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Leaving Jacksons Ranch

scaramanga said:
Is what the parents did any different to those who sell their pre-pubescent daughters into arranged marriages because the family has money or because their imaginary friend said so?
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Well theres a can of worms...

Different to selling a kid into a wealthy family - not for me. Money is the motivator in both.

Different to having your imaginary friend tell you to do it - yes, actually. Thats a different bag of crazy.
 
glasgowspur said:
Of course it is, that's a cultural thing.

Sarcasm BTW.
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Sarcasm maybe but that is a fair comment, its accepted because its cultural.

With the way the world is going you wonder how long it will take for a movement to really push on the arranged marriage thing.
 
I'm a massive Micahel Jackson fan and growing up used to try copy his moves and sing his songs. I still listen to his music pretty much every day. It's hard for me to watch but the fan in me says he is innocent. He was a troubled soul and seemed to feel hurt when he would see bad things in the world. He did love children and their innocence. I have only watched the first episode but I am not convinced he was a pedo. Maybe I just don't want to believe it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Sarcasm maybe but that is a fair comment, its accepted because its cultural.

With the way the world is going you wonder how long it will take for a movement to really push on the arranged marriage thing.
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It's something I find quite interesting, culturally marriage/sex is not the same around the world, it's different now to what it was 100 years ago and that was different to what was acceptable probably 200 years before that.
As life expectancy grows the age where marriage/sex is acceptable becomes older , even though I think you could argue children, and especially girls, become more sexualised younger.
 
Spursman said:
I'm a massive Micahel Jackson fan and growing up used to try copy his moves and sing his songs. I still listen to his music pretty much every day. It's hard for me to watch but the fan in me says he is innocent. He was a troubled soul and seemed to feel hurt when he would see bad things in the world. He did love children and their innocence. I have only watched the first episode but I am not convinced he was a pedo. Maybe I just don't want to believe it.
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Video please.
 
glasgowspur said:
As life expectancy grows the age where marriage/sex is acceptable becomes older , even though I think you could argue children, and especially girls, become more sexualised younger.
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I am not sure this is correct, just our perception now. Look at the 70's lots of famous Music stars openly dating young groupies which would get you (rightly) lynched these days.

On the first point - most democracies would love to have age of consent 18+ but we know its unrealistic / impossible due to genetics / urges(?) - best we can do is Romeo / Juliet laws to stop youths being taken advantage of.
 
scaramanga said:
I agree. I just find it hard to take that we are all happy to shout about how wrong Jackson's actions were (and they were horrible), but ignore the fact that a child is forced to marry every 2 seconds and the Catholic church continues to actively block the rightful criminal prosecution of the paedos it hides.
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Who is ignoring this? Just as much publicity on this as Jackson.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I am not sure this is correct, just our perception now. Look at the 70's lots of famous Music stars openly dating young groupies which would get you (rightly) lynched these days.

On the first point - most democracies would love to have age of consent 18+ but we know its unrealistic / impossible due to genetics / urges(?) - best we can do is Romeo / Juliet laws to stop youths being taken advantage of.
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I think it's happening younger and it's more aggressive from what I remember. Being a child in the 70 maybe I just wasn't aware of it but it seems to me kids are pressurised into it a lot more nowadays.
 
Spursman said:
I'm a massive Micahel Jackson fan and growing up used to try copy his moves and sing his songs. I still listen to his music pretty much every day. It's hard for me to watch but the fan in me says he is innocent. He was a troubled soul and seemed to feel hurt when he would see bad things in the world. He did love children and their innocence. I have only watched the first episode but I am not convinced he was a pedo. Maybe I just don't want to believe it.
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If he was a paedo, he could see that as just another expression of love. It still fits his character.

As I said, there is far to much smoke, and far to much "wrong" with these situations that we do know of for me to think there wasnt something going on.

