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ITK Thread

I think full backs are much more crucial nowadays with the new formations being favored which means the lack of true wingers etc.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Very true. Or too young or old to be a CB. I played FB at both ends of my career when I wasn't good enough for my primary position.

Jonathan Wilson reckons it’s the most important position on the pitch though: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2009/mar/25/the-question-full-backs-football
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I think Wilson is being a bit extreme on purpose with his statement, but I agree more with him than with you and Ted.

A full back can be what you describe, someone who keeps it simple, doesn't **** it up, primarily stays in his position etc.

That's not the role modern full backs like Lahm, Alves, Alba, Marcelo, Baines etc play though. And they've been very important players for their teams.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Surely the primary job of a defender is to defend any thing else is a bonus, the game may change but the basic stay the same.
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The double (in 4-2-3-1) or triple (in 4-3-3) pivot of DMs/CMs changes the shape of things though. With those playing deeper, the FBs are require to provide pretty much all the attacking width.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Surely the primary job of a defender is to defend any thing else is a bonus, the game may change but the basic stay the same.
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Disagree.

The job of the team is to pick up as many points as possible. If a defender contributes with goals and assists that's just as valuable as a winger contributing with goals and assists. And that's why some of the top clubs are willing to pay a lot of money for top class full/wing backs.

Leighton Baines contributed with 5 goals and 4 assists this season, that's not just a bonus, that's what makes him a very good player.

Similarly if an attacker contributes defensively that's not just a bonus, and you don't have to look further than this season's Atletico Madrid team for an example.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Surely the primary job of a defender is to defend any thing else is a bonus, the game may change but the basic stay the same.
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That's it.... The role us a simple one. If you want it to be.

But to turn it into something more than it is requires players who know how to attack and has a great engine to last the whole game. Technical reading of the game is crucial. So is a wide range of skills... From close control to the searching cross.

The best teams squeeze everything out from every position.

For us it was simply too many attacking options including from both wing backs, but very poor cover, or players like centre backs who didn't fit the part. Poch has his work cut out for him this summer.

Sent from my SM-P605 using Fapatalk
 
braineclipse said:
Disagree.

The job of the team is to pick up as many points as possible. If a defender contributes with goals and assists that's just as valuable as a winger contributing with goals and assists. And that's why some of the top clubs are willing to pay a lot of money for top class full/wing backs.

Leighton Baines contributed with 5 goals and 4 assists this season, that's not just a bonus, that's what makes him a very good player.

Similarly if an attacker contributes defensively that's not just a bonus, and you don't have to look further than this season's Atletico Madrid team for an example.
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3 of which were penalties and he probably scored a free-kick or two? Anyhow, we need to find someone who's above average going both ways...guess that's not so easy.
 
Superted said:
Full backs are just footballers too short to be centre halves and too **** to be midfielders. I know, I played RB all my life. We shouldn't waste too much money and effort trying to find a superstar. Just someone solid who doesn't **** it up half the time.
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What absolute nonsense. Full-back is one of the hardest positions to play on the pitch. Positioning as a full-back is extremely difficult as there's the constant dilemma about whether to go forward and support your team's attacks and leave yourselves open to being hit on the counter if somebody gives the ball away, versus staying back and allowing the opposition to easily mark your wingers and predict your attacks. It's a skill that a lot of full-backs never really get the hang of (see Glen Johnson). It's all well and good sticking someone to play as a wide defender if you're in a park the bus type game, but if you know you'll have spells in which you'll need to both attack and defend and transition between the two quickly, you need somebody who's good at both. Typically, centre-backs are not good attackers and wingers are not good defenders, therefore full-backs are some of the most well-rounded and intelligent players in the game.

Look at the number of goals Everton scored last season through their good full-backs. Look how few they conceded. Now compare it with us, and Danny Rose crossing the ball like Aaron Lennon on cocaine and not being able to mark his own shadow.

Good full-backs are absolutely crucial in the modern game. Absolutely crucial. It really annoys me when you see an experienced manager like Hodgson experimenting with James Milner at RB when he's never played there and has no understanding of what to do in that role, or worse, when people pick horrifically one-footed players on the wrong side.

Vertonghen did a decent job at LB earlier in the season as a technically capable CB, but his lack of pace was an issue. Naughton at LB was an unmitigated disaster. Improvements at FB are top priority this summer.
 
SUIYHA said:
What absolute nonsense. Full-back is one of the hardest positions to play on the pitch. Positioning as a full-back is extremely difficult as there's the constant dilemma about whether to go forward and support your team's attacks and leave yourselves open to being hit on the counter if somebody gives the ball away, versus staying back and allowing the opposition to easily mark your wingers and predict your attacks. It's a skill that a lot of full-backs never really get the hang of (see Glen Johnson). It's all well and good sticking someone to play as a wide defender if you're in a park the bus type game, but if you know you'll have spells in which you'll need to both attack and defend and transition between the two quickly, you need somebody who's good at both. Typically, centre-backs are not good attackers and wingers are not good defenders, therefore full-backs are some of the most well-rounded and intelligent players in the game.

