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Jose Mourinho

afsoc4life said:
Can't believe what I have read from some posters. We can't even win the Carabao since 2008 and we are dissing people winning a continental competition. First let's win it and then diss it. Not participate and be unable to make the knockouts, it is not a good look.
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Re your first line, are you really that surprised or are you just fishing? It mainly seems like a balanced response to Jose winning the conference league but there are always going to be bitter folk aiming to discredit achievements in a self protective manner.

People are always going to be set in their ways, the guy is either painted as a pantomime villain or as a serial winner. It's always going to devolve in to the tired old trophies vs top four argument, well trodden ground and I don't really think folks are going to change face on the 18th attempt at that debate.

Like @DeanoAustin 's post above, did winning the LC under Ramos / Graham do the club any good? I find it an odd question as our name is etched in to history as the winners of that competition in that year for the rest of time, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

It's only my opinion but we, as a club, let ourselves down in the conference league this season, like we have done many times in the Europa league, attempting to diminish the importance of a competition is easier than acknowledging the reality of our performances.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Another trophy for Jose and fair play.
It's another reminder though of how far his stock has fallen...can you name any other 'elite-level' coaches that competed in the conference league this season (aside from Conte) or will be competing in the conference league next year?
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Your question is mind bogglingly subjective once you mention elite level managers, sounds a bit like this world class label that is rendered meaningless by everyone having their own definition of what it exactly means.

You might call it an example of Jose's stock falling but others see it as a manager winning a major (yeah I know) trophy in three different decades, not many who can say that, there's a lot more people who feel better labelling that man a dinosaur as it suits their emotional needs.
 
Roma fans were EXTREMELY happy to win this, first trophy for a long time - 50,000 fans at the Olimpico to celebrate, huge party.

Of course, Spurs are "above" this competition...
 
spurspinter1 said:
Re your first line, are you really that surprised or are you just fishing? It mainly seems like a balanced response to Jose winning the conference league but there are always going to be bitter folk aiming to discredit achievements in a self protective manner.

People are always going to be set in their ways, the guy is either painted as a pantomime villain or as a serial winner. It's always going to devolve in to the tired old trophies vs top four argument, well trodden ground and I don't really think folks are going to change face on the 18th attempt at that debate.

Like @DeanoAustin 's post above, did winning the LC under Ramos / Graham do the club any good? I find it an odd question as our name is etched in to history as the winners of that competition in that year for the rest of time, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

It's only my opinion but we, as a club, let ourselves down in the conference league this season, like we have done many times in the Europa league, attempting to diminish the importance of a competition is easier than acknowledging the reality of our performances.
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Fair enough but my point is this. Did winning the League Cup either time really elevate us as a club? Would winning the League Cup last season or the ECL really be better for the club than CL qualification?

Which one gives us a better chance of holding on to our manager and our top players? Which one gives us more revenue to compete? Which one makes us more attractive to better players?

The question may be an odd one taken in a certain context. But when you think Graham had us marooned in mid table the next season and Ramos had us in the relegation zone (and the rot had set in long before either Berbatov or Keane left), it's not really that odd when you are asking what's better for the club in terms of trying to realise its current ambitions.
 
Lost Mango said:
Nah, guy can have all the credit in the world for his 24 major trophies in 4 countries. Amazing.

Was still the wrong fit for us and did a brick job.
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He either overestimated our team or the reaction he could get from them.
Either way he was never the right person for us, levys biggest managerial mistake imho.
 
afsoc4life said:
His stock has fallen? Where? With Spurs fans? Do you think anyone is going to walk to Spurs fans and ask them opinions on how to win trophies?

And I make the post above with anguish. We sacked the dude before a final. Goodness knows what the impact of winning that cup would have done.

He got the Roma job and led them to their first European trophy. Don't get the need to denigrate this.
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It's Roma's first trophy in GHod knows. Good on him and them.

I believe Jose's stock has fallen. He's gone from Chelsea and Man Utd levels to Europa Conference league/Europa League levels.
Just because we are brick doesn't change that.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Your question is mind bogglingly subjective once you mention elite level managers, sounds a bit like this world class label that is rendered meaningless by everyone having their own definition of what it exactly means.

You might call it an example of Jose's stock falling but others see it as a manager winning a major (yeah I know) trophy in three different decades, not many who can say that, there's a lot more people who feel better labelling that man a dinosaur as it suits their emotional needs.
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As i intimated to @afsoc4life i feel you can both call ourselves brick and call Jose a coaching dinosaur who's level/stock has fallen the same time, whilst also appreciating that he has made the Roma fans happy (good luck to him and them).
 
