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Ingerlund

Grays_1890 said:
Having worked with the PL during Covid I have an old colleague who was the PL liaison and unfortunately its true by all accounts, he was prickly, complex and fell out with people over trivial and peripheral things apparently. By all accounts (only on what I was told so take as you wish) he is a complete oddball.

I don't think its a good fit for the reasons @Mikey10 pointed out but lets see
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I respect what you have written but falling out with the authorities in football over whatever issues doesn't make him a bad coach in my opinion, in my experience people in big organisations feel anyone who doesn't tow the party line are odd and not to be trusted.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I respect what you have written but falling out with the authorities in football over whatever issues doesn't make him a bad coach in my opinion, in my experience people in big organisations feel anyone who doesn't tow the party line are odd and not to be trusted.
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But if it impacts the job, which it invariably does with him then I think its worth a highlight TBH. He is prickly and this job is a graveyard for those types, we hate the media, well I do and their handling of stuff but its a major part of the job and I feel its over before it starts with him and his ever rising back when it get tricky.

Lets see anyway, I don't think he is as impressive as many, take PSG out of the CV and his outstanding achievement is a shock CL trophy (I give him props for it) but his last season at Bayern was a disaster and he stumbled to the league because Dortmund shat the bed.

I want nothing more than to have egg on my face with it, honestly, but I just feel this is a bad fit
 
An English manager has not won the premier league / Division 1 since 91/92. The last English manager to win an FA Cup was Harry Redknapp in 2008. English managers are clearly not great and its about time England appoint a serial winner. He is also a manager that will make changes depending on opponent and in game tactical changes.

He is by far the best available coach we could get.
 
Yiddo said:
He won’t get the tinkle easy run in all major competitions thats Southgate got.
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This one's been done to death but for all the stick Southgate gets for "easy runs", between 1986-2016, in knockout games, England have beaten:

Paraguay
Cameroon (aet)
Belgium (aet)
Denmark
Spain (on pens)
Ecuador

So you beat Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador in normal time in 30 years.

You got knocked out by:
Argentina
Group stages in 1988 losing 3 games
Germany (pens)
Group stages in 1992 not winning a game
Didn't qualify in 1994
Germany (pens)
Argentina (pens)
Group stages in 2000
Brazil
Portugal (pens)
Portugal (pens)
Didn't qualify in 2008
Germany
Italy (pens)
Group stages in 2014 without winning a game
Iceland

In the knockouts, Southgate beat Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Southgate won 9 knockout games in 4 tournaments. In the previous 30 years, you won 6 knockout games in 16 tournaments (2 of which you didn't qualify for). That's with revered managers like Robson, Venables and Capello.

Fact is, and I don't take joy in saying it, England aren't very good at tournament football and never have been.
 
harr1984 said:
People on here were whinging at the prospect of Tuchel at Spurs, don't see why he's a better fit for England.

Think people are soon going to realise Southgate wasnt as bad as people liked to make him out to be and we won't be getting any further under a 'sexier' name. Funny how almost every England manager ends up getting ridiculed in the public and press, regardless of reputation - wonder when the penny is going to drop that our players aren't actually as good as many like to think they are...
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👏👏 The winner.
 
DeanoAustin said:
This one's been done to death but for all the stick Southgate gets for "easy runs", between 1986-2016, in knockout games, England have beaten:

Paraguay
Cameroon (aet)
Belgium (aet)
Denmark
Spain (on pens)
Ecuador

So you beat Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador in normal time in 30 years.

You got knocked out by:
Argentina
Group stages in 1988 losing 3 games
Germany (pens)
Group stages in 1992 not winning a game
Didn't qualify in 1994
Germany (pens)
Argentina (pens)
Group stages in 2000
Brazil
Portugal (pens)
Portugal (pens)
Didn't qualify in 2008
Germany
Italy (pens)
Group stages in 2014 without winning a game
Iceland

In the knockouts, Southgate beat Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Southgate won 9 knockout games in 4 tournaments. In the previous 30 years, you won 6 knockout games in 16 tournaments (2 of which you didn't qualify for). That's with revered managers like Robson, Venables and Capello.

Fact is, and I don't take joy in saying it, England aren't very good at tournament football and never have been.
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The whole list, Southgate’s included just shows that when an England side plays a decent side they don’t win
Mentality, style of play, culture, manager
All huge parts of the issue
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The whole list, Southgate’s included just shows that when an England side plays a decent side they don’t win
Mentality, style of play, culture, manager
All huge parts of the issue
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Southgate beat Germany and Netherlands. No other England manager of the last 40 years has beaten a team of that level in the knockouts aside from maybe Venables in 1996 on home soil v Spain. And, let's be fair, England robbed them that day.

I'm not a Southgate fan, I wouldn't want him here but his England record is objectively pretty good whatever way you look at it.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Southgate beat Germany and Netherlands. No other England manager of the last 40 years has beaten a team of that level in the knockouts aside from maybe Venables in 1996 on home soil v Spain. And, let's be fair, England robbed them that day.

I'm not a Southgate fan, I wouldn't want him here but his England record is objectively pretty good whatever way you look at it.
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honestly lt was very very poor Netherlands and Germany sides
It’s a very functional record rather than an impressive one imo
It’s like always finishing in the CL places but never competing to win the league
 
DeanoAustin said:
This one's been done to death but for all the stick Southgate gets for "easy runs", between 1986-2016, in knockout games, England have beaten:

Paraguay
Cameroon (aet)
Belgium (aet)
Denmark
Spain (on pens)
Ecuador

So you beat Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador in normal time in 30 years.