Look at the number of goals Everton scored last season through their good full-backs. Look how few they conceded. Now compare it with us, and Danny Rose crossing the ball like Aaron Lennon on cocaine and not being able to mark his own shadow.

Good full-backs are absolutely crucial in the modern game. Absolutely crucial. It really annoys me when you see an experienced manager like Hodgson experimenting with James Milner at RB when he's never played there and has no understanding of what to do in that role, or worse, when people pick horrifically one-footed players on the wrong side.

Vertonghen did a decent job at LB earlier in the season as a technically capable CB, but his lack of pace was an issue. Naughton at LB was an unmitigated disaster. Improvements at FB are top priority this summer.
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I'd say positioning of FBs is pretty easy, certainly compared to CB where you have to pick the whole defence's line. All you do as a FB is stay in front of your CBs and goalside of the player you are marking. CBs marshal who goes forward, who needs to drop in to cover, and what numbers you keep back.

The only time FBs have to engage their brain is i) when the opposition winger is sitting deep and coming late, or ii) when the opponents are playing 3 forwards and they sometimes end up with a man and an overlap.

The greatest full-back of all time was one-footed on the wrong side (I'm also a member of the right-footed left-backs club, along with Paulo Maldini, Azpilicueta, Flanagan, Dennis Irwin, YLP etc.). Preferred kicking foot really doesn't matter compared to technique and physique.
 
Superted said:
Full backs are just footballers too short to be centre halves and too **** to be midfielders. I know, I played RB all my life. We shouldn't waste too much money and effort trying to find a superstar. Just someone solid who doesn't **** it up half the time.
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Absolute nonsense.... Unless you're talking about playing as a defensive RB/LB in a standard 4-4-2 where you are seeking no attacking advantage by utilising the overlap.

I played central midfield for my school team, full back for my district, centre midfield for Essex county, full back for my Sunday team and full back at youth level for Chelsea. I would also occasionally fill in at centre half or even as a number 10 type striker for any/all of the above.

Playing full back was far harder than any of the other positions. I was expected to provide pretty much all of our width when attacking, but also expected to get back in position to defend when the opposition won the ball off of us.

I never really had the height to play at the top level as a centre half, but I used to do a far better job when filling in there compared to the times when one of our central defenders had to fill in at full back. The centre halves didn't have the agility, fitness, pace, control, ability to beat a player, or the passing and crossing ability (especially to be able to effectively do these while running at pace) to play as full backs. Whereas when I played centre half I could usually make up for my lack of physical size with my positioning and football brain (and failing that often recover with my pace).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Absolute nonsense.... Unless you're talking about playing as a defensive RB/LB in a standard 4-4-2 where you are seeking no attacking advantage by utilising the overlap.

I played central midfield for my school team, full back for my district, centre midfield for Essex county, full back for my Sunday team and full back at youth level for Chelsea. I would also occasionally fill in at centre half or even as a number 10 type striker for any/all of the above.

Playing full back was far harder than any of the other positions. I was expected to provide pretty much all of our width when attacking, but also expected to get back in position to defend when the opposition won the ball off of us.

I never really had the height to play at the top level as a centre half, but I used to do a far better job when filling in there compared to the times when one of our central defenders had to fill in at full back. The centre halves didn't have the agility, fitness, pace, control, ability to beat a player, or the passing and crossing ability (especially to be able to effectively do these while running at pace) to play as full backs. Whereas when I played centre half I could usually make up for my lack of physical size with my positioning and football brain (and failing that often recover with my pace).
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Get your boots on son, you're needed
 
This poor thread is desperate for some ITK, I blame the World Cup, every full back in the game and Poch for taking a holiday.

I'm off to climb a tree.
 
Huddy said:
This poor thread is desperate for some ITK, I blame the World Cup, every full back in the game and Poch for taking a holiday.

I'm off to climb a tree.
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Yeah, there might be some ITK about Banega or some young kid Baldini is after, but for our targets that are at the World Cup I wouldn't expect anything until after they're eliminated (or crowned Champions I suppose).
 
Huddy said:
This poor thread is desperate for some ITK, I blame the World Cup, every full back in the game and Poch for taking a holiday.

I'm off to climb a tree.
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Who: Yiddo
Where: GG
When: 6th June

Our first signing will happen by the end of the month and will be from Southampton.

This is a guess
 
Huddy said:
This poor thread is desperate for some ITK, I blame the World Cup, every full back in the game and Poch for taking a holiday.

I'm off to climb a tree.
Click to expand...

The last time there was a world cup, our first signing didn't happen till 22 August. And that was for a free agent.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The last time there was a world cup, our first signing didn't happen till 22 August. And that was for a free agent.
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Disastrous window......we had potential CL football on offer and yet we didn't get anywhere near signing the top striker we needed at the time.

I doubt we will wait so long this summer to make our first signing. Hopefully Poch demands he gets his players in quickly
 
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