What i will say is that I still think it was ludicrous to sack Jose before our League Cup final. That will remain a blot on Levy/ENIC for a long time and until we next win a trophy..
 
glorygloryeze said:
What i will say is that I still think it was ludicrous to sack Jose before our League Cup final. That will remain a blot on Levy/ENIC for a long time and until we next win a trophy..
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My recollection of the time leading up to that final (and before the sacking) was a widespread feeling amongst Spurs fans that City were going to tear us a new one. I don't even recall the "....but anything can happen in a one-off game" - we were just going to get mullered.
I had no issue with the sacking or its timing, except that it didn't happen sooner.
The blot on Levy was hiring him in the first place.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
My recollection of the time leading up to that final (and before the sacking) was a widespread feeling amongst Spurs fans that City were going to tear us a new one. I don't even recall the "....but anything can happen in a one-off game" - we were just going to get mullered.
I had no issue with the sacking or its timing, except that it didn't happen sooner.
The blot on Levy was hiring him in the first place.
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I think some fans were holding on to "but Jose's record in finals" while acknowledging, logically, we were poison and everything pointed to a City win. Everyone else thought we'd be destroyed. The Athletic subsequently reported that all but 2 players wanted Jose gone. I know it's the media but The Athletic are excellent so I'd believe it.

Personally, I thought Jose was toast after the 1-3 v The Dippers in January. There was 3 months between then and the cup final to fire him. Levy should have acted sooner. Getting to the week of the cup final - personally I thought at that stage, he should have let him continue. However, it's a decision so bereft of common sense (the timing I mean) that I honestly believe there are factors at play we don't know anything about. Levy isn't an idiot.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Fair enough but my point is this. Did winning the League Cup either time really elevate us as a club? Would winning the League Cup last season or the ECL really be better for the club than CL qualification?

Which one gives us a better chance of holding on to our manager and our top players? Which one gives us more revenue to compete? Which one makes us more attractive to better players?

The question may be an odd one taken in a certain context. But when you think Graham had us marooned in mid table the next season and Ramos had us in the relegation zone (and the rot had set in long before either Berbatov or Keane left), it's not really that odd when you are asking what's better for the club in terms of trying to realise its current ambitions.
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I think the majority of your questions will come down to what view a fan has about Top 4 vs winning trophies. To me, winning a league cup elevates a club's status by the mere proof of being the best out of a group of competitors in a competition, I know that's blindingly obvious but another fan may call it the Mickey mouse cup and consider it irrelevant. Not to sound dismissive of the subject / discussion and I appreciate that I did choose to post on the thread but there doesn't seem to be new ground to cover on this topic
 
Bullet said:
Roma fans were EXTREMELY happy to win this, first trophy for a long time - 50,000 fans at the Olimpico to celebrate, huge party.

Of course, Spurs are "above" this competition...
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Maybe not the club but for sure they are a lot of fans who think we are " above" this competition. Despite not winning anything for quite a while.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
My recollection of the time leading up to that final (and before the sacking) was a widespread feeling amongst Spurs fans that City were going to tear us a new one. I don't even recall the "....but anything can happen in a one-off game" - we were just going to get mullered.
I had no issue with the sacking or its timing, except that it didn't happen sooner.
The blot on Levy was hiring him in the first place.
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Definitely should have happened earlier. He'd clearly lost the dressing room quite a while before that.

The Mason roll of the dice was definitely worth it - it at least give us a bit of pride and hope, even if we were still short on the day.
 
Bullet said:
Roma fans were EXTREMELY happy to win this, first trophy for a long time - 50,000 fans at the Olimpico to celebrate, huge party.

Of course, Spurs are "above" this competition...
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We are not about it but what can you do? We finished 4th and gained CL and they are 7th and won a cup, Im not going to celebrate their win or feel bad about our season because of it.

At the end of the day he was here it didnt work and we move on, people harking on about him winning a cup for me is odd, he had a chance here and was horrendous with the low block crap
 
glasgowspur said:
Great post steff.
atm i would take any trophy, everyone needs to start somewhere. First trophy is so important. If Liverpool threw the league cup and won the f a cup, PL and CL bang goes the quad. Emirates Marketing Project where 30 mins away from no trophies this season, league cup is not high on their priorities, but they would not be saying that if they won nothing else.
Take one at a time and see where they lead you.
It's so important to remember that most posts on are just opinions, its good we all have them, its even better that they're not all the same, but most importantly to remember that we are all entitled to have one, whether you agree with it or not.
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Agree on the opinions comments mate! Well said.
 
parklane1 said:
Maybe not the club but for sure they are a lot of fans who think we are " above" this competition. Despite not winning anything for quite a while.
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Correct mate.
I am one of them. I'd be delighted to win it /have the day out, but not any thing I dream about TBH.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Fair enough but my point is this. Did winning the League Cup either time really elevate us as a club? Would winning the League Cup last season or the ECL really be better for the club than CL qualification?

Which one gives us a better chance of holding on to our manager and our top players? Which one gives us more revenue to compete? Which one makes us more attractive to better players?

The question may be an odd one taken in a certain context. But when you think Graham had us marooned in mid table the next season and Ramos had us in the relegation zone (and the rot had set in long before either Berbatov or Keane left), it's not really that odd when you are asking what's better for the club in terms of trying to realise its current ambitions.
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Its a great point TBH, just look at the facts, Kane ultimately wanted to leave last year to to play in the CL ironically a season after Jose managed which proves where players want to be. I want to win the League Cup but if it was a straight choice between that or having a full season in Europe's elite competition it would be the CL im afraid.

Again people are on here shocked that fans are not singing the praises of Jose, why should they?
 
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