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Lionel Messi

monkeybarry said:
further to SUIYHA's post - i don't totally agree with it as i don't think it is possible to make the distinction between greatest of all time over the history of football.

football has changed so much so you need to make the distinction based on a scale in the environment at the time.

Messi is certainly as influencial, in a top team, as Pele or Maradona, however so dar he hasnt made a mark on the World Cup in a decent team - he needs to be better at Int'l level for me - that is one thing Pele and Maradona did, they had both club and Int'l teams built around them
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But in those days international football was the pinnacle, it isn't anymore.
 
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
 
Mumorn said:
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
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:ross:

Would think Brazil FA would shut him up. the mess the World Cup is in at the moment the old adage of all publicity is good publicity is far from the truth. Can't think it does anyone any favours bigging up anything in Brazilian football at the moment.
 
Mumorn said:
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
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For such a great former footballer, he speaks like he knows nothing about the game. For example: El Hadj Diouf named one of the 100 greatest footballers in the world in the early 200s (2002 I think).
 
every time Pele makes a stupid comment one of his goals should get chalked off, he'd be down with Rasiak now
 
Mumorn said:
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
Click to expand...

Neymar who's achieved what exactly?

Won any European Cups?

Proved himself in one of the hardest leagues in world football?

Scored over 200 goals?
 
Lol, I think we should now consider Neymar to be doomed! African team to win the WC by new millenium? Nicky Butt a great? I could go on...

Neymar is Brazil's big hope in 2014, I cant see any other player who can realistically brighten up the world cup for Brazil. I guess in Peles mind, hes trying to get the Brazilian public on board with that idea by comparing him to Messi. Its stupid, not worth even debating over.

2014 is Messi's time to shut people up on that last doubt they have over him. Brazil, and their greatest player cant stomach that, simples.
 
Mumorn said:
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
Click to expand...

Very good. :)

Pele is closing in on being that person you listen to so that you can figure out what their opinion is just so you can immediately take the opposite opinion as it's very likely to be true.
 
I see the Qatar Foundation won again last night against some random team who had to be on the pitch for 90 mins and simply get a tick for presence. No resistance whatsoever - like a docile dog who's so happy to be allowed inside the house it would simply lie and keep quiet.

It has also become apparent they're now only 1 point behind Real Madrid (who have a game in hand against Atletico Madrid tonight - away) so La Liga could become very interesting in the last few weeks, especially considering the gap was 10 points not very long ago (heard that one before somewhere). Apparently Real Madrid have never lost a 10 point lead at the top.
 
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I don't think Real will bottle it, so no worries about that.

There can be no doubt that Messi is amongst the greatest though. Although the main benchmark seems to be the effing World Cup (big fat LOL). Which is utter flimflam, as you as a players is completely at the mercy of whatever brick country you are born in (hi there Best, Laudrup and Co) og whatever lunatic coaches decide to ruin your national team (hi there Svennis, McLaren and Co).

How difficult can it be to spot, that Messi is amongst the greatest, because in every game he plays, he appears completely unplayable for any defender no matter when he's on the ball ?

btw

Sometimes football is so overanalysed with strange stats (e.g. World Cup goals) because there are few other truly relevant stats available to the naked eye. Pro Zone, chalkboard stats and others are the relevant ones. My favourite anti-thesis is the "X goals in Y games" which shows fudge all about the player, the team or even the games played, it just shows someone has touched the ball last before it trickled over a line of white paint.
 
Mumorn said:
Pele still coming out with brick, even at his age.

"If Messi wants to become the best ever, first he must become better than Neymar"
Click to expand...

fcuking viagra has serious senile side effects
 
DanishWhite said:
Sometimes football is so overanalysed with strange stats (e.g. World Cup goals) because there are few other truly relevant stats available to the naked eye. Pro Zone, chalkboard stats and others are the relevant ones. My favourite anti-thesis is the "X goals in Y games" which shows fudge all about the player, the team or even the games played, it just shows someone has touched the ball last before it trickled over a line of white paint.
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Torres? He's scored a few now but his overall play in his last 10 or so games has been very good. Doesn't seem frightened to take a shot anymore and is a very generous for his teammates in the build up.
 
As Spurs fans we always talk about signing a player capable of scoring 20 goals a season (personally I long for the 25 goals a season man) but when I think of Messi's stats I really think it is not fair -

Superstar Lionel Messi, having taken his 2012 goals tally to 80 in midweek, can close in on German great Gerd Mueller's all-time record of 85 in a calendar year on Sunday. The Argentinian had already surpassed Pele's total of 75 goals in 1958 and a double at Spartak Moscow on Tuesday, when Barcelona secured their spot in the Champions League last 16, further boosted his hopes.
With his La Liga-leading side travelling to Levante on Sunday, Messi now has eight matches left before the Christmas break in which to break Mueller's record of 85 goals in 1972.

