Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Danishfurniturelover]

Just seen his interview where he said we lost because we made to many mistakes.

But Scara and others told me that was a Sherwood thing us making mistakes, the fact that poch has had a pre season and 11 games is neither here nor there.

I would not sack him unless we are in the bottom 6 in December then I would start to worry because the cost of going down is to much for a club trying to build a stadium.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Words fail me.

Be specific then. What EXACTLY is baffling and has no possible explanation? I'm not just talking about what as you as a fan without all the information may disagree with, I'm talking about what exactly is so baffling and indefensible.

Because as far as I can see, playing a 4231 isn't a terrible decision. Other teams can do it. Faith in young players is pretty admirable. Kane got a start when people were clamouring for it. Capoue, a decent footballer is playing ahead of Dembele, who was appaling when he came on, and Paulinho, who most want sold anyway.

Kaboul as captain? We have absolutely no idea of what the dynamics of the team are. Some reports have suggested that there were loads of dissenting players unhappy with the club this summer and Kaboul stood up to keep them focussed. He has likely earned it.

I see no obvious baffling decision from Poch. I see players struggling to adapt, as they always seem to do when they've been asked to play any sort of system that doesn't give them freedom to do whatever they want. It's like they can't engage their brains and play football at the same time. Some of the passes today were just pathetic. They couldn't control the ball. They were passing out of play because no one was there. The manager isn't doing the that.

 

[Hully]

You fans who want poch out disgust me. Fickle as they come and think that it's the mangers fault. Our club is a joke

Have to agree our club is a joke.
The one key point though is we don't have a manager. We have a head coach. We don't have anyone in overall command. I don't know who to blame, because I don't know who's made some of the poor decisions.

The problems of recent seasons have largely arisen since we got rid of the manager and moved to a director of football/head coach set up.
We need to appoint someone to manage the side, be that Poch or someone else.

 

[Raziel]

Be specific then. What EXACTLY is baffling and has no possible explanation? I'm not just talking about what as you as a fan without all the information may disagree with, I'm talking about what exactly is so baffling and indefensible.

Because as far as I can see, playing a 4231 isn't a terrible decision. Other teams can do it. Faith in young players is pretty admirable. Kane got a start when people were clamouring for it. Capoue, a decent footballer is playing ahead of Dembele, who was appaling when he came on, and Paulinho, who most want sold anyway.

Kaboul as captain? We have absolutely no idea of what the dynamics of the team are. Some reports have suggested that there were loads of dissenting players unhappy with the club this summer and Kaboul stood up to keep them focussed. He has likely earned it.

I see no obvious baffling decision from Poch. I see players struggling to adapt, as they always seem to do when they've been asked to play any sort of system that doesn't give them freedom to do whatever they want. It's like they can't engage their brains and play football at the same time. Some of the passes today were just pathetic. They couldn't control the ball. They were passing out of play because no one was there. The manager isn't doing the that.

Come on mate? be serious ..

Captaincy decision
- Kanboul? a player who via injury or form hasn't shown in two years that he is likely to be first choice.
- Vice captain - Ade, again, could make up a less likely candidate if I was trying to **** with people

today
- 1 up front is not a problem, 1 up front with Kane is, Kane has shown he can score, but seems most effective when playing as the 2nd striker. So wait till the kid basically forces your hand to pick him, then play a setup that hasn't worked with him in the past.
- Mason/Capoue doesn't work (arguably Capoue doesn't work), how many ****ing times does Poch need to see that?
- Townsend works on one side in last game, so lets put him on the other
- Fazio/Kaboul with Vert on the bench??
- Take off Eriksen for Dembele?
- We are struggling with loss of possession, poor midfield and you bring on Lamela?

Explain why

- Kaboul/Ade are anywhere near the captaincy
- Kaboul/Fazio/Ade/Dembele/Capoue are anywhere near 1st team in PL
- What is our style/formation?
- Who is going to score?
- Why is the team so unmotivated?

I don't see how giving Poch time changes any of that.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Come on mate? be serious ..

Captaincy decision
- Kanboul? a player who via injury or form hasn't shown in two years that he is likely to be first choice.
- Vice captain - Ade, again, could make up a less likely candidate if I was trying to **** with people

today
- 1 up front is not a problem, 1 up front with Kane is, Kane has shown he can score, but seems most effective when playing as the 2nd striker. So wait till the kid basically forces your hand to pick him, then play a setup that hasn't worked with him in the past.
- Mason/Capoue doesn't work (arguably Capoue doesn't work), how many ****ing times does Poch need to see that?
- Townsend works on one side in last game, so lets put him on the other
- Fazio/Kaboul with Vert on the bench??
- Take off Eriksen for Dembele?
- We are struggling with loss of possession, poor midfield and you bring on Lamela?

