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Liam Payne's bust up with four Tottenham Hotspur players in nightclub

Do you think Bale would be the player he is now if he went boozing in the early hours of the morning with these gangster wannabes?

He would not. He is the player he is now because of his dedication to hard work and focus on becoming the best he can possibly be. When he's back out on the training pitch trying to improve his game, the other lot are planning their night out clubbing. If all of our players had Bale's mentality(not talent) then we'd be much better off.
 
Spursalot said:
It is about being fit enough though. The players could always be fitter, you could always do more fitness training, you could always do more. There is no 'peak physical fitness' in my mind.


If you can run around the pitch and do whatever is required for 90 minutes, than you are fit enough. Being fitter than that is unlikely to give you an additional edge, barring games going to extra time.
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You could always do more, but more isn't always better. If you look at sports that are almost pure endurance it's not like the athletes never stop training, in fact over-training is a serious concern in many sports. There is a peak to be found somewhere, although getting the balance perfectly right is obviously going to be difficult.

Disagree completely about not getting an additional edge from extra fitness/stamina. It's what makes Ramires a useful footballer. It's part of what makes Bale so immense, that ability he has to still make those high intensity runs when others are tiring. Extra stamina allows players to get involved more, press more, move more off the ball, make those extra backtracking runs. It's vital, and clubs spend a lot of money and time getting players up from the "fit enough" level to "as fit as they can be".
 
Rossi22 said:
Do you think Bale would be the player he is now if he went boozing in the early hours of the morning with these gangster wannabes?

He would not. He is the player he is now because of his dedication to hard work and focus on becoming the best he can possibly be. When he's back out on the training pitch trying to improve his game, the other lot are planning their night out clubbing. If all of our players had Bale's mentality(not talent) then we'd be much better off.
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Gangster wannabes? Anyone who drinks in a club is now a Gangster Wannabe? :lol:


We probably would be. However it is Bale's choice to be like that. Just as it would be your choice to do extra work to improve your own career.

I see nothing wrong with people who do their 9-5 shifts and go home and enjoy themselves. Which is what most of our players are going (barring the 9-5 part).


(I can tell you don't drink, 'planning their night out clubbing'? You don't plan. You just go)
 
I have to say that it is hardly ideal to performance peaking if a player has a late night during the week, and with drink it is even worse! But I think people are kidding themselves if they think most of these kids, and that is what they are, are disciplined in their personal lives. They are only human after all, and like a lot of young men they will be up late watching TV, playing on their Xbox, having sex and maybe all three at the same time :lol: It is like most professions I guess, I think most people have this rose tinted view of what people in those professions behave like but the reality is normally quite scary. I have socialised with surgeons and airline pilots the night before they work in the morning and I hope I never go under the knife and it's actually made me nervous to fly :eek: Not just because of the state they're in, but also because of the stories they tell about things that happen on the job!!
 
Spursalot said:
Gangster wannabes? Anyone who drinks in a club is now a Gangster Wannabe? :lol:


We probably would be. However it is Bale's choice to be like that. Just as it would be your choice to do extra work to improve your own career.

I see nothing wrong with people who do their 9-5 shifts and go home and enjoy themselves. Which is what most of our players are going (barring the 9-5 part).


(I can tell you don't drink, 'planning their night out clubbing'? You don't plan. You just go)
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No, not anyone. Just those in question.
 
braineclipse said:
You could always do more, but more isn't always better. If you look at sports that are almost pure endurance it's not like the athletes never stop training, in fact over-training is a serious concern in many sports. There is a peak to be found somewhere, although getting the balance perfectly right is obviously going to be difficult.

Disagree completely about not getting an additional edge from extra fitness/stamina. It's what makes Ramires a useful footballer. It's part of what makes Bale so immense, that ability he has to still make those high intensity runs when others are tiring. Extra stamina allows players to get involved more, press more, move more off the ball, make those extra backtracking runs. It's vital, and clubs spend a lot of money and time getting players up from the "fit enough" level to "as fit as they can be".
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I don't see that as being what makes Bale so immense. His physical abilities are not trained, you can't train everyone to the same level physically some just have a natural advantage, which is what i see some players like Bale and Ronaldo having.

Modric was nippy because of his build, Toure makes powerful driving runs because of his build. I think genetics plays far more a part in this than you are giving it credit for. Some people are just fitter than others naturally.


Training can help you yes, but you can't train anyone to Bale's level. Extra stamina? You'd already have this. as i said, if you can do what is required for 90 minutes, than you are fit enough. Granted some teams will require higher levels of fitness due to their pressing game.
 
england-team.jpg


Yeah, real professional, Aaron.
 
Rossi22 said:
Do you think Bale would be the player he is now if he went boozing in the early hours of the morning with these gangster wannabes?

He would not. He is the player he is now because of his dedication to hard work and focus on becoming the best he can possibly be. When he's back out on the training pitch trying to improve his game, the other lot are planning their night out clubbing. If all of our players had Bale's mentality(not talent) then we'd be much better off.
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I agree with you that the mentality in our club has been lacking for some time now, I'm hoping that it's improving, but it's very difficult to tell from the outside short term.

We don't really know what happened in this instance though and I think you're jumping to conclusions. This might have been an example of a lack of professionalism, but it might not have been. I think you should admit as much.

