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Just how poor are England

Jurgen the German said:
Nothing will change until we can produce players who are good on the ball. We need to start focusing on skill rather than physical attributes. More 5 and 8 a side games at younger age levels.
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I heard an interview with Marc Bircham a little while ago, he has some very progressive views on kid's football, he spoke very well and made a lot of sense.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
Yep

really the premership needs to be 2 teams smaller and we need a winter break, i would also suggest more international get togethers like the do in the rugby, does not always mean you have to play a match you can just let the coach do behind closed doors training.

For fear of becoming a caricature of myself, but when you have talented young english players like carroll and townsend and they are not playing regular in the top league either with us or some place else, that is the problem. Im fully aware of the EU law but my opinon on the EU is for the other side of this site.

Also i remember reading that each summer tournament england qualify for generates 1billion for the economy so i actually feel the government hae a duty to act to improve the standard.

Another thing, other teams in the world hae caught up with the old european nations. I actually prefer to watch the africans play football, they hae skill but don't fudge about like the spainish they play with pace, we get stuck behind the whole we must pass pass all the time when we should use our national characteristics and use power and pace.
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The winter break point is an interesing one. Talk to players who play in other European leagues and they will tell you how the winter break refreshes them mentally and physically, but the number of games Barca play for example doesn't seem to hamper them or Spain which a large part of their team play for Barca.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Nothing will change until we can produce players who are good on the ball. We need to start focusing on skill rather than physical attributes. More 5 and 8 a side games at younger age levels.
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It's worse than that. Kids nowadays don't play as much football as they used to. Too many alternatives to amuse their time, and streets are too busy/crowded to play football on. Paradoxically the population in the UK has grown, but the pool of kids to choose from has shrunk. It's happening in a lot of first world countries. Immigration may be the thing that saves English football, but we won't see that until the first or second generation of kids.
 
Of course he wasn't but given our position most clubs would have tried to battle there way out of trouble and gone for experience. I'm making the point we took the long view because getting relegated was not the end of the world back then. England always were prepared to drop him after a defeat and wasted a great talent and ran away from him when he was manager, He should be the manager now.
 
Jumpers said:
It's worse than that. Kids nowadays don't play as much football as they used to. Too many alternatives to amuse their time, and streets are too busy/crowded to play football on. Paradoxically the population in the UK has grown, but the pool of kids to choose from has shrunk. It's happening in a lot of first world countries. Immigration may be the thing that saves English football, but we won't see that until the first or second generation of kids.
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People have been saying that for twenty years or more, I heard someone blaming England's failure to qualify for a tournament on Sonic The Hedgehog, that in itself dates the conversation somewhat and we've had a golden generation since that quote was made so I don't buy that one. When my son was younger and playing kids football there were armies of parents out every weekend driving their kids to games and cheering them on from the touchline. The same at midweek training nights and late season matches on lighter nights. My missus and her mates never got a minute to themselves at weekends ferrying kids around. My son is now 18 and so exactly the age group that you're talking about as not coming through.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Of course he wasn't but given our position most clubs would have tried to battle there way out of trouble and gone for experience. I'm making the point we took the long view because getting relegated was not the end of the world back then. England always were prepared to drop him after a defeat and wasted a great talent and ran away from him when he was manager, He should be the manager now.
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This i agree on and rio ferdinand sort of saaid as much the other day.
 
I enjoyed that game, to be honest. Both sides clearly gave a crap (unlike most friendlies), and the travelling Scots were brilliantly loud and decidedly cheeky at times, which the home crowd responded to with relish. Lambert's debut goal warmed the ****les of my heart a bit (finally called up at 31 years old and scores the winning goal against the Scots: a moment he'll probably savour for the rest of his life) and gave the game that touch of sentimentality every truly memorable football game needs.

Sure, at times most of the players out there couldn't trap a bag of cement, but the game was frenetic, direct and played at a high tempo: the kind of up and at 'em game the British isles were once renowned for.

Still, modern football leaves no room for that sort of thing, so regardless of my enjoyment I have to admit that England were rather poor from the modern standpoint. Still, there's a new generation coming, and I do have hopes for the likes of Carroll, Shaw, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ince, Hughes, Powell and Chalobah, all of whom have technical ability, footballing intelligence and a willingness to work with their team-mates, which the 'Golden Generation' (hah!) lacked. They'll do well, even if no one in that U-21 team is likely to become a world-beater on par with the talent coming out from Belgium, Germany, France and Spain.

They'll play as a team, reach the knockout rounds of a few competitions. Hell, maybe even the quarter-finals occasionally. But no more. However, when they give way to the generation after them, they'll hopefully have set a precedent for a team ethic and style of play that will stand the players that come after them in good stead. How those players do will then depend largely on clubs like us developing players to suit today's needs, which I'm glad to see we seem to be doing.
 
Jumpers said:
It's worse than that. Kids nowadays don't play as much football as they used to. Too many alternatives to amuse their time, and streets are too busy/crowded to play football on. Paradoxically the population in the UK has grown, but the pool of kids to choose from has shrunk. It's happening in a lot of first world countries. Immigration may be the thing that saves English football, but we won't see that until the first or second generation of kids.
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Because English kids are the only ones with an Xbox?
 
