nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
We have a specialised RB in KWP who cant seem to buy a game. Poch would seemingly rather play a mannequin from the training ground that give the lad a run....
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Juan Foyth
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
We have a specialised RB in KWP who cant seem to buy a game. Poch would seemingly rather play a mannequin from the training ground that give the lad a run....
Says something about KWP doesn't it?
We tend to be blind about homegrown, it was clear on KWP a year ago that he wasn't going to be top half PL quality. The true crime is Poch not prioritizing a RB over summer.
To keep on thread, Foyth was very conservative in the game, played simple, safe almost everytime.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
It really does.
The question is though, in terms of getting the most out of your squad, is KWP really a worse option than
- Aurier playing suicidal and completely unreliable
- Sissoko who, with the best will in the world, is not a defender or
- Foyth, a CB, and prone to rash actions (I really do love him though). Literally played less than a handful of games as RB (and yet to look natural doing it)
Im not a KWP fan boy, I dont think Ive ever championed him to play, but I look at our situation and am baffled that a steady, reliable - if unspectacular - proper RB, schooled through the club, cant buy a game.
When all alternatives are considered, he should be our starting RB for now, IMO. Correct in January, but until then he is surely the best option?
StephenH
David Ginola
The RB situation is a great example of Poch's current muddled thinking.
Trippier now holds down a regular place at Atletico. Yes, Tripps has his faults and he's no Maldini but I'd still play him over our current crop.
glasgowspur
Andy Thompson
Hm, as I recall you were very happy, eager even to see him go.
Don't it always seem to go...........
I'm sure you know the rest so sing along.
Tripps will fail here, just as KWP will and why unlike @nayimfromthehalfwayline I wouldn't play him, because we are still are trying to play Rose/Walker with inferior players, hence it makes the situation worse.
The smart option would be Toby potentially at FB (he has played there for Belgium), Foyth/Sanchez/Dier who are all natural CB's covering the CB slot and having the back 4 or 5 playing defensive (not trying to push up, not trying to overlap, providing width, etc.). Let the fudging defenders defend and use the amazing amount of attackers we have go score vs. having a system that somehow is expecting a KWP to make a difference to our attack.
fernadez
Jermaine Jenas
Don't see any downturn in performances in the position since he left. He wasn't good enough, neither were the alternatives. If we're meant to be going through this great rebuilding then he had to be sold and reports say Serge was up for sale as well.
Sod knows what the plan was after that though, I would like to think it was to sell both of them and bring in a ready to go replacement, but knowing where Poch's head is at the moment I'm expecting to see Lo Celso play there when he's fit.
Sod knows what the plan was after that though, I would like to think it was to sell both of them and bring in a ready to go replacement, but knowing where Poch's head is at the moment I'm expecting to see Lo Celso play there when he's fit.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
You first line - my response was going to be that that is a management issue, and it should be accommodated. Perhaps a more defensive set up etc...
Then you basically show agreement in your second paragraph. Yet, quite madly, suggest Alderweireld as a better option?!
Im not championing KWP as the future, I never have - and dont believe it.
But right now? I think he is the best option, and a good manager makes the most of it - potentially by adjusting things to suit the players (squads?) limitations rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole...
I thought KWP was a decent option until I saw one of his last games and Aurier's first game back, KWP has a serious weakness against balls played wide in the air (Aurier attacks it), too easy to target even if he sits back.
To me I'd trust Toby defensively more (as long as he sits back), he's not as vulnerable to the ball in air or physicality and he can ping some passes from his out wide position. Just a personal call
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
And he cant be coached on that? And the team cant accomodate him (as you suggest for others)?
I understand the idea of Toby being more of a defender, but I cant get past the point where his legs are too far gone for him to be a CB, so how the hell does he have the legs to play FB?!
Would make more sense, IMO, to go 3 at the back like we did before with Sanchez central adding pace.
Allows the wing backs to be more offence oriented and probably suits everyone better...
We don't have time to teach anyone on the job, this is the flaw of playing at this level .. again, choices.
I just don't agree with the last part and I think it's Poch's downfall. The Walker/Rose of 3 years ago doesn't exist, the personnel we have provide basically nothing going forward (with exception of Aurier who has his own issues), the risk/reward for using the FBs we have offensively is simply not worth the model. Let them defend, figure out how to get width and attacking from midfield.
This is what annoys me about Aurier, he has demonstrated he can do everything we require. He can be strong defensively, offer width and an outlet attacking, can cross a ball (albeit like most full backs consistently not great), but the does something ridiculous in between which fudges up all the good work he can/does do.....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Ive been a long standing advocate of him for those reasons, but I think Im past the point of "give him a chance" now, I think he has proven he simply cannot be relied upon.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
I agree with you completely. I don't think KWP has ever looked particularly bad for us. I think he perhaps lacks a bit of confidence and arrogance but a lot of that is because, irrespective of his age, he is still a boy in a man's World.
IMO this is where Pochettino's lack of belief/use in loaning out players is hurting us significantly.
in 2017/18 and 2018/19 KWP could've been playing first team football for a Championship club. Gaining experience and confidence and also giving us a proper view on whether or not he might be good enough to become a viable right back for our first team.
Most of the young players who have come through and established themselves in our first team recently have come through this route. Harry Winks is the exception here, not the rule. I think Skipp and KWP need to be loaned out asap. Parrot and Tananga should get loans next season. That way we get an idea on whether they are likely to sink or swim and we can plan accordingly.
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Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
A year or two ago I would agree with you about Toby. However seeing how much he seems to have struggled this season with players running at him one on one I don't think it is an option now. Our system relies on our full backs being heavily involved in our passing football going forwards and also the full backs giving us our width in attack. We therefore need our full backs to be good on the ball, athletic and have the energy/confidence to get forward. for me that rules out Alderweireld, Sanchez and Dier straight away, leaving Sissoko (probably the next worst player on the ball in our squad after Sanchez and Dier so maybe not a great option), Foyth (I'm not yet sure if he would be athletic enough or good enough on the ball), KWP (probably actually OK in everything other than the confidence part) and Aurier (despite of everything he might actually be the best of a not so good bunch).
Of course the other thing to do is change the shape so that width is instead provided by the forwards and the full backs can concentrate on defending which would bring Foyth and Dier back into contention).
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afsoc4life
Dean Richards
Foyth plays RB for Argentina? If he does it is a good thing for Spurs. Welcome back Foyth.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I dont have a particular stake in the loan/dont loan argument, if it works then Im fine.
I think what KWP shows though is an instance of it really not working.
If Poch keeps these players around, he really is obliged to do something with them.
In the case of Skipp he is young enough there is probably value in keeping him around, training with the first team etc - but there will absolutely come a time when he needs games above all else. At that point either play him or find him an appropriate team to play for (and there are plenty around).
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
I think Skip needs those games now. I have watched him play for our under 23s and he is too good for that level. He isn't learning anything in those games. However it seems he's not yet properly trusted to play for our first team. Him going out and playing real football at a good level (the Championship is a good level and a very good barometer of whether a player will make it in the PL IMO) would tell Pochettino whether he has that final 5% that separates good youth players from proper first team players IMO.