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Ingerlund

I'm kinda conflicted on the nationality thing, on the one hand, all logic and reason suggests the nationality of the coach is completely irrelevant, place of birth is nothing more than logistics, knowledge, experience, attitude, compassion is what matters.

On the other, it's international football, whats the point if you can pick people from different countries, pick different players too, if all the players have to be of that nationality so should absolutely everyone employed by the organisation, coach driver, physio, social media manager, apply the same criteria.

It just shows what a ridiculous notion national professional sport competition is really.
 
People on here were whinging at the prospect of Tuchel at Spurs, don't see why he's a better fit for England.

Think people are soon going to realise Southgate wasnt as bad as people liked to make him out to be and we won't be getting any further under a 'sexier' name. Funny how almost every England manager ends up getting ridiculed in the public and press, regardless of reputation - wonder when the penny is going to drop that our players aren't actually as good as many like to think they are...
 
harr1984 said:
People on here were whinging at the prospect of Tuchel at Spurs, don't see why he's a better fit for England.

Think people are soon going to realise Southgate wasnt as bad as people liked to make him out to be and we won't be getting any further under a 'sexier' name. Funny how almost every England manager ends up getting ridiculed in the public and press, regardless of reputation - wonder when the penny is going to drop that our players aren't actually as good as many like to think they are...
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He just come across disruptive, I think it's a really bad fit
 
Lemonade Money said:
Why the fudge are we talking to non English managers? Did we learn nothing from Sven and Capello? The FA are about as incompetent as you can get.
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That's the spirit! Always great when people set their stall out right from the off, can't wait to see you give the manager/ team a fair shake, rather than moaning at the slightest hiccup as it'll validate your current outrage.

Who would you rather be appointed, and how much of a factor is their nationality in that decision?

FWIW I wouldn't mind Howe but don't think he'd take the job currently. Potter, I'm not sure about, not sure what other credible English candidates were out there...

Southgate has made this more of a poisoned chalice job than ever before, either we win a trophy or something presumably it's because the manager is a macaron who couldn't even do better than that over promoted PE teacher.
 
spurspinter1 said:
That's the spirit! Always great when people set their stall out right from the off, can't wait to see you give the manager/ team a fair shake, rather than moaning at the slightest hiccup as it'll validate your current outrage.

Who would you rather be appointed, and how much of a factor is their nationality in that decision?

FWIW I wouldn't mind Howe but don't think he'd take the job currently. Potter, I'm not sure about, not sure what other credible English candidates were out there...

Southgate has made this more of a poisoned chalice job than ever before, either we win a trophy or something presumably it's because the manager is a macaron who couldn't even do better than that over promoted PE teacher.
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Southgate made it worse by being good at it?
 
Mikey10 said:
Hmmm…as someone with no stake in it , that seems an odd appointment from all sorts of angles.
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Why is it odd? Makes perfect sense to me. He's available, has pedigree and is a good tactician, which is what you need in this job. All that crap about building and creating a style in national teams is useless! They meet for like 3-4 weeks during the year. How are you going to implement any sort of complex style and pattern in that short time?
You need someone capable of setting up a team on a game by game basis.
Think Tuchel fits that quite well.
 
Baleforce said:
Southgate made it worse by being good at it?
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Think he has a point funnily enough. Southgate is widely derided as a yes man and a glorified PE teacher. Objectively, he did very well and got to the latter stages (semi final, final) more often than any other England manager in history.

If Tuchel or whoever comes in and "only" match that standard or do worse, they'll be slaughtered as being "even worse than Southgate who was brick".

The only real place to improve on Southgate is to win a major tournament and England have won 1 in 80 years of trying.
 
The whole Southgate debate is so cringe. It's one of those that neither side will ever agree on. One side says he did well to get to finals and semi finals and brought this group together again, Yet the other side will say he still won nothing, the same as all other recent England managers, had kind draws in tournaments, Didn't beat any top sides when he came up against them, lost to Hungary, Iceland etc.

On another point, It's mental that the only English coaches are Howe, Dyche or O'Neill. I wonder if more young English coaches should try going abroad to gain experience?
 
dingdongo said:
The whole Southgate debate is so cringe. It's one of those that neither side will ever agree on. One side says he did well to get to finals and semi finals and brought this group together again, Yet the other side will say he still won nothing, the same as all other recent England managers, had kind draws in tournaments, Didn't beat any top sides when he came up against them, lost to Hungary, Iceland etc.

On another point, It's mental that the only English coaches are Howe, Dyche or O'Neill. I wonder if more young English coaches should try going abroad to gain experience?
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There are loads, outside the PL, but what PL manager to make the step down to international football anyway?
 
I thought Southgate did a great job for England, but I don't think he was ever going to make us take that final step up.

He has had a good shot at it, but I felt it was time to bring in someone new with fresh ideas for a new crop of players coming through.

Is he the r ight man for the job, no idea
 
Kandi1977 said:
Why is it odd? Makes perfect sense to me. He's available, has pedigree and is a good tactician, which is what you need in this job. All that crap about building and creating a style in national teams is useless! They meet for like 3-4 weeks during the year. How are you going to implement any sort of complex style and pattern in that short time?
You need someone capable of setting up a team on a game by game basis.
Think Tuchel fits that quite well.
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He falls out with people wherever he goes, engineers conflict and confrontation as he feels it is essential to success, and is famous for having a short fuse. Think he may therefore struggle to deal with the media, players' clubs, and the additional pressure heaped on him as a non-English man in charge of the national team...but I could well be very wrong, of course.