Gordinho said:
People have been saying that for twenty years or more, I heard someone blaming England's failure to qualify for a tournament on Sonic The Hedgehog, that in itself dates the conversation somewhat and we've had a golden generation since that quote was made so I don't buy that one. When my son was younger and playing kids football there were armies of parents out every weekend driving their kids to games and cheering them on from the touchline. The same at midweek training nights and late season matches on lighter nights. My missus and her mates never got a minute to themselves at weekends ferrying kids around. My son is now 18 and so exactly the age group that you're talking about as not coming through.
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And I'd say they were right. The last great crop of English players were from the 1980's. There have been a few individuals since then, but not many and those individuals have never hit the ability levels of a Chris Waddle or John Barnes, let alone a Paul Gascoigne or Glenn Hoddle.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Because English kids are the only ones with an Xbox?
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First world countries. Not just England. At the moment there is a general recognised dearth globally of talent, and the talent that is there tends to come from non-first world countries such as Brazil, Spain, Italy etc. Germany, as ever, seems to rock the boat but even they aren't a patch on what they used to be. Neither are Holland. And the decline of ability in Sweden, Denmark and Norway is absolutely startling.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I enjoyed that game, to be honest. Both sides clearly gave a crap (unlike most friendlies), and the travelling Scots were brilliantly loud and decidedly cheeky at times, which the home crowd responded to with relish. Lambert's debut goal warmed the ****les of my heart a bit (finally called up at 31 years old and scores the winning goal against the Scots: a moment he'll probably savour for the rest of his life) and gave the game that touch of sentimentality every truly memorable football game needs.

Sure, at times most of the players out there couldn't trap a bag of cement, but the game was frenetic, direct and played at a high tempo: the kind of up and at 'em game the British isles were once renowned for.

Still, modern football leaves no room for that sort of thing, so regardless of my enjoyment I have to admit that England were rather poor from the modern standpoint. Still, there's a new generation coming, and I do have hopes for the likes of Carroll, Shaw, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ince, Hughes, Powell and Chalobah, all of whom have technical ability, footballing intelligence and a willingness to work with their team-mates, which the 'Golden Generation' (hah!) lacked. They'll do well, even if no one in that U-21 team is likely to become a world-beater on par with the talent coming out from Belgium, Germany, France and Spain.

They'll play as a team, reach the knockout rounds of a few competitions. Hell, maybe even the quarter-finals occasionally. But no more. However, when they give way to the generation after them, they'll hopefully have set a precedent for a team ethic and style of play that will stand the players that come after them in good stead. How those players do will then depend largely on clubs like us developing players to suit today's needs, which I'm glad to see we seem to be doing.
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Hear hear. Most I've enjoyed watching England in years. Thought there was some promising stuff in there. When will we stop comparing our team to the best in the world?
 
Jumpers said:
And I'd say they were right. The last great crop of English players were from the 1980's. There have been a few individuals since then, but not many and those individuals have never hit the ability levels of a Chris Waddle or John Barnes, let alone a Paul Gascoigne or Glenn Hoddle.
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Some people would beg to differ, we (England) had a great team for a few tournaments but I'd say the the combination of some bad management decisions and the corrosive influence of Terry splitting the squad in two robbed us of our greatest opportunity to win something since the World Cup tournaments of 1966 and 1970. (That's all opinion rather than fact and so may not be admissible) ;)
 
IMO Baines is the only player (excluding Walker) who would make our starting 11.

Lloris > Hart

Walker = Walker
Kaboul > Cahill
Verts > Jagielka
Baines > BAE

Sandro > Cleverly
Dembele > Wiltshire
Paulinho > Gerrard

Bale > Walcott
Soldado > Rooney
Chaldli > Welbeck



Apparently Hughes, Shelvey, Redmond and Sterling all looked decent for the U21s last night though, so some hope perhaps.
 
sorry probably not the right place to put this but have we survived this round of friendlies without picking up any injuries to our players??????

well pleased for Lambert tonight though...... well done lad........thought it was a great game............this fixture should be held every two years imo.
 
Gutter Boy said:
IMO Baines is the only player (excluding Walker) who would make our starting 11.

Lloris > Hart

Walker = Walker
Kaboul > Cahill
Verts > Jagielka
Baines > BAE

Sandro > Cleverly
Dembele > Wiltshire
Paulinho > Gerrard

Bale > Walcott
Soldado > Rooney
Chaldli > Welbeck



Apparently Hughes, Shelvey, Redmond and Sterling all looked decent for the U21s last night though, so some hope perhaps.
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that is some serious spurs tinted goggles on there though. Wiltsher although a little scum bag is a very good player. And is just as good if not better than Dembele and will only get better as he is only 21. Paulinhio has proved noting yet for us or in the premiership, so to pick him over Gerrard is ludicrous. Same again with Chadli, not proved nothing yet and I dont know how you can choose Soldado over Rooney.
 
Nigeyman said:
sorry probably not the right place to put this but have we survived this round of friendlies without picking up any injuries to our players??????

well pleased for Lambert tonight though...... well done lad........thought it was a great game............this fixture should be held every two years imo.
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hopefully, this is the only thing that matters, putting international games 3 days before the start of the season is ridiculous even for qualifiers, allowing friendlies to be played in the same window is lunacy
 
Just back from Wembley. Honestly was like watching two pub teams. Truly shocking football.

I thought the worse thing was Danny Wellbeck getting MoM. Then I realised he actually was MoM, which immediately became the new worse thing.

Depressing.
 
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