Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[billyiddo]

You are ignoring the base of players we already had at the club. Consequently, comparisons with rivals are pretty meaningless unless you also factor in this vital ingredient.

I addressed that directly, he took over a squad of players that had finished 5th and 6th in their previous 2 seasons. That's the base level of players that were already at the club, we then spent less money than all of the teams we were competing with, both in regards to net spend and overall spend (as well as wages) and improved.

Do you have any comment to make in light of the figures i posted in my previous post regarding our spend in the market of 400m over 6 seasons or 300m over 5 and how that supposedly constitutes backing by the club when our rivals were spending much much more? Otherwise i don't really see much point in taking the time to respond to posts of yours if you're just going to ignore what i post

 

[billyiddo]

He's not. As much as I'd love him to just be winding them up with completely made up flimflam every time they speak, he has to keep a level of public credibility.

This is the same man that told the trust that building a stadium wouldn't effect our ability to spend in the transfer market, which was clearly creative in it's meaning so i think it's safe to say that whatever gets said to the trust with regards to finances can be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We are going round in circles with this, you seem to want to blame Levy for not backing his manager ( its a common opinion with you) that is fair enough because Stop! Hammer time, however as i have said before i disagree with you and your agenda ( or so it seems) against Levy.

Thankfully most fans that i know feel the same way as i do about it so i really see no need to continue going around in circles like we are. If you feel like its important to put nett spend up as the best barometer then go for it, as i say most fans i know can see the bigger picture.

I think you misunderstand me if you think I am against Levy. I’m not, I think (just like anyone in business and in life) Levy has made mistakes, but he is only human, just like Poch, who also made mistakes. For both the good things they have done for Spurs outweighs the mistakes though. This doesn’t have to be a Poch vs Levy debate. My point, as I think it has always been, is that I don’t think we could have realistically expected Pochettino (or any manager) to do any better than he did, indeed I don’t think we could really have expected him to do as well as he did.

 

[parklane1]

I think you misunderstand me if you think I am against Levy. I’m not, I think (just like anyone in business and in life) Levy has made mistakes, but he is only human, just like Poch, who also made mistakes. For both the good things they have done for Spurs outweighs the mistakes though. This doesn’t have to be a Poch vs Levy debate. My point, as I think it has always been, is that I don’t think we could have realistically expected Pochettino (or any manager) to do any better than he did, indeed I don’t think we could really have expected him to do as well as he did.

To be honest i can agree with most of that, of course Levy has made mistakes he is human and we all do at some times in our life. As for Poch i also agree he did a great job here and deserves a lot of credit for where we are ( and to be honest i think most fans would agree).

My point is that Levy has not held us back ( imo) and IF any fan thinks that then again ( imo) they are wrong or just having a dig at him ( they are not as many who do that as they used to be) but they are still small amount who jump on him whenever they get the chance ( and they are a couple on here).

He backed the manager as much as he could bearing in mind the outlay our club has laid out over the last several years on the stadium, training facilities etc. To say he has not backed our managers is ( imo) wrong and all my opinions are nothing to do with a Poch/Levy debate but on those who ( for whatever reason) want to have a dig at Levy whenever they get the chance.

Are you one of them? maybe/maybe not only you know that.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He's not. As much as I'd love him to just be winding them up with completely made up flimflam every time they speak, he has to keep a level of public credibility.

I don’t think he would blatantly lie. The numbers look very different though. Maybe with agents fees, player signing on fees and pay offs to player fees, that doubles the outlay?

 

[scaramanga]

This is the same man that told the trust that building a stadium wouldn't effect our ability to spend in the transfer market, which was clearly creative in it's meaning so i think it's safe to say that whatever gets said to the trust with regards to finances can be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

It hasn't.

 

[scaramanga]

I don’t think he would blatantly lie. The numbers look very different though. Maybe with agents fees, player signing on fees and pay offs to player fees, that doubles the outlay?