Explain why

- Kaboul/Ade are anywhere near the captaincy
- Kaboul/Fazio/Ade/Dembele/Capoue are anywhere near 1st team in PL
- What is our style/formation?
- Who is going to score?
- Why is the team so unmotivated?

I don't see how giving Poch time changes any of that.

Pains me to say it but I agree with all the above.

 

[the dza]

On the plus side, we now have an international break. If we can re-group, we are only 3 points behind Arsenal, 2 behind Utd and level with Everton and Liverpool. We can't really play a lot worse, yet we are still there with them. 4 points from 4th, 5 points from the relegation zone.

C'mon Poch, show us what you are made of!

 

[chicken_badge]

Raziel: I'm speculating but maybe it's off the pitch influence too. For example, at CB I know Vertonghen is our best player by a mile. But there were clear signs last season that his head wasn't right. Kaboul and Fazio are Pochettinos men.

 

[Raziel]

Raziel: I'm speculating but maybe it's off the pitch influence too. For example, at CB I know Vertonghen is our best player by a mile. But there were clear signs last season that his head wasn't right. Kaboul and Fazio are Pochettinos men.

I understand, but lets be clear, Poch's men are not delivering ...

 

[Cochise]

I'd say Fazio was played because we have seen Jan out muscled quite often by teams that play to a strong lone front man. Stoke however didn't do that and got most of their joy attacking us from wide areas (Bojan started wide and came in field whilst Diouf got inside Rose before crossing it). To my mind, Chadli and Townsend were decent starting players to offer the fullbacks a bit more protection, which we know Eriksen and Lamela don't provide as well. Kane unfortunately is ok at #10 when we are up against European minnows but I still don't rate him there vs EPL teams because of the work rate required of that player when defending. Eriksen was bullied out of the game so Poch threw on a more physical player in Dembele to try to out muscle Stoke. The 433 we operated briefly actually did work out alright.

We know Capoue and Mason isn't the answer, but then again who have we got who will do better? Stambouli may well come in and do well there, but Dembele isn't that type of player and still fails to release the ball early. That leaves Paulinho whom I'm sure most wouldn't want anywhere near that area of the field and Bentaleb who is inexperienced and currently injured. We are stuck because the squad (excuse the Sherwoodism here) is much of a muchness. What Poch needs in a player we don't have.

As for the captaincy. Well I agree there. Kaboul shouldn't have got it because he shouldn't be in the starting XI and Ade just is trouble. However we have a very young side and those two are two of the few senior players we actually have.

As for the system, Swansea just beat the gooners using a 4231. The difference is that they keep their wide men wide and stretch the pitch in order to make more room for those players in the middle to operate. Their "wingers" were able to go inside and out, but it was their starting positions that restricted Arsenal. That and the fact that their back line in possession don't push anywhere near as high as our's, they made the pitch much bigger, another thing that I think Poch should try.

 

[braineclipse]

Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. The problems we're seeing now under Poch are not new, they're problems that have existed at our club for a long time.

Poch says it's his job to figure out how to fix it, I trust him to do it.

 

[The Portugeezer]

I asked my Chelsea supporting mate what were his thoughts on Spurs this season and these were his words....


'Got the wrong Southampton Boss.'

 

[Mumorn]

Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. The problems we're seeing now under Poch are not new, they're problems that have existed at our club for a long time.

Poch says it's his job to figure out how to fix it, I trust him to do it.

agreed. people are going on like we were good before this We've been **** for a while. Poch needs time.

 

[the dza]

We know Capoue and Mason isn't the answer, but then again who have we got who will do better? Stambouli may well come in and do well there, but Dembele isn't that type of player and still fails to release the ball early. That leaves Paulinho whom I'm sure most wouldn't want anywhere near that area of the field and Bentaleb who is inexperienced and currently injured. We are stuck because the squad (excuse the Sherwoodism here) is much of a muchness. What Poch needs in a player we don't have.

We could do worse than recall Caroll, and get him or Bentaleb (when fit) in alongside Mason.

Or, we could try Vertonghen there, as a holding midfielder. Capoue is just MIA far too often to be relied upon.

 

[braineclipse]

Come on mate? be serious ..

