Josh Onomah

[spurspinter1]

Honestly, grow up. You come across as petulant 12 year old trying to be clever. Maybe you are though and that's what explains it. If you watched the Villa game yesterday and want to respond to my (very balanced) post just after 930pm yesterday, then happy to discuss it. If not, please be quiet and suggest you go to bed anyway as its probably past your bed time

You liked my post of a similar snarky nature aimed at GB in the loan thread, try not being so precious or don't jump on the bandwagon when it's aimed at others. Can't have it both ways sunshine!

There's no point debating with you regarding Onomah, it's as if we're watching completely two different players and it's been that way from early days.

 

[AdamB]

Adam man, I don't think anyone thinks all Spurs youth players are gonna be heroes, just that in the case of Onamah in particular, you chose to pick at his work rate despite him being publicly highly regarded by Poch, a coach who would have no time to give the most talented footballer in the world if they didn't have the right mentality.

Hey - I pick at his work-rate in the same way that I would say that Lloris can't kick, Janssen is slow, Lamela needs to toughen up etc etc. Just because someone plays for Spurs doesnt mean that we should be blind to their failings - its a common thing though for fans of any club to be particularly blind to weaknesses of young players. Agree about your comment re Poch and work-rate, though if you look at the comments which Poch made when Onomah went to Villa it was along the lines of 'he's got a pile of natural ability and could be a no 8, 7, 10, 11 etc but he needs to want it'...though given it was in Poch-English, it was very open to interpretation! I'll see if I can dig it out

spurspinter1's post at 806pm was just child-ish and ignoring what I'd said about Onomah completely. Similarly his one which followed-up after that suggests he's just some troll or child who GG could do without

Moving on, I like our 2 year and loan rule. I think what it also does is ingrain the players with 'good habits' and enables them to be men on loan who will be their teams difference makers, as opposed to youngsters who are happy to be there. So in the case of Onamah, his positioning, his appreciation of space, his decision making, it's all stuff that would have been coached well over the last 2 years. But in addition to that, his willingness to gonad established senior players if they aren't pressing when they're supposed to is a great 'habit' that is going to really impress Poch when he tracks his progress. It's that sort of winners mentality that will hopefully be demonstrated as within the player now, because he's been around it for so long. He should bring the team up to his level. If he send him on a relatively high pressure loan without being fully ingrained in Poch's and methods, there's a chance they are overawed and fall to the level of the team they are at.

I like this new 2 year rule as well, partly because if someone simply hasnt played much for 2 years then they need to get out there and prove themselves and play in some competitive games. Someone should have been instilled with the right mentality as you say after 2 years, so then going and proving that makes sense

 

[AdamB]

You liked my post of a similar snarky nature aimed at GB in the loan thread, try not being so precious or don't jump on the bandwagon when it's aimed at others. Can't have it both ways sunshine!

There's no point debating with you regarding Onomah, it's as if we're watching completely two different players and it's been that way from early days.

You have decided to completely ignore my post yesterday about the villa game and just come up with some insulting garbage. Did you watch the villa game yesterday? Did you actually read what I posted after it? How about responding to that rather than posting childish rubbish which just incites arguments?

 

[Yoof]

The reality is that thinking about the number of people coming through any academy, if you look across the league then no more than 1 or 2 can ultimately go on to be professionals

Define "professionals".

 

[spurspinter1]

You have decided to completely ignore my post yesterday about the villa game and just come up with some insulting garbage. Did you watch the villa game yesterday? Did you actually read what I posted after it? How about responding to that rather than posting childish rubbish which just incites arguments?

We will get nowhere and end up drawing a line like with Milo in the previous discussion after agreeing to disagree but so far it's been interesting to see how touchy you are when called out.

I didn't see the game but the villa fans I've spoken to since the result (due to my unfortunate location) don't have the same opinion regarding the negatives.

