KEANE & VIERA ITV4 NOW.....worth a watch.

[Baleforce]

13 league titles
4 FA cups
4 league cups
2 European cups

I'm not saying giggs was Maradonna but he's much nearer to that envelope than he is to the likes of pires/overmars/Ginola IMO

 

[SteveAWOL]

The surprisingly excellent Bleacher Report has an interesting slideshow on the 50 Best Defensive Midfielders of all time. Some ridiculously great footballers in there, and they have Keane at #4, Viera #23:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/949512-50-best-defensive-midfielders-in-world-football-history

(Use keyboard arrow keys to scroll quickly).

Nice to see three Spurs players making their list: Ardilles at #19, Davids at #24 and McKay at #37.

Hopefully we'll see Sandro recognised as one of the all time greats in years to come too.

 

[braineclipse]

It's one of the great urban myths of modern football that Keane's "tackle" (it wasn't actually a tackle - it was an assault) ended Haaland's career. It didn't. Keane hit Haaland's tailing right leg - but the cause of Haaland's retirement was an on-going, chronic problem with his left leg. People forget that Haaland played on in that game and played for Norway and City in subsequent weeks too.

Haaland via Wiki:

So, if it had been a totally different tackle it would have been much worse? That's an "if my aunt had nuts..." quote. Another Haaland quote from Wiki:

It was chronic problems with Haaland's left leg that did for him, not Keane's tackle on his right.

In a weird way it was in both Keane and Haaland's interests to perpetuate the myth the tackle was more serious than it was. Keane because it bolstered him image and ego as a hard man, and Haaland because he got to play the victim card and potentially a payout from United/Keane. I think that's what happened.


Quotes from Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alf-Inge_Håland#Feud_with_Manchester_United_and_Roy_Keane

Cheers for that, I had obviously completely missed out on that information.

I would still say that regardless of the outcome going out on a pitch with the intention of hurting another player compared to going out to injury another player is not that far away. And quite frankly if the kind of tackle he put in on Haaland was representative for him "just wanting to hurt another player" then there's no real difference at all.

I have no respect for Roy Keane myself. The man was a thug, first and foremost, and a footballer second. A slightly more talented Lee Cattermole.

Man Utd weren't successful because of him. They were successful because of the talent around him. The likes of Cantona, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Yorke, Cole, Sheringham and so on. Roy Keane was just the man taking out the garbage in the middle of the park, and a hell of a lot of other players in the world could have done the same job as him.

He was way beyond slightly more talented than Lee Cattermole. An excellent player in my book. But still a thug and my thoughts on him are similar to those I have about Suarez. Top class players in different ways, deserve a lot of credit for that. But also complete ****ing dingdongheads that deserve a lot of flak for some of their actions.

(Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the racism issue with Suarez, but rather the biting, cheating, general ****manship)

 

[Jurgen the German]

His performance away to Juventus in the Champions league semi final was outstanding. Don't think Lee Catermole could have produced anything close to that. Keane was a great footballer, not just someone to rough up the opposition.

When those two teams were going for the title in a two horse race, more often than not the games between the two decided the title. Keane once scored both goals at Highbury in a 2-1 win.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I always thought Giggs was overrated. That's not saying he is ****, he's a great player, in his peak he was quick could beat a man and could score a great goal but I don't even think he's as good as Gareth Bale. Fantastic career though.

Beckham would be in my overrated list. I just don't understand why none of the top clubs he played for wanted to keep him long term. Great crosser of the ball and fantastic at set pieces, but as an all round player he was overrated. I'm sure some diehard Becks fans will now line up to give me a kicking :lol:

 

[Neymar]

13 league titles
4 FA cups
4 league cups
2 European cups

I'm not saying giggs was Maradonna but he's much nearer to that envelope than he is to the likes of pires/overmars/Ginola IMO

Those accolades were acheived as a team. Im not saying giggs didnt play a big part in it, but there will be many average players who also benefitted simply by being part of the manutd roster.

If you look at goals/assist stats and "team of the years" , i suspect you will be surprised.

Pires at his prime was simply way better than giggs ever was imo. Pires has also won a "genuine" player of the year award for being the best player in the premier league in 2002, whilst Giggs has also only won one (in 2009) but for largely sentimental reasons.