Captaincy decision
- Kanboul? a player who via injury or form hasn't shown in two years that he is likely to be first choice.
- Vice captain - Ade, again, could make up a less likely candidate if I was trying to **** with people

today
- 1 up front is not a problem, 1 up front with Kane is, Kane has shown he can score, but seems most effective when playing as the 2nd striker. So wait till the kid basically forces your hand to pick him, then play a setup that hasn't worked with him in the past.
- Mason/Capoue doesn't work (arguably Capoue doesn't work), how many ****ing times does Poch need to see that?
- Townsend works on one side in last game, so lets put him on the other
- Fazio/Kaboul with Vert on the bench??
- Take off Eriksen for Dembele?
- We are struggling with loss of possession, poor midfield and you bring on Lamela?

Explain why

1. - Kaboul/Ade are anywhere near the captaincy
2. - Kaboul/Fazio/Ade/Dembele/Capoue are anywhere near 1st team in PL
3. - What is our style/formation?
4. - Who is going to score?
5. - Why is the team so unmotivated?

I don't see how giving Poch time changes any of that.

1. Captaincy is as much about what goes on with the squad as what goes on out there on the pitch. Some of the problems we have stem from not having enough leaders in our squad. There were no obvious options for captains. Had there been that player would have been able to take charge on the pitch without the armband too.

2. Because the manager rates them and thinks they will improve?

3. Formation: 4-2-3-1. Style: Work in progress, most likely moving towards a fairly high pressing style in the Bielsa mould. Fairly direct when attacking with a varied approach between shorter and longer passes, crosses and more intricate passing.

4. The front 4 primarily.

5. Difficult to say, I'm guess it's a complex thing and not something that's sorted out quickly.

 

[Raziel]

Problem for Poch is he is not making the simple choices, to me he has the AVB sickness, so obsessed with system/style he forgets the basics

Captain -> easy, safe choice (no controversy, no worries about player making 11 on form) = Lloris
Defend better -> Naughton - Vert - Dier - Davies, stop the overcommit/suicide FB play
We lack scoring options, against "lesser" teams and at home, opt for two up front (Kane +1)
Play wide players that will play wide.

Sort the midfield -> Mason - Eirksen - Chadli have earned their spot,
Try Stambouli instead of Capoue

Opt for Lennon/Townsend/Lamela as an option when you go 1 up front

In my opinion Vert & Eriksen are smart players, they can see the obvious even more than we can, get to some basics, get the team playing and they will respind.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. The problems we're seeing now under Poch are not new, they're problems that have existed at our club for a long time.

Poch says it's his job to figure out how to fix it, I trust him to do it.

Why do you trust him to do it? I genuinely interested to know what signs people have seen to make them confident that Poch will deliver in time?

 

[Jordinho]

We could do worse than recall Caroll, and get him or Bentaleb (when fit) in alongside Mason.

Or, we could try Vertonghen there, as a holding midfielder. Capoue is just MIA far too often to be relied upon.

Carroll would be fighting with Mason. Too lightweight for the other role. Bentaleb goes missing far more than Capoue. I say give Stambouli a try now. If that doesn't work out we can only hope we manage to shift a few in January.

 

[braineclipse]

Why do you trust him to do it? I genuinely interested to know what signs people have seen to make them confident that Poch will deliver in time?

What he did at Southampton. What he did at Espanyol. How highly rated he seems to be amongst people that followed him in Spain. His Bielsa connection. How he handles himself. Some of what's been going on with the team on the pitch.

Don't get me wrong, it looked bad today in the first half, really bad. One of the worst halves of football from us in quite some time. But the problems we're seeing aren't new. We all hoped that Poch would be able to sort it out in a pre-season and a bit, but that hasn't been the case.

 

[Raziel]

Carroll would be fighting with Mason. Too lightweight for the other role. Bentaleb goes missing far more than Capoue. I say give Stambouli a try now. If that doesn't work out we can only hope we manage to shift a few in January.

Carroll is not the solution, he highlights the problem

Carroll/Siggy/Livermore/Hudd/Caulker/etc. all not good enough to be a first choice for Spurs, move to a club where they are the better quality players and yet turn out better performances and their teams are harder to beat, hold their own against top 4 better than Spurs.

To me it just proves we don't have a squad quality issue, we have a coach/leadership problem.

 

[braineclipse]

Carroll is not the solution, he highlights the problem

Carroll/Siggy/Livermore/Hudd/Caulker/etc. all not good enough to be a first choice for Spurs, move to a club where they are the better quality players and yet turn out better performances and their teams are harder to beat, hold their own against top 4 better than Spurs.

To me it just proves we don't have a squad quality issue, we have a coach/leadership problem.

Is this a problem you would expect a new head coach/manager to fix quickly if he's capable of fixing it?