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Josh Onomah

milo said:
By this measure we should not have persevered with Kane or Lamela.
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Kane had several different loans to assist his development. Lamella was starring for Roma. Pritchard is currently out on loan to a PL side. Alli was loaned back to MK Dons last season. Wimmer is an Austrian international. Rose had a loan spell at Sunderland. etc etc.

Those are all completely different cases to someone with the highest level of experience to date being our Under 21s.

Whether he will be a class player or not only time will tell. Personally, I still think it is too early for him to be starting games for us at this critical stage of the season and it is only being "forced" because of injuries and a lack of squad depth as Poch was unable to get Berahino or Dembele in.
 
Pirate55 said:
Kane had several different loans to assist his development. Lamella was starring for Roma. Pritchard is currently out on loan to a PL side. Alli was loaned back to MK Dons last season. Wimmer is an Austrian international. Rose had a loan spell at Sunderland. etc etc.

Those are all completely different cases to someone with the highest level of experience to date being our Under 21s.

Whether he will be a class player or not only time will tell. Personally, I still think it is too early for him to be starting games for us at this critical stage of the season and it is only being "forced" because of injuries and a lack of squad depth as Poch was unable to get Berahino or Dembele in.
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The point is that Kane and Lamela were not putting in top quality performances when they were first getting time in our first team. If that is the criteria for young players breaking into the first team we might as well close the academy.

With regards to whether Onomah should be starting games, I doubt that we will see him starting in the Premier League this season and he has earnt his place on the bench. He has effectively replaced Townsend in the squad and is being used very similarly to how he was last season.

I'm sure you would agree that not all players are the same and that different players will develop at different rates or will take different paths to first team football.

Given that Poch currently has the best record of any manager in England (and Europe?) for bringing youth players through, I am prepared to trust his judgement on Onomah.
 
milo said:
The point is that Kane and Lamela were not putting in top quality performances when they were first getting time in our first team. If that is the criteria for young players breaking into the first team we might as well close the academy.

With regards to whether Onomah should be starting games, I doubt that we will see him starting in the Premier League this season and he has earnt his place on the bench. He has effectively replaced Townsend in the squad and is being used very similarly to how he was last season.

I'm sure you would agree that not all players are the same and that different players will develop at different rates or will take different paths to first team football.

Given that Poch currently has the best record of any manager in England (and Europe?) for bringing youth players through, I am prepared to trust his judgement on Onomah.
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You (and BE) seem hung up on this trust issue. No one (certainly not me) is not not trusting Poch. That doesn't invalidate a comment about whether a certain player would benefit from a loan to help his development. If Poch had signed Berahino or Dembele, do you really think he would be starting Omomah at such a crucial stage of our season when goal scoring is becoming a bit of an issue?

If you had read my posts, I agree with your statement that he should be on the bench and be an impact sub at present. From his appearances to date, for me he hasn't yet earned the right to start. That's not to say he won't. But for me he is currently well down the order in the selection stakes.
 
Pirate55 said:
You (and BE) seem hung up on this trust issue. No one (certainly not me) is not not trusting Poch. That doesn't invalidate a comment about whether a certain player would benefit from a loan to help his development. If Poch had signed Berahino or Dembele, do you really think he would be starting Omomah at such a crucial stage of our season when goal scoring is becoming a bit of an issue?
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I think the fans have insufficient information to make the call as to where Onomah's development would be best served.

I don't know whether Onomah would have played at the weekend had we signed Dembele or Berahino. They would not have been in direct competition for places, so it is not beyond the realms of possibility. Onomah also kept out Townsend in the first half of this season and he is far more experienced than either of those potential targets.
 
Pirate55 said:
You (and BE) seem hung up on this trust issue. No one (certainly not me) is not not trusting Poch. That doesn't invalidate a comment about whether a certain player would benefit from a loan to help his development. If Poch had signed Berahino or Dembele, do you really think he would be starting Omomah at such a crucial stage of our season when goal scoring is becoming a bit of an issue?

If you had read my posts, I agree with your statement that he should be on the bench and be an impact sub at present. From his appearances to date, for me he hasn't yet earned the right to start. That's not to say he won't. But for me he is currently well down the order in the selection stakes.
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Based on how you rate Onomah, saying that he could be an impact sub is a bit contradicting.

And perhaps Poch didn't push out the boat to get Berahino or Dembele, because he had Onomah?
 
afsoc4life said:
Onomah needs loan time. We need to see how he does with consistent game time and pressure.
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Loan time and a couple of goals, was really hoping he'd get a decent chance last night. Think his all round game is ok, but seems like he's feeling a little pressure to put one away.
 
milo said:
I think the fans have insufficient information to make the call as to where Onomah's development would be best served.