I personally don't want to have a DM that runs around full pelt constantly as that's a clear indication of poor reading of the game. Lewis Holtby could run like a mad motherfudger but it wasn't enough to keep him in the Spurs team, we need more awareness. Like I said, from the start our views on his appearances completely differ. We are not going to get anywhere, as to me Josh didn't look out of place or languid in his early appearances for 5 mins here or there when he first came in to the team. I'm not going to change my mind on that and you won't for your opinion.

 

[AdamB]

Define "professionals".

A player who earns his living from playing football!!

 

[milo]

A player who earns his living from playing football!!

You think that only one or two players coming through the academy will go on to earn a living playing football?

 

[AdamB]

We will get nowhere and end up drawing a line like with Milo in the previous discussion after agreeing to disagree but so far it's been interesting to see how touchy you are when called out.

I'm happy to have my views challenged on anything, however all your posts this evening haven't been about football or opinions on football - they've just been insults which have aimed to create arguments. There hasnt been anything about Onomah at all nor which responds to my post after the villa game yesterday. Its why you come across as a troll or a child

 

[milo]

I'm happy to have my views challenged on anything, however all your posts this evening haven't been about football or opinions on football - they've just been insults which have aimed to create arguments. There hasnt been anything about Onomah at all nor which responds to my post after the villa game yesterday. Its why you come across as a troll or a child

Adam, I've had a read through this evening's posts as a result of seeing this. I think that you need to calm down a little. @spurspinter1 made a joke early on which you seemed to take exception too. I don't think that he has insulted you or anyone else. You've called him a child twice. It's time to give it a break. Thanks.

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm happy to have my views challenged on anything, however all your posts this evening haven't been about football or opinions on football - they've just been insults which have aimed to create arguments. There hasnt been anything about Onomah at all nor which responds to my post after the villa game yesterday. Its why you come across as a troll or a child

If my inital post comes across as an insult then I apologise as it was a joke, not intend to cause offense.

As I've said a few times, we won't get anywhere debating the pros and cons of Onomah as we have totally conflicting views.

 

[AdamB]

You think that only one or two players coming through the academy will go on to earn a living playing football?

Playing professional, so say league football, yes. Roughly.
- Assume 2 players per year come from our academy and become pros
- Assume a 15 year professional career
- That's 30 players from our academy at any one team playing pro football
- Assume each club has a youth system so each has also produced 30 players at any one time.....that's 30 pros per league club

Factor in that we're a massive net importer of footballers, rather than exporter, and its far fewer than that


Look at it another way. Assume 92 clubs (professional) in England has an average squad of say 20 players. Thats 1840 players. Assume a 15 year pro career and ignore overseas players, that means you need the entire youth system in England to produce 123 players per year (ie 1840/15).

If there's 20 good academies producing 2 players, then thats 40 of those 123 each year and then the other 72 clubs with less good youth systems produce the other 83 (ie 123 minus 40)...so roughly one each. Factor in overseas players, and those numbers come down a lot

 

[AdamB]

If my inital post comes across as an insult then I apologise as it was a joke, not intend to cause offense.

As I've said a few times, we won't get anywhere debating the pros and cons of Onomah as we have totally conflicting views.

Apology accepted. It wasn't necessarily offensive but it came across as someone just trying to incite arguments given that it ignored what had been posted

 

[AdamB]

Adam, I've had a read through this evening's posts as a result of seeing this. I think that you need to calm down a little. @spurspinter1 made a joke early on which you seemed to take exception too. I don't think that he has insulted you or anyone else. You've called him a child twice. It's time to give it a break. Thanks.

See my reply to him. I accept his apology. His posts have come across as just trying to incite arguments by attributing views to me which were contrary to what I had posted, apparently now in jest

 

[milo]

Playing professional, so say league football, yes. Roughly.
- Assume 2 players per year come from our academy and become pros
- Assume a 15 year professional career
- That's 30 players from our academy at any one team playing pro football
- Assume each club has a youth system so each has also produced 30 players at any one time.....that's 30 pros per league club

Factor in that we're a massive net importer of footballers, rather than exporter, and its far fewer than that


Look at it another way. Assume 92 clubs (professional) in England has an average squad of say 20 players. Thats 1840 players. Assume a 15 year pro career and ignore overseas players, that means you need the entire youth system in England to produce 123 players per year (ie 1840/15).