Bale seems to have a fantastic work rate, and I hope more of our players will learn from him, but I see no reason to single out these lads based on what has happened here. Kyle Walker seems to take very good care of himself and seems in tip top physical shape. Aaron Lennon works as hard as any winger in the league defensively every game and I don't see any reason to doubt his dedication. Huddlestone was injured for a long time, he's come back now though and although some posters on here were doubting if he could even play 90 minutes less than a month ago (that too without any reasonable evidence behind it) he has shown that he is ready physically even though he's obviously still regaining match fitness.

This is not the part of the season to be doing extra fitness work in my opinion, this might not even be the time to spend those extra hours on the training ground. At this point of the season it's very important to get in the right mental state though. As long as AVB doesn't have a problem with what happened here I don't see why you should either. He might take issue with this, but we have no way of knowing unless some journo asks him.
 
Rossi22 said:
No, not anyone. Just those in question.
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What? Why? I don't get it. How are Walker, Lennon, Livermore and the other one (who's name eludes me) Gangster Wannabes?


Drinking in a club and hitting on girls? That's like the majority of men out there.
 
Spursalot said:
I don't see that as being what makes Bale so immense. His physical abilities are not trained, you can't train everyone to the same level physically some just have a natural advantage, which is what i see some players like Bale and Ronaldo having.

Modric was nippy because of his build, Toure makes powerful driving runs because of his build. I think genetics plays far more a part in this than you are giving it credit for. Some people are just fitter than others naturally.


Training can help you yes, but you can't train anyone to Bale's level. Extra stamina? You'd already have this. as i said, if you can do what is required for 90 minutes, than you are fit enough. Granted some teams will require higher levels of fitness due to their pressing game.
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Did I say that you can train everyone to the same level? I must have missed that part of my post...

Just because genetics plays an important part doesn't mean that you can't gain a fitness edge through better training. I remember reading an article about how Barcelona were testing out some new pre-season training regime, looking to improve their fitness just by a couple of percentage points if possible.

If you really don't think that a player improving their fitness improves them as a football player just because they are already at the level required of them and none of my points above about being able to be involved more, press more, move more off the ball or make extra backtracking runs made any impact then we should probably just end the discussion here.
 
There are many footballers out there who are smokers - isnt Berba one? Ginola was definitely one etc

I dont give a damn what players do outside their lives and its fairly sad that a paper decides to print such a story. I cant even believe its a debate. I would understand the debate if they went out on saturday night before the game on sunday but blimey a full four or five days (not even sure when they were supposedly out) before a game? Doubt it would hinder them.

Besides who the fudge knows, players could be in their houses drinking and no one on here would be any the wiser.
 
Rossi22 said:
I don't drink
KEcC4.gif


These so called professionals should follow suit for 10 months of the year.
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Rossi22 said:
Yeah, real professional, Aaron.
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"[...]this is England's hapless footballers just hours after crashing out to Germany 4-1 in the nation's worst ever World Cup defeat."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1290775/WORLD-CUP-2010-England-flops-smoke-cigars-drink-beer-Germany-defeat.html

So, what is it? 10 months of the year? Or does the off-season also count now?

Are you really saying that footballers can't have a cigar and some drinks during their summer holidays either? Weeks ahead of the start of pre-season training?
 
braineclipse said:
Did I say that you can train everyone to the same level? I must have missed that part of my post...

Just because genetics plays an important part doesn't mean that you can't gain a fitness edge through better training. I remember reading an article about how Barcelona were testing out some new pre-season training regime, looking to improve their fitness just by a couple of percentage points if possible.

If you really don't think that a player improving their fitness improves them as a football player just because they are already at the level required of them and none of my points above about being able to be involved more, press more, move more off the ball or make extra backtracking runs made any impact then we should probably just end the discussion here.
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It's not the players that are trying to improve the fitness though, it's the club. If the manager creates a new training regime than sure, by all means have the players follow it and see how it goes. That is a completely different situation.


I think there is a point at which getting fitter will not help you. There is a ceiling. Beyond that there is no point in training any more. in my mind if the player does all that is asks of them over 90 minutes than job done.


(I don't think we're really going to get anywhere so we might want to leave it there, nice discussing it with you though)
 
If we win 10-0 and Lennon, Huddlestone, Livermore and Walker get all the goals will you all cut them some slack and praise AVB's methods?
 
braineclipse said:
"[...]this is England's hapless footballers just hours after crashing out to Germany 4-1 in the nation's worst ever World Cup defeat."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1290775/WORLD-CUP-2010-England-flops-smoke-cigars-drink-beer-Germany-defeat.html

So, what is it? 10 months of the year? Or does the off-season also count now?

Are you really saying that footballers can't have a cigar and some drinks during their summer holidays either? Weeks ahead of the start of pre-season training?
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Error.


At least the picture i found of Drogba was in February.
 
DHSF said:
There are many footballers out there who are smokers - isnt Berba one? Ginola was definitely one etc

I dont give a damn what players do outside their lives and its fairly sad that a paper decides to print such a story. I cant even believe its a debate. I would understand the debate if they went out on saturday night before the game on sunday but blimey a full four or five days (not even sure when they were supposedly out) before a game? Doubt it would hinder them.

Besides who the fudge knows, players could be in their houses drinking and no one on here would be any the wiser.
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BerbSmoke.jpeg


although hes hardly the epitome of hard working professional :lol:
 
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