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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Again mate, net spend is irrelevant, we get Kane for free, United spent what on Lukaku? who got the better deal? (look at Dele, Eriksen, Son, all similar, way better value than cost). So let's stop with the 17th brick ..

Yes, we spend 6th to 8th on wages, Poch himself was clear, the 5 year plan with Levy was not to be in CL the first 3 years (we got there early), the stadium build itself was not budgeted on CL expectation. So your answer is we expected to finish 5th/6th with a goal of finishing in top 4, which to @scaramanga's point is based on us believing we can run the club smarter than most of our competitors.

Here is the truth, Spurs did not have the financial ability to compete with United, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea and City for a long time, Levy's plan was to make the club close the fiscal gap so we would be able to close the spending gap (exactly what you are complaining about), so we can legitimately compete. We have done that "now", in the last year or two, so you can't take a 5 or 10 year backward look because the income wasn't there to support the spend (without what obviously Levy thought was unnecessary risk).

The measurement of the club is the next 2-5 years, are we willing to raise our wages to 50-55% of turnover, are we willing to spend a little more on acquisition, are we willing to redirect the money raised from "non-football" events to squad quality?

I've said it before, if you fail to grasp that Levy/ENIC are playing the long game here, that they will never take impulsive decisions or risks this year that would be a non risk next year, then you will simply get frustrated. Spurs will grind and earn it's way to the top, however long that takes, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing even if like all of us, I'd love to see us win something now.

Good post, and if I'm reading it correctly that ultimately Levy and poch were working on different timescales for success and investment then I think you are right.
Levy is undoubtedly playing a long game, he always has, it's got us to where we are and he rightly is going to jeopardise it now by rushing.
Poch I suspect thought with a bit of risk we could push on and win something. Can't blame him for that, another season or two at spurs without a trophy and his stock will dip.
I loved poch, I love Levy and it saddens me it ended the way it, but I can understand it.
Thing is though, I love spurs more.
 
I'd prefer you not to move the goal posts tbqh - you said 200m net, is that or is that not correct as i have shown that not to be the case with the information i could find?

Levy said himself it was £200k net. Whether or not you dispute that figure, the point being made is the same, namely

Poch had a high base of players with which to work (Lloris, Rose, Walker, Verts, Dembele, Eriksen, Kane, Siggurdson, Lennon, Lamela)
Poch already had a squad of players that had just finished (iirc) 5th - even under the wondrous guidance of DimTim
Poch spent more than £400m on players during his tenure (he was one of 4 on the transfer committee, and surely one of the key decision makers)

I hope Mourinho gets the same sort of backing!!!
 
Surely net spend is the best barometer though?

let me put it this way....

Do you agree that in a free market economy prices of things are typically driven by supply and demand, thus with thousands of professional football clubs players will typically be bought/sold for what they are worth? If so then us selling a player for £25 million and buying a player for £30 million is likely to mean that we have improved the squad a bit. However if we instead keep our £25 million player and instead sell a £1 million player and buy that same player for £30 million then we should’ve improved the squad by quite lot. Do you agree this is logical?

We are going round in circles with this, you seem to want to blame Levy for not backing his manager ( its a common opinion with you) that is fair enough because Stop! Hammer time, however as i have said before i disagree with you and your agenda ( or so it seems) against Levy.

Thankfully most fans that i know feel the same way as i do about it so i really see no need to continue going around in circles like we are. If you feel like its important to put nett spend up as the best barometer then go for it, as i say most fans i know can see the bigger picture.
 
The value of anything is merely determined by what an owner will sell for and what a buyer will pay.

players who are proven to be good and performing are very expensive. Players that have shown promise but are not yet proven are reasonably expensive. Players that were once good but have dipped in performance are less expensive than proven players still performing. Once promising players that didn’t fulfill that promise after moving up a level are reasonably cheap. Players that are neither proven, nor promising are cheap.