Wouldn't be at all surprising. Especially the agent bit.

 

[billyiddo]

It hasn't.

Just a coincidence then that as soon as work started on the stadium build our net spend dropped to zero and as soon as we moved in it rose substantially?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think you are getting the difference between value and price muddled up. In an open market economy, the price is determined by a willing buyer and a willing seller. This is quite distinct from the intrinsic value of a player. You mentioned this yourself by saying we "overpaid by probably £8m or so for Sissoko". There could be any number of reasons to affect the price - desperation of a last minute window signing, the player's club urgently needing funds etc etc.

We need to buy players who represent good value (to us). Apart from in his first couple of years, that is what we have spectacularly failed to do under Poch. I still think the last window was the reason Levy finally realised Poch was not good at spotting potential and good value in a player which ultimately led to his sacking.

It’s always hindsight though that tells you you have overpaid. Janssen for example I think most thought was good value when we signed him, I think that it was only really Sissoko where a number of forum members thought we had overpaid at the time of signing him. Also if I think back to last summer on here, I think that just about everyone was happy with both the players and the prices with Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon. The summer before Grealish at the £20 million that Poch was happy to sign him for would’ve been a bargain too.

 

[billyiddo]

To be honest i can agree with most of that, of course Levy has made mistakes he is human and we all do at some times in our life. As for Poch i also agree he did a great job here and deserves a lot of credit for where we are ( and to be honest i think most fans would agree).

My point is that Levy has not held us back ( imo) and IF any fan thinks that then again ( imo) they are wrong or just having a dig at him ( they are not as many who do that as they used to be) but they are still small amount who jump on him whenever they get the chance ( and they are a couple on here).

He backed the manager as much as he could bearing in mind the outlay our club has laid out over the last several years on the stadium, training facilities etc. To say he has not backed our managers is ( imo) wrong and all my opinions are nothing to do with a Poch/Levy debate but on those who ( for whatever reason) want to have a dig at Levy whenever they get the chance.

Are you one of them? maybe/maybe not only you know that.

I don't think Levy held us back or didn't back Poch as much as he could have been expected to whilst the stadium build was ongoing - however it's plain to see that regardless of that we were competing at a severe financial disadvantage to the clubs around us and that had/has to be factored in to any judgement of how we performed during this time.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is the same man that told the trust that building a stadium wouldn't effect our ability to spend in the transfer market, which was clearly creative in it's meaning so i think it's safe to say that whatever gets said to the trust with regards to finances can be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

It hasn't.

i think it clearly did. I don’t think that was the initial plan though, I think the stadium just went VERY over budget.

 

[scaramanga]

Just a coincidence then that as soon as work started on the stadium build our net spend dropped to zero and as soon as we moved in it rose substantially?

It coincided with a rapidly fluctuating and increasing transfer market too - mainly due to the imminent new rights deals.

 

[billyiddo]

Deary me...

Nevermind the fact that the markets are always in a state of flux because TV rights, long before work started on the stadium, nor that you buy and sell in the same market meaning with regards to net spend the impact would be minimal as imports going up in price means exports are too but the most obvious is that for some reason we seem to have been the only club at the top of the table to have lucked out in these times of fluctuating markets - and it was just pure coincidence that the year we couldn't sell anyone we couldn't find a player to buy either or that we had to scrape around buying bums like Nkoudou and Njie while our rivals were picking up top level talents, fancy that

 

[Finney Is Back]

You are ignoring the base of players we already had at the club. Consequently, comparisons with rivals are pretty meaningless unless you also factor in this vital ingredient.

well one would assume there were 5 clubs with a better base as we had finished 6th the season before Poch took over.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

well one would assume there were 5 clubs with a better base as we had finished 6th the season before Poch took over.

That’s fair
I’d also love to know if we have brought through more players than anyone in the last 6 years to play at the top level because when I went though the list there’s quite a lot

 

[scaramanga]

Deary me...