However, I doubt there will ever be conclusive proof, so people will always have the choice of what to believe.
 
glasgowspur said:
I think it's happening younger and it's more aggressive from what I remember. Being a child in the 70 maybe I just wasn't aware of it but it seems to me kids are pressurised into it a lot more nowadays.
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like most things I am guessing it hasn't got worse just more public

these are known, must be loads where they are not:
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/11-rock-stars-who-allegedly-slept-with-underage-girls-7980930

As a teen on of the 90's plenty of 13/14 y/o girls going to clubs with older men.
 
r-u-s-x said:
like most things I am guessing it hasn't got worse just more public

these are known, must be loads where they are not:
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/11-rock-stars-who-allegedly-slept-with-underage-girls-7980930

As a teen on of the 90's plenty of 13/14 y/o girls going to clubs with older men.
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Quite probably, the world is certainly not easy to hide in now. Or maybe I'm now just a grumpy old git who thinks things were better back in the day.
Can't see the article, ad blocker.
I go to the word allegedly, I doubt there is a celebrity in the world where it hasn't been alleged. Quite a few have went to trial and had it thrown out. The guy from coronation St, was a belter, how that got to trial is incredible.
 
r-u-s-x said:
like most things I am guessing it hasn't got worse just more public

these are known, must be loads where they are not:
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/11-rock-stars-who-allegedly-slept-with-underage-girls-7980930

As a teen on of the 90's plenty of 13/14 y/o girls going to clubs with older men.
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I definitely feel kids these days spend much less time being kids.

I have daughters, and when I go to their school school I see more girls trying to look and act like women than I ever remember when I was that age.

When I was a teen there were a handful that had lost their virginity, had blossomed quite young and were able to get in clubs etc - but that was the exception more than the rule.

These days half my 14 year olds class would easily get into a bar without question.

Problem is, despite looking the part they arent any more mature, and I cant help feeling that rush to grow up can be quite damaging.

That said, 70's and before was renowned for older guys/younger girls and attitudes to it then were pretty relaxed. I think it was through the 80's/90's attitudes changed more. Chances are that sort of activity just went behind the scenes more as you say. I suspect it didnt just stop.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I definitely feel kids these days spend much less time being kids.

I have daughters, and when I go to their school school I see more girls trying to look and act like women than I ever remember when I was that age.

When I was a teen there were a handful that had lost their virginity, had blossomed quite young and were able to get in clubs etc - but that was the exception more than the rule.

These days half my 14 year olds class would easily get into a bar without question.

Problem is, despite looking the part they arent any more mature, and I cant help feeling that rush to grow up can be quite damaging.

That said, 70's and before was renowned for older guys/younger girls and attitudes to it then were pretty relaxed. I think it was through the 80's/90's attitudes changed more. Chances are that sort of activity just went behind the scenes more as you say. I suspect it didnt just stop.
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I went to quite a rough school in Basildon and it was about half and half, some innocent but the "cool girls" were no different to now. Perhaps the ratio has changed, I am not arguing that this is right more pointing out that it defiantly went on in the past and it isn't a new thing.
 
There's a lot of stuff going round about how the two accusers are such liars & Jackson's nephew (I think) is doing the rounds trying to discredit them but surely he must think to himself 'Why the F did my Uncle have so many kids over for sleepovers' etc
 
monkeybarry said:
Parents and the industry need heavy scrutiny.

It comes down to responsibility.
I don't think it's realistic to judge MJ by societal norms, because he was never part of or exposed to societal norms.

He was created by an industry for our entertainment.
I don't think he can be held or considered responsible (i use that word in all contexts).

There were, however, plenty of responsible adults (I would not class MK as an adult at any point) around.
I suspect many of them put dollar before decency.
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What’s this got to do with me??
 
Spursman said:
I'm a massive Micahel Jackson fan and growing up used to try copy his moves and sing his songs. I still listen to his music pretty much every day. It's hard for me to watch but the fan in me says he is innocent. He was a troubled soul and seemed to feel hurt when he would see bad things in the world. He did love children and their innocence. I have only watched the first episode but I am not convinced he was a pedo. Maybe I just don't want to believe it.
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Macauley is that you?
 
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