His playing style is complex and requires a lot of flexibility from his squads - he'll get a couple of weeks with these players three times per year. Long enough to implement what he needs to?
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think he has a point funnily enough. Southgate is widely derided as a yes man and a glorified PE teacher. Objectively, he did very well and got to the latter stages (semi final, final) more often than any other England manager in history.

If Tuchel or whoever comes in and "only" match that standard or do worse, they'll be slaughtered as being "even worse than Southgate who was brick".

The only real place to improve on Southgate is to win a major tournament and England have won 1 in 80 years of trying.
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Thanks for saving me typing out a full response, I didn't think the notion of a predecessor raising expectations whilst simultaneously being considered a joke was that complicated.

Objectively, by metric of tournament positions, it's going to be tough for anyone to do better than Southgate.

For me Tuchel is an intriguing proposition, he made Chelsea very hard to play against and effective in crucial games. I hope he can do the same for us, the guy has got to know what he is getting into so must have some kind of plan for getting all of the talented players we have into the same team, or to be bold enough to drop those that can't show their club form - The most pertinent recent examples being Kane and Foden at the Euros, the step down in quality from them was quite something!
 
dingdongo said:
The whole Southgate debate is so cringe. It's one of those that neither side will ever agree on. One side says he did well to get to finals and semi finals and brought this group together again, Yet the other side will say he still won nothing, the same as all other recent England managers, had kind draws in tournaments, Didn't beat any top sides when he came up against them, lost to Hungary, Iceland etc.

On another point, It's mental that the only English coaches are Howe, Dyche or O'Neill. I wonder if more young English coaches should try going abroad to gain experience?
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How is that debate cringe? Tedious / boring, I'd give you that.

One side is looking at results (which are apparently important in football) and the other dealing in unquantifiable emotional outbursts overlooking that you can only play who you get drawn against in tournament football, whilst offering no viable suggestions as to who else would do a better job. When pressed, someone on here said Ancelotti ffs

In terms of whether someone enjoyed the football is another thing but at least that's in the domain of opinions. It's usually at the level of "My mate sent me a meme about Harry Maguire so I have now subconsciously decided that he is an awful player regardless of his performances for the national team" but at least it's subjective.

I do get that people sometimes want to vent, even if it's just parroting braindead "opinions" and having a pop at them isn't necessarily going to change things, even if it seems like I don't fully comprehend that key point!
 
Mikey10 said:
He falls out with people wherever he goes, engineers conflict and confrontation as he feels it is essential to success, and is famous for having a short fuse. Think he may therefore struggle to deal with the media, players' clubs, and the additional pressure heaped on him as a non-English man in charge of the national team...but I could well be very wrong, of course.

His playing style is complex and requires a lot of flexibility from his squads - he'll get a couple of weeks with these players three times per year. Long enough to implement what he needs to?
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That's the story we get told by the media and players with more ego than talent. I hope he's a success although I would prefer a British manager or someone who has come through the FA coaching programme. It's a major failure by the FA that after all the money and facilities they have got they can't produce more candidates for the job.
 
spurspinter1 said:
How is that debate cringe? Tedious / boring, I'd give you that.

One side is looking at results (which are apparently important in football) and the other dealing in unquantifiable emotional outbursts overlooking that you can only play who you get drawn against in tournament football, whilst offering no viable suggestions as to who else would do a better job. When pressed, someone on here said Ancelotti ffs

In terms of whether someone enjoyed the football is another thing but at least that's in the domain of opinions. It's usually at the level of "My mate sent me a meme about Harry Maguire so I have now subconsciously decided that he is an awful player regardless of his performances for the national team" but at least it's subjective.

I do get that people sometimes want to vent, even if it's just parroting braindead "opinions" and having a pop at them isn't necessarily going to change things, even if it seems like I don't fully comprehend that key point!
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Too often opinions are promoted to facts.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
That's the story we get told by the media and players with more ego than talent. I hope he's a success although I would prefer a British manager or someone who has come through the FA coaching programme. It's a major failure by the FA that after all the money and facilities they have got they can't produce more candidates for the job.
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Having worked with the PL during Covid I have an old colleague who was the PL liaison and unfortunately its true by all accounts, he was prickly, complex and fell out with people over trivial and peripheral things apparently. By all accounts (only on what I was told so take as you wish) he is a complete oddball.

I don't think its a good fit for the reasons @Mikey10 pointed out but lets see
 
dingdongo said:
The whole Southgate debate is so cringe. It's one of those that neither side will ever agree on. One side says he did well to get to finals and semi finals and brought this group together again, Yet the other side will say he still won nothing, the same as all other recent England managers, had kind draws in tournaments, Didn't beat any top sides when he came up against them, lost to Hungary, Iceland etc.

On another point, It's mental that the only English coaches are Howe, Dyche or O'Neill. I wonder if more young English coaches should try going abroad to gain experience?
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One issue here which I strongly believe in is that football bodies have monetised badges as a way of deciding who can coach and who can't and the FA costs are ridiculous, UEFA C £650, UEFA B £1,200 UEFA C £650, UEFA B £1,200, UEFA A £4,000, UEFA Pro £13,700!! Its frankly mental that the FA decide who is fit to coach so are we saying those that get UEFA Pro and subsequently go on to be crap managers prove the system is wrong? Or is it just abit of a con. I think its both TBH.

A good manager is a good manager, we should encourage people to do it and be thinkers of the game in their own ways
 
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