Nevermind the fact that the markets are always in a state of flux because TV rights, long before work started on the stadium, nor that you buy and sell in the same market meaning with regards to net spend the impact would be minimal as imports going up in price means exports are too but the most obvious is that for some reason we seem to have been the only club at the top of the table to have lucked out in these times of fluctuating markets - and it was just pure coincidence that the year we couldn't sell anyone we couldn't find a player to buy either or that we had to scrape around buying bums like Nkoudou and Njie while our rivals were picking up top level talents, fancy that

I think we just stayed out of the big money purchases for a couple of seasons - makes sense when you see we got our fingers burned on Sissoko for £30m

 

[parklane1]

I don't think Levy held us back or didn't back Poch as much as he could have been expected to whilst the stadium build was ongoing - however it's plain to see that regardless of that we were competing at a severe financial disadvantage to the clubs around us and that had/has to be factored in to any judgement of how we performed during this time.

That is a fair comment.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think Levy held us back or didn't back Poch as much as he could have been expected to whilst the stadium build was ongoing - however it's plain to see that regardless of that we were competing at a severe financial disadvantage to the clubs around us and that had/has to be factored in to any judgement of how we performed during this time.

That’s the problem now... expectation has changed
I remember when just getting into Europe was a massive thing
I remember when getting top half was progress as things were that bad
I also never ever expected a CL final in my lifetime although I do think it’s easier to win than the league now ...
but we’re now a top 10/15 global club which I’m sure some pepper will disagree with but we’re there now in merit if not recent history and that’s because of what’s been on and off the pitch in the last 5 years. CL qualification, CL final, the worlds greatest stadium and some world class players

 

[Pirate55]

I addressed that directly, he took over a squad of players that had finished 5th and 6th in their previous 2 seasons. That's the base level of players that were already at the club, we then spent less money than all of the teams we were competing with, both in regards to net spend and overall spend (as well as wages) and improved.

Do you have any comment to make in light of the figures i posted in my previous post regarding our spend in the market of 400m over 6 seasons or 300m over 5 and how that supposedly constitutes backing by the club when our rivals were spending much much more? Otherwise i don't really see much point in taking the time to respond to posts of yours if you're just going to ignore what i post

Our underlying base of players were young and had a very high ceiling. Lloris, Walker, Rose,Verts, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela, Siggurdson and Kane. Add to that Dele, Dier, Toby and Wanyama from Poch's first couple of windows and we had the making of an exceptional team. Poch initially delivered by knitting that together.

I consider 400m to be a considerable amount of backing. However, even more crucially, Levy backed Poch by not only keeping all the players Poch wanted to keep - and gave them all extended contracts and hefty pay rises. A lot of our main rivals lost huge high profile players during this period. Previously, Levy had sold Bale, Berbs and Keane to undermine other managers. To say Levy didn't back Poch would be quite wrong.

 

[billyiddo]

Our underlying base of players were young and had a very high ceiling. Lloris, Walker, Rose,Verts, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela, Siggurdson and Kane. Add to that Dele, Dier, Toby and Wanyama from Poch's first couple of windows and we had the making of an exceptional team. Poch initially delivered by knitting that together.

I consider 400m to be a considerable amount of backing. However, even more crucially, Levy backed Poch by not only keeping all the players Poch wanted to keep - and gave them all extended contracts and hefty pay rises. A lot of our main rivals lost huge high profile players during this period. Previously, Levy had sold Bale, Berbs and Keane to undermine other managers. To say Levy didn't back Poch would be quite wrong.

I've demonstrably shown to you that the 400m we spent over 6 seasons pales in comparison to what our rivals spent in the same period and that's with the added benefit of them all starting with a higher calibre of player and spending a varying amount more than us on wages. There's little point going further if you cannot grasp the importance of what those around us were investing in their teams at the same time.