playing alongside, not sure yet if that is Stambouli but it is not Dembele - what a waste of a good player, shame we didn't get Alex Song in the summer, maybe Levy would not break the wage structure. Finally we need Soldado and Kane to play together. If the rumours about Ade starting trouble again ( and they only are rumours) I cannot see him coming back into the team. On the another note while Capoue labours around our team how much better did Hudd and Livermore look yesterday?

Finney and Raziel there are quite a few examples, other than Ferguson, of managers who have had rocky periods, have been backed and come out better - Moyes at Everton, Allardyce at Wham, Pardew at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Ok they are not winning managers like Wenger, Mourinho etc and most posters on this board will think I am crazy for comparing us to their teams but that is roughly where I believe we are at the moment with this squad. We are certainly not Utd Arsenal or even Liverpool. The squad is far from perfect we need some high quality additions in my opinion Poch has a holding job to do until he can get some of those players in; but agree he has to do that holding job better.

Saachi at Milan. Came in from nowhere. His Serie B didnt do much but bet Milan in the Coppa Italia. New owner Silvio Berlusconi spotted something and appointed him as Milan boss.
He introduced a brand new system got rid of the sweeper, played 442 with a high line and lots of pressing.
Had a few bad results, dressing room revolted after they were knocked out of Europe.
Berlusconi came in and told them he was his manager and he'll still be here next year because he appointed him as for you guys I'm not so sure.
And that was the end of that. They went on to win the European Cup twice in a row before he went off to the national team.

 

[Raziel]

Everyone named as made it through rough patches tended to already have a lot of experience prior (not their first year, in first big gig), or was so long ago, not really relevant.

Think with the hiring of Paul Mitchell, looks like club is backing Poch, lets hope it pays off.

Do find articles like this -> http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/spurs-players-struggling-connect-mauricio-4700445 concerning however

 

[metalgear]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfsPh?...ium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tottenham-hotspur

Pochettino began his reply by stating: “They don’t have a manager, they have a head coach. I am a head coach.”

Asked to explain the distinction, Pochettino suggested that his role in Tottenham’s hierarchy is less wide-ranging and more specific than his previous job at Southampton.
“I think it’s very different,” he said. “If you are the manager, you decide many things about the club. But if you are a head coach, your responsibility is to play better and try to improve the players and to get positive results.

“The head coach is not the same as the manager. If not, why am I not [called] the manager? I am the head coach. In Southampton, I was a manager. My responsibility was not only to coach the team. Here I am a head coach - a head coach is head of your department. My department is to train the team.”
Pochettino was consequently asked to elaborate on what he did differently at Southampton, but he was loath to discuss the issue, and Tottenham’s chain of command.
“I don’t want to speak about the past,” he said. “We need to improve in our structure. My responsibility is to get positive results in the future and the next few games. This is my job now.
“What needs to improve in the structure? Maybe this question is not for me. My idea is always to try to improve. Nothing is perfect – always we need to improve.”

well, with mitchell coming along, its admission from levy and baldinini that the players we have are not the right ones. i'm expecting a massive cull in the next two windows.

 

[Raziel]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfsPh?...ium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tottenham-hotspur



well, with mitchell coming along, its admission from levy and baldinini that the players we have are not the right ones. i'm expecting a massive cull in the next two windows.

The "they" references are going to have a reaction

 

[braineclipse]

Everyone named as made it through rough patches tended to already have a lot of experience prior (not their first year, in first big gig), or was so long ago, not really relevant.

Think with the hiring of Paul Mitchell, looks like club is backing Poch, lets hope it pays off.

Do find articles like this -> http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/spurs-players-struggling-connect-mauricio-4700445 concerning however

Not really all that concerning imo. It just says that it's still not fully happening in Poch's system. Hardly earth shattering news. And that the players want to work hard to keep trying to make the system work. A clear positive.

Southampton showed a pretty clear increase in form during Poch's first full season at the club, after he had spent half a year at the club already.

In his first half a season (16 games) they picked up 1.19 points per game with only 4 wins out of those 16. What mostly made his name in that first half a season was that those 4 wins were against City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Reading.

First full season they picked up significantly more points with 1.47 ppg, winning 15 out of 38 games.

 

[AdamB]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfsPh?...ium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tottenham-hotspur



well, with mitchell coming along, its admission from levy and baldinini that the players we have are not the right ones. i'm expecting a massive cull in the next two windows.

Baldini should be booted out after the way we wasted the Bale money

 

[mudshark]

The "they" references are going to have a reaction

By "they," I assumed he meant the players.

 

[NickTB]

a bit of ITK from some where, make of it what you will.

From Galahad the gnome

A parchment arrives containing some snippets from the diminutive one. The information is not uniformly positive, so if you dislike reading negative information, please close this thread now.


There was a confrontation after the Stoke game between Adebayor and Kane. Most of the team sided with Kane, but Kaboul and a couple of others didn't. Kaboul then went to see the manager to voice "the squads opinion" on Kane and his supporters. It was clear to MP that Adebayor, Lennon and Kaboul do not speak for the rest of the squad. The younger players are not happy with the way the three most senior players have been behaving, training and playing.

MP bitterly disappointed with more than half a dozen of the squad who have decided the extra hard work they are being asked to do hasn't paid off, so they won't bother to do it. He wanted to give them time to buy into his plans, but they have chosen not to do so. Today's team selection is a reflection of this reality.

Adebayor and Lennon are refusing to accept a move. They've told MP that they don't care whether they play or not. They'll stay at home, train with the reserves or sit on the bench, as long as they collect their wages.

Lennon only made the bench today because of the injuries to Townsend and Chadli.

Unsurprisingly it's proving most challenging to move many of our players expect Vlad to go permanent, and Paulinho on loan. Both to Italy and both to top Italian sides. Inter showing the most interest in Paulinho as things stand.

Baldini suggested we hire Paul Mitchell. MP supported this idea. Mitchell is seen as someone with the potential to become a DOF in the long term. He wants to 'apprentice' for a few years with someone experienced in transfers, dealing with agents and players, etc.

Each member of the triumvirate will have control over their own area of the transfer process. MP will decide on the roles he needs for his tactical schemes. Mitchell will then identify players (both young players and established players) for those roles, and will recommend them to MP, who will either approve or reject each of those recommendations. For players that get MP's green light, Baldini will go out and try to sign them. MP trusts Mitchell explicitly.

Moreno and Rodriguez (subject to full recovery) are still the top two on the list for January, although Mitchell has already identified other possibilities for MP to look at.

I actually believe this piece of ITK. It seems to fit the bill re the players in questions body language and attitude