Where Lionel Messi is concerned, numbers speak louder than words. Every week the Argentina international seems to smash a new record and his two goals against Spartak Moscow on Wednesday bring him even closer to Gerd Muller's mark of 85 strikes in a calendar year.

Messi played his part in Dani Alves' brilliant opener before scuffing a second into the corner with his right and rounding the keeper for a simple finish to make it 3-0 before half-time.

In doing so, he equalled Ruud van Nistelrooy as the second-highest goalscorer in the history of the Champions League with 56 goals, behind only Raul, whose record of 14 doubles in the continental competition was surpassed.

The two goals were also the Argentine's first goals in Russia, meaning he has now scored in all 14 countries in which he has played for Barcelona in the Champions League.

Messi's staggering statistics not only put most forward players to shame, but some club sides too. Here, Goal.com takes a look at how Leo's 80 goals in 2012 stand up to other teams, strikers and rivals in the same calendar year.

80 - Messi's goals for Barcelona and Argentina in 2012. He is currently five behind record-holder Muller, who netted 85 for Bayern Munich and Germany in 1972. Leo has up to nine games left to surpass Muller's mark.

80 - Liverpool have scored 80 times so far in 2012. The Reds' big chance to overtake Messi (if he is still within sight) will come at Christmas - when Spain enjoys a winter break.

76 - AC Milan, last season's Serie A runners-up, Champions League quarter-finalists and Coppa Italia semi-finalists, have scored only 76 times so far in 2012.

76 - The goals scored in this summer's showpiece international tournament - Euro 2012. Messi, of course, did not take part, but will end the year with more strikes than those racked up by the 16 European nations in Poland and Ukraine.

75 - The highest-scoring South American in a calendar year had previously been Pele, with 75 strikes in 1958. Messi is still waiting for the DVD ...

68 - The majority of Leo's goals have come with Barca in 2012, but 12 were scored for Argentina - his most productive year by far for the Albiceleste. Messi, however, was unable to break Gabriel Batistuta's 1998 record as Argentina drew 0-0 with Saudi Arabia last week. One for next year perhaps.

67 - The number of goals Miroslav Klose, the other person who is about to break a Gerd Muller record (his 68 for Germany) has scored in 11 years and eight months of international football. Messi has 31 already for Argentina, at the age of just 25.

66 - Arjen Robben, a player once (peculiarly) compared to Messi by sections of the Spanish media, has scored 66 goals for club and country since moving to Bayern Munich in 2009 - 14 fewer than Leo has netted this year.

62 - In the time it has taken Messi to net 80 goals, Malaga have scored just 62 times - despite finishing fourth in La Liga last season and qualifying for this term's Champions League second round already.

59 - Cristiano Ronaldo's goals for club and country in 2012. He is some way short of his fiercest rival.

54 - So too is Neymar.

51 - Juan Roman Riquelme, former international team-mate and one-time rival to Messi for a place in the Albiceleste attack, needed four-and-a-half years in Spain to rack up 51 goals - a total Messi has surpassed in each of the last two seasons and is set to supersede again this term.

42 - Messi's former team-mate Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Atletico Madrid's Radamel Falcao, considered by many to be the best striker in the world, have both netted 42 times for club and country this year.

32 - While Leo has smashed 68 goals for Barca in 2012, the club's other forwards have managed just 32 goals between them in the same time frame. Alexis Sanchez has 10, Pedro nine, Cristian Tello seven and David Villa six. Meanwhile, Cesc Fabregas, who has been utilised in forward positions on occasions, has scored nine in the current calendar year.

13 - Messi ended as Pichichi in La Liga last season, with 50 goals, outscoring every team outside the top six apart from Rayo Vallecano (53). Osasuna, Mallorca, Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao, Getafe, Real Sociedad, Betis, Espanyol, Zaragoza, Granada, Villarreal, Sporting Gijon and Racing Santander all managed fewer goals than the Argentine.

12 - Juventus' two top scorers in 2012, Mirko Vucinic and Fabio Quagliarella, have netted just 12 apiece in all competitions since the beginning of January.

2 - Alexandre Pato's club goals in 2012. He has none in Serie A during that time.

1 - Messi has admitted he tried to base his game on that of fellow Argentine Pablo Aimar, but the former Valencia man is hardly prolific these days and has scored just one goal for Benfica in 2012.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
As Spurs fans we always talk about signing a player capable of scoring 20 goals a season (personally I long for the 25 goals a season man) but when I think of Messi's stats I really think it is not fair -

Superstar Lionel Messi, having taken his 2012 goals tally to 80 in midweek, can close in on German great Gerd Mueller's all-time record of 85 in a calendar year on Sunday. The Argentinian had already surpassed Pele's total of 75 goals in 1958 and a double at Spartak Moscow on Tuesday, when Barcelona secured their spot in the Champions League last 16, further boosted his hopes.
With his La Liga-leading side travelling to Levante on Sunday, Messi now has eight matches left before the Christmas break in which to break Mueller's record of 85 goals in 1972.