 

[seaside spur]

I have no respect for Roy Keane myself. The man was a thug, first and foremost, and a footballer second. A slightly more talented Lee Cattermole.

Man Utd weren't successful because of him. They were successful because of the talent around him. The likes of Cantona, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Yorke, Cole, Sheringham and so on. Roy Keane was just the man taking out the garbage in the middle of the park, and a hell of a lot of other players in the world could have done the same job as him.

Wow, just wow! You can't be serious.
Did you see Keanes early career? At Forest as an Attacking or box to box midfielder he was immense(and not really a thug iirc). I always thought he was better for Forest than at Utd where he seemed to lose a yard of pace and played deeper.

Anyway, he is, imo, one of the greatest midfielders of the Premier league era.

 

[Superted]

13 league titles
4 FA cups
4 league cups
2 European cups

I'm not saying giggs was Maradonna but he's much nearer to that envelope than he is to the likes of pires/overmars/Ginola IMO

Phil Neville has a similar record. Just saying ....

 

[Baleforce]

Phil Neville has a similar record. Just saying ....

just half as many league titles and European cups

 

[Neymar]

just half as many league titles and European cups

hence highlighting the fact that giggs has had a great career (to be at such a consistent level over a long period of time). Not necessarily showing that he was quite at that "elite" level in his prime.

 

[the dza]

Rooney isn't fit to lace the boots of some of the players that you could've chosen

Nonsense.

 

[jts1882]

Rooney doesn't really qualify for Keane's selection as they only overlapped a year. Come to think about it, Ronaldo wasn't that great in his time with Keane, so perhaps Giggs should have been in the team.

 

[Baleforce]

hence highlighting the fact that giggs has had a great career (to be at such a consistent level over a long period of time). Not necessarily showing that he was quite at that "elite" level in his prime.

it was more to highlight the difference between Giggs and players that had won comparatively little, I agree his honour roll doesn't show he was elite, his ability and performance over many years did that

 

[Neymar]

it was more to highlight the difference between Giggs and players that had won comparatively little, I agree his honour roll doesn't show he was elite, his ability and performance over many years did that

yh i see what you mean. but i just think giggs is now up there with some of the most overrated players in the world.

he's never had a season that the likes of pires, bale, robben, henry, ronaldo, overmars have had, but so many people now seem to think giggs at his prime was some sort of GHod.

 

[Baleforce]

yh i see what you mean. but i just think giggs is now up there with some of the most overrated players in the world.

he's never had a season that the likes of pires, bale, robben, henry, ronaldo, overmars have had, but so many people now seem to think giggs at his prime was some sort of GHod.

I think he did, many seasons like that, I'm not arguing that his goal and assist stats match those named as they clearly don't, but his influence was the equivalent of any of them

 

[Neymar]

I think he did, many seasons like that, I'm not arguing that his goal and assist stats match those named as they clearly don't, but his influence was the equivalent of any of them

i have to disagree to be honest. if i remeber correctly wasnt there rumours that fergie wanted to sell giggs in the early 2000's?
perhaps for giggs, his prime was in his early 20's. and he would definitely have been one of the best 21 year olds around at the time. but for me, when you compare say a 28 year old giggs vs a pires, its no competition.

 

[Baleforce]

later in his career his influence was less as united had other weapons granted and he took a more central less explosive role, I'm talking about the 90's giggs, the lightning left winger, the guy Juve and inter tried to buy for world record fees

 

[Neymar]

the giggs of the 90's was a top player for sure. probably a top 5 left winger in the epl, but was never the best one. and this was at a time when the epl was probably the 3rd or 4th best league in the world.

When we're talking about the likes of pires and bale, they are arguably the best left wingers in the world.

 

[Baleforce]

think we are getting farther apart here mate ;-)

in the 90's he was the best winger in the pl by some distance, I'd say he was the best player in the pl for most of that decade as well

bit early to put bale against him but there are certainly similarities in their style, I'm not with you at all with pires though, I'd have him as a very good player (for 3/4 years) but no more than that

 

[Neymar]

i guess we'll have to disagree here then tbh. but for me, even as a spurs fan, overmars and pires were far more impressive than giggs ever was.

and bale's season with us last year alone at the age of 23/24 was far better than any season giggs has ever had for me.