I don't know whether Onomah would have played at the weekend had we signed Dembele or Berahino. They would not have been in direct competition for places, so it is not beyond the realms of possibility. Onomah also kept out Townsend in the first half of this season and he is far more experienced than either of those potential targets.
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Would you like to take a bet with me right now that Onomah will be out on loan next season?

I say it as I see it. Of course Poch is in the best position to judge whether or not that is best for his development and if you constantly use the mantra that "fans have insufficient information" then of course that argument can be applied to just about anything. As I said, it doesnt invalidate forming a view and expressing an opinion from the sidelines.

PS shame we didn't get Sparta in the Round of 16 as I was offered great corporate hospitality from my wife's cousin. Maybe in the next round;)

Great value these Czech chicks!!
 
alekaras said:
Based on how you rate Onomah, saying that he could be an impact sub is a bit contradicting.

And perhaps Poch didn't push out the boat to get Berahino or Dembele, because he had Onomah?
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No contradiction at all. Selection from the bench is a totally different kettle of fish to being in the team from the start of a game.
 
Pirate55 said:
No contradiction at all. Selection from the bench is a totally different kettle of fish to being in the team from the start of a game.
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But an impact sub implies a player who's "been there, done that" who can affect a game off the bench. That's not how you describe Onomah in your posts.
 
alekaras said:
But an impact sub implies a player who's "been there, done that" who can affect a game off the bench. That's not how you describe Onomah in your posts.
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It does not imply that at all. Of course an 18 year old cannot by definition be a player that has "been there, done that". It sounds to me that you think from that comment that all subs should be experienced players with plenty of game time under their belts. On the other hand, in my opinion, an attacking sub is best to be someone that can offer something different to potentially change a game if we need to. Fresh legs and enthusiasm are great and the unknown factor can work from the bench but are not necessarily the requisite attributes from the start of the game.
 
Pirate55 said:
It does not imply that at all. Of course an 18 year old cannot by definition be a player that has "been there, done that". It sounds to me that you think from that comment that all subs should be experienced players with plenty of game time under their belts. On the other hand, in my opinion, an attacking sub is best to be someone that can offer something different to potentially change a game if we need to. Fresh legs and enthusiasm are great and the unknown factor can work from the bench but are not necessarily the requisite attributes from the start of the game.
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Nope, just impact subs. In any case, doesn't matter. I'm glad to see him start or come in as a sub and I think he is impactful whichever the case may be.
 
Pirate55 said:
Would you like to take a bet with me right now that Onomah will be out on loan next season?

I say it as I see it. Of course Poch is in the best position to judge whether or not that is best for his development and if you constantly use the mantra that "fans have insufficient information" then of course that argument can be applied to just about anything. As I said, it doesnt invalidate forming a view and expressing an opinion from the sidelines.

PS shame we didn't get Sparta in the Round of 16 as I was offered great corporate hospitality from my wife's cousin. Maybe in the next round;)

Great value these Czech chicks!!
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I don't see what would be gained from having a bet. I do not have a view on where Onomah's development would be best served, I don't have access to the right information to make a call on that. I am more interested in trying to understand Poch's thinking.

Shame about Sparta, I'm hoping to get them or Viktoria Plzen in the Champions League group stage.
 
milo said:
I don't see what would be gained from having a bet. I do not have a view on where Onomah's development would be best served, I don't have access to the right information to make a call on that. I am more interested in trying to understand Poch's thinking.

Shame about Sparta, I'm hoping to get them or Viktoria Plzen in the Champions League group stage.
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Here's to a pivo in Praha then. Nasdravee!
 
At the moment, he's part of the midfield rotation. Next season when N'jie and Pritchard are back in the mix, he may find chances hard to come by, in which case he could be best served by a loan.

The question would be where? Do we look for a loan to somewhere like West Brom where he might not get any time or do we drop him down into the Championship where he will be playing at a level below him. We want him to be challenged but to also get first team football, so it's got to be just right.
 
Cochise said:
At the moment, he's part of the midfield rotation. Next season when N'jie and Pritchard are back in the mix, he may find chances hard to come by, in which case he could be best served by a loan.

The question would be where? Do we look for a loan to somewhere like West Brom where he might not get any time or do we drop him down into the Championship where he will be playing at a level below him. We want him to be challenged but to also get first team football, so it's got to be just right.
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As a result of Pritchard's injury, he's managed to get himself ahead of Pritchard in the pecking order this season.

I would expect Poch to give all of the fringe players pre-season to stake a claim to a squad place. We might also see some of those fringe players used in the Champions League qualification games, if we have to play them and I would be tempted to play as many of them as possible in the League Cup and see where we go from there.

If we were to loan Onomah out next season, I think that we'd have Premier League options other than West Bromwich.
 
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