Where Lionel Messi is concerned, numbers speak louder than words. Every week the Argentina international seems to smash a new record and his two goals against Spartak Moscow on Wednesday bring him even closer to Gerd Muller's mark of 85 strikes in a calendar year.

Messi played his part in Dani Alves' brilliant opener before scuffing a second into the corner with his right and rounding the keeper for a simple finish to make it 3-0 before half-time.

In doing so, he equalled Ruud van Nistelrooy as the second-highest goalscorer in the history of the Champions League with 56 goals, behind only Raul, whose record of 14 doubles in the continental competition was surpassed.

The two goals were also the Argentine's first goals in Russia, meaning he has now scored in all 14 countries in which he has played for Barcelona in the Champions League.

Messi's staggering statistics not only put most forward players to shame, but some club sides too. Here, Goal.com takes a look at how Leo's 80 goals in 2012 stand up to other teams, strikers and rivals in the same calendar year.

80 - Messi's goals for Barcelona and Argentina in 2012. He is currently five behind record-holder Muller, who netted 85 for Bayern Munich and Germany in 1972. Leo has up to nine games left to surpass Muller's mark.

80 - Liverpool have scored 80 times so far in 2012. The Reds' big chance to overtake Messi (if he is still within sight) will come at Christmas - when Spain enjoys a winter break.

76 - AC Milan, last season's Serie A runners-up, Champions League quarter-finalists and Coppa Italia semi-finalists, have scored only 76 times so far in 2012.

76 - The goals scored in this summer's showpiece international tournament - Euro 2012. Messi, of course, did not take part, but will end the year with more strikes than those racked up by the 16 European nations in Poland and Ukraine.

75 - The highest-scoring South American in a calendar year had previously been Pele, with 75 strikes in 1958. Messi is still waiting for the DVD ...

68 - The majority of Leo's goals have come with Barca in 2012, but 12 were scored for Argentina - his most productive year by far for the Albiceleste. Messi, however, was unable to break Gabriel Batistuta's 1998 record as Argentina drew 0-0 with Saudi Arabia last week. One for next year perhaps.

67 - The number of goals Miroslav Klose, the other person who is about to break a Gerd Muller record (his 68 for Germany) has scored in 11 years and eight months of international football. Messi has 31 already for Argentina, at the age of just 25.

66 - Arjen Robben, a player once (peculiarly) compared to Messi by sections of the Spanish media, has scored 66 goals for club and country since moving to Bayern Munich in 2009 - 14 fewer than Leo has netted this year.

62 - In the time it has taken Messi to net 80 goals, Malaga have scored just 62 times - despite finishing fourth in La Liga last season and qualifying for this term's Champions League second round already.

59 - Cristiano Ronaldo's goals for club and country in 2012. He is some way short of his fiercest rival.

54 - So too is Neymar.

51 - Juan Roman Riquelme, former international team-mate and one-time rival to Messi for a place in the Albiceleste attack, needed four-and-a-half years in Spain to rack up 51 goals - a total Messi has surpassed in each of the last two seasons and is set to supersede again this term.

42 - Messi's former team-mate Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Atletico Madrid's Radamel Falcao, considered by many to be the best striker in the world, have both netted 42 times for club and country this year.

32 - While Leo has smashed 68 goals for Barca in 2012, the club's other forwards have managed just 32 goals between them in the same time frame. Alexis Sanchez has 10, Pedro nine, Cristian Tello seven and David Villa six. Meanwhile, Cesc Fabregas, who has been utilised in forward positions on occasions, has scored nine in the current calendar year.

13 - Messi ended as Pichichi in La Liga last season, with 50 goals, outscoring every team outside the top six apart from Rayo Vallecano (53). Osasuna, Mallorca, Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao, Getafe, Real Sociedad, Betis, Espanyol, Zaragoza, Granada, Villarreal, Sporting Gijon and Racing Santander all managed fewer goals than the Argentine.

12 - Juventus' two top scorers in 2012, Mirko Vucinic and Fabio Quagliarella, have netted just 12 apiece in all competitions since the beginning of January.

2 - Alexandre Pato's club goals in 2012. He has none in Serie A during that time.

1 - Messi has admitted he tried to base his game on that of fellow Argentine Pablo Aimar, but the former Valencia man is hardly prolific these days and has scored just one goal for Benfica in 2012.
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Incredible stats! Best player ever. Thought Ronaldo was slightly closer to his goals scored but is 21 short!
 
NaijaSpurs said:
As Spurs fans we always talk about signing a player capable of scoring 20 goals a season (personally I long for the 25 goals a season man) but when I think of Messi's stats I really think it is not fair -

...
Click to expand...

A truly phenomenal player, if only he could score against Chavski though as he's currently got 0 goals from 8 games against them!
 
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