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Manchester Arena explosion

Just having a brain storm...

Anyone in favour of following what Israel does by destroying the family home of any terrorist who commits an act on their soil?

Perhaps we wouldn't be as extreme here but the family can be deported or if they stay here, ban the family from receiving a penny of UK benefits or privileges they receive from living here, irrespective if they were born here

The reason I say this is this might make the terrorist think twice about any action he/she may want to commit
 
spitshine said:
Just having a brain storm...

Anyone in favour of following what Israel does by destroying the family home of any terrorist who commits an act on their soil?

Perhaps we wouldn't be as extreme here but the family can be deported or if they stay here, ban the family from receiving a penny of UK benefits or privileges they receive from living here, irrespective if they were born here

The reason I say this is this might make the terrorist think twice about any action he/she may want to commit
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no - its not been a success in Israel (still terror attacks) so probably wouldn't be here either, so that only means revenge against an innocent party. If they were guilty of colluding prove it in a court of law and put them in prison.

(*where are you deporting British born family members?)
 
r-u-s-x said:
no - its not been a success in Israel (still terror attacks) so probably wouldn't be here either, so that only means revenge against an innocent party. If they were guilty of colluding prove it in a court of law and put them in prison.

(*where are you deporting British born family members?)
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How about we just build a huge country (Alaska might be a good site) and call it Religionland.

Wall the fudgers in* and let everyone blow each other up in the name of their imaginary friends and the world will be a significantly better place.




*No, I didn't learn my lesson from Escape from New York.
 
scaramanga said:
How about we just build a huge country (Alaska might be a good site) and call it Religionland.

Wall the fudgers in* and let everyone blow each other up in the name of their imaginary friends and the world will be a significantly better place.
Click to expand...

Isn't that America?

It's where Britain shipped out all its intolerants to hundreds of years ago, so they could enjoy the freedom TO persecution.
 
They love Islam and the way Islam shapes culture but choose to live in a western society rather than say move to Saudi and live in bliss, I don't get it really. It might be a simple way of looking at things, but it makes no sense. I love living in a western society so the last thing I do is go to Syria, moan about it, come back to England then fly back to Syria and kill myself and 22 people because Syria is not the Western hub I crave.
 
spitshine said:
Just having a brain storm...

Anyone in favour of following what Israel does by destroying the family home of any terrorist who commits an act on their soil?

Perhaps we wouldn't be as extreme here but the family can be deported or if they stay here, ban the family from receiving a penny of UK benefits or privileges they receive from living here, irrespective if they were born here

The reason I say this is this might make the terrorist think twice about any action he/she may want to commit
Click to expand...

The Palestinian authority pays the family money when their relative commits a terrorist attack. But stopping benefits here would help.
 
r-u-s-x said:
no - its not been a success in Israel (still terror attacks) so probably wouldn't be here either, so that only means revenge against an innocent party. If they were guilty of colluding prove it in a court of law and put them in prison.

(*where are you deporting British born family members?)
Click to expand...

I mean the British born family members obviously can't be deported but they should not receive any assistance insofar as benefits or privileges that British citizens get.

I think if you get into minds of these people and make them realise they will be hurting their immediate family could act as a deterrent for some.
 
spitshine said:
I think if you get into minds of these people and make them realise they will be hurting their immediate family could act as a deterrent for some.
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perhaps but the perceived injustice of it could equally radicalise others, in Israel it is often pointed at as justification for terrorists actions. there is proof it does not work completely (still terrorists in Israel) and as a society I hope we have moved on from collective punishment.

If they were involved find proof and lock them up - if they were not I don't want to see innocent people punished for others crimes.
 
Grays_1890 said:
They love Islam and the way Islam shapes culture but choose to live in a western society rather than say move to Saudi and live in bliss, I don't get it really. It might be a simple way of looking at things, but it makes no sense. I love living in a western society so the last thing I do is go to Syria, moan about it, come back to England then fly back to Syria and kill myself and 22 people because Syria is not the Western hub I crave.
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There's also the jealousy, particularly over resources. Places with temperate climates are much wealthier than the sub-tropics and tropics. Seeing that disparity, particularly across a small stretch of sea like the Mediterranean, can drive aggression.

The interesting thing is why it exists in gulf and north African cultures, but not say Mexico or Angola (at similar longitudes)? There is an old theory on martial races. The British in India sussed very quickly that they only needed to defeat/win over the Ghurkhas and the Sikhs, while the rest of the peoples of sub-continent would by their nature be more subservient. Perhaps this is an old warrior mentality hangover in play here too? T. E. Lawrence exploited it for more useful ends.
 
spitshine said:
I mean the British born family members obviously can't be deported but they should not receive any assistance insofar as benefits or privileges that British citizens get.

I think if you get into minds of these people and make them realise they will be hurting their immediate family could act as a deterrent for some.
Click to expand...
Frankly it disgusts me that anyone in this country would even consider your position.
Destroying the lives of innocent people for the actions of others just because they happen to be related?!
That is a loss of liberty. I believe there are some groups of people who like to take that away....
 
spitshine said:
Just having a brain storm...

Anyone in favour of following what Israel does by destroying the family home of any terrorist who commits an act on their soil?

Perhaps we wouldn't be as extreme here but the family can be deported or if they stay here, ban the family from receiving a penny of UK benefits or privileges they receive from living here, irrespective if they were born here

The reason I say this is this might make the terrorist think twice about any action he/she may want to commit
Click to expand...