You got knocked out by:
Argentina
Group stages in 1988 losing 3 games
Germany (pens)
Group stages in 1992 not winning a game
Didn't qualify in 1994
Germany (pens)
Argentina (pens)
Group stages in 2000
Brazil
Portugal (pens)
Portugal (pens)
Didn't qualify in 2008
Germany
Italy (pens)
Group stages in 2014 without winning a game
Iceland

In the knockouts, Southgate beat Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Southgate won 9 knockout games in 4 tournaments. In the previous 30 years, you won 6 knockout games in 16 tournaments (2 of which you didn't qualify for). That's with revered managers like Robson, Venables and Capello.

Fact is, and I don't take joy in saying it, England aren't very good at tournament football and never have been.
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He undoubtedly hit a perfect storm as manager though, the emergence of some fairly decent players and the decline of some pretty powerful nations. Not many of the traditional previous greats have been exceptional over the last 10 years IMO, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands and Brazil in some have been rank bad if not have not even qualified, some have come good recently, some have declined harder.

But you compare them to the teams who have knocked us out over that history, Argentina in 98 were phenomenally talented, 2002 was probably one of the generational teams in history with Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. 2006 Portugal was Ronaldo, Figo and Pauletta and the final 8 was something like Argentina, Germany, Brazil, France, Italy, Us and Portugal. 2010 was us in sheer abyss but again a supremely talented Germany who would go to win the next WC, the Germany we hoiked under Southgate was in terminal decline from that. Italy who beat us in the Final were creaking with old age and never made the next tournament, that was IMO a prime opportunity, Spain less so as I just think they were far better.

Nice guy, absolutely, right guy for the time? Absolutely and in fairness to the above you can only do what you can do and beat what you can beat. But I will always believe circumstance and a parting in the quality helped his cause and I don't think thats a harsh summary TBH
 
Mikey10 said:
He falls out with people wherever he goes, engineers conflict and confrontation as he feels it is essential to success, and is famous for having a short fuse. Think he may therefore struggle to deal with the media, players' clubs, and the additional pressure heaped on him as a non-English man in charge of the national team...but I could well be very wrong, of course.

His playing style is complex and requires a lot of flexibility from his squads - he'll get a couple of weeks with these players three times per year. Long enough to implement what he needs to?
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That's exactly why I think he, and someone like Mourinho, would be better suited for a national team job, as he's not with the team and players on a day to day basis, and there isn't constant exposure like in a club team.

I don't think his style is very complicated. He made his mark in very short time at both Dortmund and Chelsea, which to me is proof that it's fairly easy to implement. He also changed tactics from game to game, and it worked, which again suggest the tweaks were fairly easy to understand and implement.
 
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Southgate was just so bad. He was a guy who never had a proper football management apprenticeship. He had to get special dispensation from the PL to coach Boro because he didn't have his badges. He then spent a fortune and then got Steve Gibson's team relegated. His reward was to get saved by The FA and given his next 2 jobs.

I tried to like him but just couldn't because of his tactical ineptitude. It started on the wrong foot by not selecting Hendo as England captain and instead picking his "best player" who has no on-pitch leadership and no charisma. Southgate then got owned by so many managers in the big games. He also made a mockery of what it means to "win" an England cap. He was handing them out like xmas cards.

So one thing is for sure. There were hundreds of managers who are better than Southgate. Tuchel is definitely one of them, but I guess we get to find out whether he can knit a bunch of superb players together into a unit. I'm surprised by the choice but will have a completely open mind about Tuchel until we learn more.
 
I don't know what his tactics are but I hope he dumps the option of playing wide players who rarely go on the outside, their going on to their favoured foot continually slows the game down and usually leads to the ball going backwards until it reaches our centrebacks and we then repeat the move again. To the experts I'm sure this is some sophisticated maneuver or part of game management but its frustrating to watch are doesn't appear very successful with the players we have.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I don't know what his tactics are but I hope he dumps the option of playing wide players who rarely go on the outside, their going on to their favoured foot continually slows the game down and usually leads to the ball going backwards until it reaches our centrebacks and we then repeat the move again. To the experts I'm sure this is some sophisticated maneuver or part of game management but its frustrating to watch are doesn't appear very successful with the players we have.
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I think it's pretty likely he play 3 at the back. There's also going to be some disappointed attacking players because he doesnt seem like the kind of coach to try and shoehorn in all of Palmer, Saka, Foden, Bellingham etc if they are not in his favoured line up. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does.
 
DeanoAustin said:
This one's been done to death but for all the stick Southgate gets for "easy runs", between 1986-2016, in knockout games, England have beaten:

Paraguay
Cameroon (aet)
Belgium (aet)
Denmark
Spain (on pens)
Ecuador

So you beat Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador in normal time in 30 years.

You got knocked out by:
Argentina
Group stages in 1988 losing 3 games
Germany (pens)
Group stages in 1992 not winning a game
Didn't qualify in 1994
Germany (pens)
Argentina (pens)
Group stages in 2000
Brazil
Portugal (pens)
Portugal (pens)
Didn't qualify in 2008
Germany
Italy (pens)
Group stages in 2014 without winning a game
Iceland

In the knockouts, Southgate beat Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Southgate won 9 knockout games in 4 tournaments. In the previous 30 years, you won 6 knockout games in 16 tournaments (2 of which you didn't qualify for). That's with revered managers like Robson, Venables and Capello.

Fact is, and I don't take joy in saying it, England aren't very good at tournament football and never have been.
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Nor were Spain until they were.
 
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