If there's 20 good academies producing 2 players, then thats 40 of those 123 each year and then the other 72 clubs with less good youth systems produce the other 83 (ie 123 minus 40)...so roughly one each. Factor in overseas players, and those numbers come down a lot

I've had a look at our U21 squad from five years ago. These are the main players and where they are now:

Archer - Millwall - Scotland international
Bentaleb - Schalke - Algerian international
Bostock - RC Lens
Button - Fulham
Byrne - Wigan Athletic
Carroll - Swansea City
Caulker - QPR
Ceballos - Sint-Truiden
Coulibaly - Al Ahly
Coulthirst - Barnet
Ekong - Bursaspor
Falque - Torino
Fredericks - Fulham
Fryers - Barnsley
Gallifouco - Dover Athletic
Gomelt - HNK Rijeka
Hall - Queens Park Rangers
Kane - Tottenham Hotspur - England captain
Livermore - WBA - England international
Luongo - QPR
Mason - Hull City
Miles - Margate - on loan from Ebbsfleet United
Munns - Hartlepool United
Obika - Oxford United
Parrett - AFC Wimbledon
Pritchard - Norwich City
Stewart - Hull City
Townsend - Crystal Palace - England international
Veljkovic - Werder Bremen

 

[milo]

See my reply to him. I accept his apology. His posts have come across as just trying to incite arguments by attributing views to me which were contrary to what I had posted, apparently now in jest

I think that it was clear that they were always in jest

 

[AdamB]

I've had a look at our U21 squad from five years ago. These are the main players and where they are now:

Archer - Millwall - Scotland international
Bentaleb - Schalke - Algerian international
Bostock - RC Lens
Button - Fulham
Byrne - Wigan Athletic
Carroll - Swansea City
Ceballos - Sint-Truiden
Coulibaly - Al Ahly
Ekong - Bursaspor
Falque - Torino
Fredericks - Fulham
Fryers - Barnsley
Gomelt - HNK Rijeka
Hall - Queens Park Rangers
Kane - Tottenham Hotspur - England captain
Mason - Hull City
Miles - Margate - on loan from Ebbsfleet United
Munns - Hartlepool United
Obika - Oxford United
Parrett - AFC Wimbledon
Pritchard - Norwich City
Stewart - Hull City
Townsend - Crystal Palace - England international
Veljkovic - Werder Bremen

If its the same in 5 years time then it'll clear the stadium debt quickly! Feels like we had a massive gap between say rSol and King and then this group; hopefully the recent group will be the norm particuarly given all the investment into it

 

[AdamB]

I think that it was clear that they were always in jest

Feels like they were always there to provoke an argument given that they didn't have anything in relation to the topic

 

[milo]

If its the same in 5 years time then it'll clear the stadium debt quickly! Feels like we had a massive gap between say rSol and King and then this group; hopefully the recent group will be the norm particuarly given all the investment into it

I can go through the following years but I think that you will find the same story. I think that the investment in the academy has already paid off, not every academy player has to go on to play for the first team to be good business. I take it that you accept that your one or two players comment was wrong and that the vast majority of them go on to have careers as professional footballers.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If its the same in 5 years time then it'll clear the stadium debt quickly! Feels like we had a massive gap between say rSol and King and then this group; hopefully the recent group will be the norm particuarly given all the investment into it

The club focus now has changed to developing genuine players rather than the odd gem and it pays for itself that way. Add innwprld class talent like Kane and world class youth signings like Alli and Dier (not debating what isneprld class on the thread) and it really doesn't stack up in business terms massively

 

[milo]

Feels like they were always there to provoke an argument given that they didn't have anything in relation to the topic

It was gentle ribbing, nothing more and if you had returned in kind, it would have been fine.