Most of our signings fall into the promising (pretty much all of them) or once good but dipped category (Moura, Llorente, Aurier). Sissoko was probably the only exception to that and I do agree that we overpaid there by probably £8 million or so, that was a last day of window panic, with the club having missed out on Wjinaldum, who was Poch’s first target and a much better fit.

I think you are getting the difference between value and price muddled up. In an open market economy, the price is determined by a willing buyer and a willing seller. This is quite distinct from the intrinsic value of a player. You mentioned this yourself by saying we "overpaid by probably £8m or so for Sissoko". There could be any number of reasons to affect the price - desperation of a last minute window signing, the player's club urgently needing funds etc etc.

We need to buy players who represent good value (to us). Apart from in his first couple of years, that is what we have spectacularly failed to do under Poch. I still think the last window was the reason Levy finally realised Poch was not good at spotting potential and good value in a player which ultimately led to his sacking.
 
The value of anything is merely determined by what an owner will sell for and what a buyer will pay.

players who are proven to be good and performing are very expensive. Players that have shown promise but are not yet proven are reasonably expensive. Players that were once good but have dipped in performance are less expensive than proven players still performing. Once promising players that didn’t fulfill that promise after moving up a level are reasonably cheap. Players that are neither proven, nor promising are cheap.

Most of our signings fall into the promising (pretty much all of them) or once good but dipped category (Moura, Llorente, Aurier). Sissoko was probably the only exception to that and I do agree that we overpaid there by probably £8 million or so, that was a last day of window panic, with the club having missed out on Wjinaldum, who was Poch’s first target and a much better fit.
I agree with the rough splits you have of players there and the price differences between the groups.

Within those groups there's huge space for variance though. That amount of variance, combined with the number of transfers a season means a club could easily add £100M to their net spend over a few years - that's just between normal club chairmen, before taking into account just how good Levy is.

Oh and you have a typo. You missed out the 2 before the 8 in your assessment of Sissoko's value.
 
Levy said himself it was £200k net. Whether or not you dispute that figure, the point being made is the same, namely

Poch had a high base of players with which to work (Lloris, Rose, Walker, Verts, Dembele, Eriksen, Kane, Siggurdson, Lennon, Lamela)
Poch already had a squad of players that had just finished (iirc) 5th - even under the wondrous guidance of DimTim
Poch spent more than £400m on players during his tenure (he was one of 4 on the transfer committee, and surely one of the key decision makers)

I hope Mourinho gets the same sort of backing!!!
My original post was asking you where Levy had said that, because nothing else seems to be supporting that figure, can you provide a link to the quotes?

Pochs "base of players" were a team that finished 6th and 5th in it's previous 2 seasons.

400m is not a lot of money to spend over 6 seasons, our rivals for the CL places have probably each had a run of 2 seasons in the same time frame where they spent a similar amount*. I'd also suggest using last summers spend is more than a little unfair as the manager never got the chance to intergrate the players signed so would say that 300m in 5 seasons is a more accurate reflection of the backing that Poch had.

* i done the leg work in the end
..
Chelsea 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 420m
United 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 344m
Liverpool 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 319m
City 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 379m
Arsenal 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 240m

Just to illustrate what 400m/6 seasons or 300m/5 looks like in comparison to the clubs we are competing with.

We were one of the lowest spenders in the league in terms of net spend during his time and were certainly the lowest of the top 6 in terms of wages and outright transfer spend - if you think Mourinho would accept such backing or would indeed be able to succeed off the back of it then I'd suggest you are thoroughly misguided - certainly a level of backing he is not used to. Thankfully though i believe the club is in a position to be able to finally back it's managers to a level that matches the clubs we expected to compete with.
 
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Mate, last try because I don't think you are genuinely trying to discuss this .. lets' take your scenario

- Any net spend of neutral or less than 20-50M pounds will be in bottom of PL net spend table (say 17th)
- Lets assume we sell Rose, Foyth, Skipp, Sissoko, Lamela, Kane and Dele and for brick's and gigles sake, lets say we get 300 -350M (Kane +Dele probably = 200-250 together)

So we give Jose -> Lloris, Davies, Sanchez, Tanganga, Dier, Aurier, Winks, N'dombele, Lo Celso, Son, Lucas, Bergwijn, Parrott +300M in new players (plus raise our wages) and we have 20-50M left over to fudge up the net spend (keep it positive) ..