The fact that a terrorist will go ahead with his act of terror knowing that his family will be the ones left to pick up the pieces, deal with the shame, risk being tarred with the same brush, and quite possibly become the subject of abuse at best and acts of revenge at worse makes me think the terrorist would not be particularly moved at the thought of their family losing benefits, rights etc.

Regardless, it is thankfully not the way our laws and justice system operate and it would be a huge, huge, step in the wrong direction to even contemplate such a solution/punishment.
 
Gutter Boy said:
There's also the jealousy, particularly over resources. Places with temperate climates are much wealthier than the sub-tropics and tropics. Seeing that disparity, particularly across a small stretch of sea like the Mediterranean, can drive aggression.
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Its a funny one because our resources have come from the fact that we have enjoyed a distribution of wealth from the top that is more equal where as Islamic nations tend to have a gulf due to dictatorship regimes, its their own religion and system that fails them, not the west.

Look at Iran, Mohammad Reza Shah for example, first airline in the world to commission Concord? IranAir, why so he could bring in daily meals from Paris, thats what split the Middle East, people like that.

s-l1600.jpg
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its a funny one because our resources have come from the fact that we have enjoyed a distribution of wealth from the top that is more equal where as Islamic nations tend to have a gulf due to dictatorship regimes, its their own religion and system that fails them, not the west.

Look at Iran, Mohammad Reza Shah for example, first airline in the world to commission Concord? IranAir, why so he could bring in daily meals from Paris, thats what split the Middle East, people like that.

s-l1600.jpg
Click to expand...

I understand your point (not necessarily agreeing to it) but I wouldn't use The Shah as an example, seeing as he was put in place and supported by the US and GB.
 
AuroRaman said:
I understand your point (not necessarily agreeing to it) but I wouldn't use The Shah as an example, seeing as he was put in place and supported by the US and GB.
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Yes but dictatorship would have been before him, was it not his father before him? Terrorism and Terrorist actions are huge in dictatorship lead countries, look at Africa, its rife there also because the top are creaming off the natural resources, its not new. But that is stating the obvious for sure, but jealousy on how the west lives if it exists is not a fault to lay on the door of the West, nor is it to lay on the door of the East as a whole, but the oppression comes from their own in the first instance.
 
monkeybarry said:
Frankly it disgusts me that anyone in this country would even consider your position.
Destroying the lives of innocent people for the actions of others just because they happen to be related?!
That is a loss of liberty. I believe there are some groups of people who like to take that away....
Click to expand...

There are many things that people would never consider but who would think an arena up North packed with parents and kids going to a concert be a target for terrorists. If we are going down this route of easy targets, next act could be a pub anywhere in the country especially a busy one packed with locals.

This act has now convinced me that nothing is off limits no matter the location.

As for taking it out on their nearest and dearest, they will know more about the perpetrator than anyone else and surely this would encourage family members to contact the security services before an act is committed.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Water, prosperity, democracy, liberalism, secularism to the middle east

Prosperity was essentially what determined peace in Northern Ireland

Short of thought police and persecution of everyone a little weird, there's no other way
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Like growing up in a modern city in the UK and the opportunity to attend both a college and university? That kind of prosperity? Doesn't seem to have quite the protective effect you imagine.

r-u-s-x said:
How many atheists have committed mass murder because a Ghod didn't tell them to stop

People commit mass murder because of mental illness or a desire to commit mass murder - religion is an excuse.
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Look at history. It's perfectly possible to get average people to do horrible things with the right indoctrination. Mental illness is not necessary and suggesting that is frankly somewhat insulting to those who do suffer mental illnesses.

Though of course some of those who do terrible things will struggle with a serious disorder. Let's take a hypothetical. Knowing that both psychotic (hallucinations) and cognitive distortions like paranoia are heavily influenced by culture. Not the prevalence of those issues, but how they manifest. 500 years ago people saw witches rather than UFOs. Culture changes what people perceive/think.

Imagine someone with a budding psychotic or cognitive disturbance. They're experiencing strange things that they struggle to make sense of. We can tell this person one of 3 things:

1. The scientologists are right. Suffering stems from thetans, you can be cured, but you have to be loyal to the church of scientology.

2. There is a GHod who can communicate with you if he wants to. Here's the book he authored (directly or indirectly). The book contains some barbaric sections, but never mind that the one true all knowing GHod didn't mean it that way.

3. There's no reason to believe in anything superstitious. GHod is man made rather than the other way around.

It's very easy to imagine terrible consequences of the first two. A lot harder for the last one. In short telling people with a serious mental illness that their delusions are potential signs of the supernatural is probably not a good idea. Combining it with literature contain man medieval morality seems even worse.

With scientology most people would agree with that in a heartbeat I think.
 
spitshine said:
There are many things that people would never consider but who would think an arena up North packed with parents and kids going to a concert be a target for terrorists. If we are going down this route of easy targets, next act could be a pub anywhere in the country especially a busy one packed with locals.

This act has now convinced me that nothing is off limits no matter the location.

As for taking it out on their nearest and dearest, they will know more about the perpetrator than anyone else and surely this would encourage family members to contact the security services before an act is committed.
Click to expand...

1. Anyone was a brain and ability to think about the big picture in the early 2000s could have (did) foresee this

2. What IS off limits is changing morality.

3. What a ridiculous statement - it assumes close family ties and that tracks are not covered. People are individuals and responsible for their own actions. If a member of your family became radicalised without your knowledge (and no, you cannot say they wouldn't), why should you punished?
 
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