Do I think Jose would do better? actually I'm pretty fudging sure he would .. I'd be willing to bet in 2 years he would deliver a trophy, some fudging trophy ..
Coin flip.
 
Aren't we gonna get Finney's version?

Or having now revealed his source ...is that impossible?

You need to ask him mate, i may be wrong but it looks like he was told that Levy was dragging arse over it. No idea, as i say you will have to ask him. I know what i was told and i have no reason to doubt it.
 
My original post was asking you where Levy had said that, because nothing else seems to be supporting that figure, can you provide a link to the quotes?

Pochs "base of players" were a team that finished 6th and 5th in it's previous 2 seasons.

400m is not a lot of money to spend over 6 seasons, our rivals for the CL places have probably each had a run of 2 seasons in the same time frame where they spent a similar amount*. I'd also suggest using last summers spend is more than a little unfair as the manager never got the chance to intergrate the players signed so would say that 300m in 5 seasons is a more accurate reflection of the backing that Poch had.

* i done the leg work in the end
..
Chelsea 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 420m
United 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 344m
Liverpool 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 319m
City 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 379m
Arsenal 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 240m

Just to illustrate what 400m/6 seasons or 300m/5 looks like in comparison to the clubs we are competing with.

We were one of the lowest spenders in the league in terms of net spend during his time and were certainly the lowest of the top 6 in terms of wages and outright transfer spend - if you think Mourinho would accept such backing or would indeed be able to succeed off the back of it then I'd suggest you are thoroughly misguided - certainly a level of backing he is not used to. Thankfully though i believe the club is in a position to be able to finally back it's managers to a level that matches the clubs we expected to compete with.
1D87128B-8037-41BD-8799-0FBEB7B159E4.png

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thst-meeting-with-the-spurs-board-report

Here’s the link
 
Thanks again, didn't realise there was such a table on that site. Is there one for spend only as that would have saved me some time earlier in my previous post...

Still though, doesn't seem to tally up with his 200m figure
Well one is guess work and the other is form the man who signs the cheques
It is the problem with all online sites... their 90% flimflam, 9% speculation, 1% fact
But that’s the info Levy gave the Trust
 
Well one is guess work and the other is form the man who signs the cheques
It is the problem with all online sites... their 90% flimflam, 9% speculation, 1% fact
But that’s the info Levy gave the Trust

Is he under any obligation to give the trust accurate information on financial issues?
 
My original post was asking you where Levy had said that, because nothing else seems to be supporting that figure, can you provide a link to the quotes?

Pochs "base of players" were a team that finished 6th and 5th in it's previous 2 seasons.

400m is not a lot of money to spend over 6 seasons, our rivals for the CL places have probably each had a run of 2 seasons in the same time frame where they spent a similar amount*. I'd also suggest using last summers spend is more than a little unfair as the manager never got the chance to intergrate the players signed so would say that 300m in 5 seasons is a more accurate reflection of the backing that Poch had.

* i done the leg work in the end
..
Chelsea 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 420m
United 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 344m
Liverpool 17/18 + 18/19 spend was 319m
City 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 379m
Arsenal 16/17 + 17/18 spend was 240m

Just to illustrate what 400m/6 seasons or 300m/5 looks like in comparison to the clubs we are competing with.

We were one of the lowest spenders in the league in terms of net spend during his time and were certainly the lowest of the top 6 in terms of wages and outright transfer spend - if you think Mourinho would accept such backing or would indeed be able to succeed off the back of it then I'd suggest you are thoroughly misguided - certainly a level of backing he is not used to. Thankfully though i believe the club is in a position to be able to finally back it's managers to a level that matches the clubs we expected to compete with.

You are ignoring the base of players we already had at the club. Consequently, comparisons with rivals are pretty meaningless unless you also factor in this vital ingredient.
 
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