Hugo Lloris

[ArcspacE]

 

[Park Lane James]

Delusional for wanting the best player in a position? Righto.

He's persisting with a goalie that's playing on a 6.5/10 - and soon will play a goalie which is playing even better

We are yet to keep a clean sheet in the PL under Brad, mind you

Have you spoken to Lloris or AVB recently? How do you know what their thought processes are? Boas might want to integrate Lloris into the squad to get an understanding of his defence before he throws him into league game. We have the luxury of cup games so he gets used to the club and his teammates/coaches etc.

There is a lot more to football management than picking the best player for the position each game.

 

[Park Lane James]

Mr Consistent wont make enough clangers to be dropped. The boy Hugo has a challenge on his hands.

Friedel is just being greedy. 41, long career, now he needs to step aside.

Wind up? He's been picked to play, so he's doing so. He's 41 and knows fully well that Lloris will take over eventually.

Idiotic to think that he's greedy - you want a professional sportsman to be greedy to a certain extent otherwise their competitive drive will be stifled.

 

[ArcspacE]

Have you spoken to Lloris or AVB recently? How do you know what their thought processes are? Boas might want to integrate Lloris into the squad to get an understanding of his defence before he throws him into league game. We have the luxury of cup games so he gets used to the club and his teammates/coaches etc.

There is a lot more to football management than picking the best player for the position each game.

Nope, have you?

How is he meant to be' integrated' into the squad a get an 'understanding of his defence' is he's not playing? I thought last night was a brilliant opportunity for that, yet we saw a guy who appears not to be part of any long terms plans and will probably leave (along with Gomes) in January.

Unless he was injured - I found it very, very strange to see Lloris left out last night. Unless of couse he's planning to start him at Old Trafford.

 

[indianspur]

Wind up? He's been picked to play, so he's doing so. He's 41 and knows fully well that Lloris will take over eventually.

Idiotic to think that he's greedy - you want a professional sportsman to be greedy to a certain extent otherwise their competitive drive will be stifled.

look, weve spent a heap of money on a top class keeper, French number 1, rated as one of the best keepers in Europe. I personally would like to see him as our number 1 in the league and even in Europe. I see no sense in delaying his inclusion. I know Brad has been great, and is still in fine form, but he is out of contract at the end of the season. He will be gone unless he wants to stay as number 2 for another year. So why wait to unleash Lloris. Why risk pi$$ing him off. We were lucky to get him, lucky he decided to join us, and like any other highly rated player i wanna see him play

And Brad doesnt have to be disappointed. As i said, he has had a long career and can still continue it as a number 1 by maybe finding a new club in Jan. thats for him to decide.

 

[Seedy Ron]

No - something the defenders have been doing. Then when someone plays a back-pass to Brad he 9/10 times launches it forward to the giant target man Jermain Defoe. And it's lost forever.

That's a made up number though isn't it Arcy, it makes the problem sound worse than it is. Hugo looks more assured with the ball at his feet certainly, but you're making it sound like we're constantly giving the ball back with Brad, which isn't true. It's also worth noting we overplayed in our own end on at least one occassion versus Lazio (Caulker ended up getting in a mess and conceding possession), sometimes you need to put your foot through it.

Brad's making the saves he needs to make and giving us plenty of chance to win games. He's also old, and Hugo young, so there will inevitably be a swapping over at some point. That point just isn't right now.

 

[ArcspacE]

No mate, I said when we do give the ball back to Brad he often goes for a long-punt (when under zero pressure from an opponent) instead of a short intelligent pass to feet, allowing us to keep possession and carry out the ball from the back. Observe at our next game, if for argument's sake if nothing else.

I simply question why we are delaying the inevitable and risking disharmony (remember Lukaku's and Anelka's comments about AVB last season). If Lloris starts on Saturday Brad needs to understand it's not because he's done something wrong - simply there is someone better now. If we signed Falcao tomorrow, would you keep him on the bench behind Defoe because he scored a few this season?

 

[jts1882]

Seems asking for trouble to debut a new goalkeeper at Old Trafford. With our record there we can expect something to go wrong. Goalkeepers are confidence creatures so it could backfire. I expect to see Brad at OT and Lloris in Athens.

I hope that the reasoning behind the slow transition are being explained to Lloris carefully - the confidence issue again - and I assume it has. I doubt he is relying on the French press to explain the situation.

I can see why he wasn't put in the team at the first possible moment, but would be worried if he is not he starter in the league soon. He was bought to be our main man, he's not a young player for the future and you don't spend that much on a back-up goalkeeper. Brad is reliable but he doesn't make the great diving at full stretch saves any more, saves that Gomes would often make. I'm of the opinion that we concede more goals of this type with Friedel than we would with Gomes' blunders. The difference is the Brad doesn't spread panic in the defence the way Gomes can. We need a reassuring presence and someone who can make the difficult saves. Lloris was bought to be that man so needs to start playing. Would anyone advocate Defoe remaining in the side when Adebayor is fit, just because he's playing well.

 

[Seedy Ron]

I simply question why we are delaying the inevitable and risking disharmony (remember Lukaku's and Anelka's comments about AVB last season). If Lloris starts on Saturday Brad needs to understand it's not because he's done something wrong - simply there is someone better now. If we signed Falcao tomorrow, would you keep him on the bench behind Defoe because he scored a few this season?

So dropping Brad wouldn't risk disharmony? The players wouldn't look at how well Brad has played this year, see that its actually counting for very little, and be a bit perturbed by it?

Brad's conceded 1.2 per game this year, that should give our forwards a good chance to win the games, particularly home games against teams like West Brom and Norwich. He's not only a solid keeper, but also makes some tremendous stops when asked of him. To me, dropping a player who is doing the job asked of him well is a more sure fire route to upsetting the team than not picking a guy for a few months who, possibly, thinks he should be playing. If Hugo can't look at Brad's performances and see why he's not playing at the moment, then GHod help us if, when Hugo does take over, he hits a patch of bad form and needs to sit a while.

So in answer to the Falcao/Ade question, yes if Defoe is in form and scoring, I'd stick with him and introduce/reintroduce the other guy over time. Form doesn't last forever, just as Brad's form won't last forever, just needs a little patience.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Nope, have you?

How is he meant to be' integrated' into the squad a get an 'understanding of his defence' is he's not playing? I thought last night was a brilliant opportunity for that, yet we saw a guy who appears not to be part of any long terms plans and will probably leave (along with Gomes) in January.

Unless he was injured - I found it very, very strange to see Lloris left out last night. Unless of couse he's planning to start him at Old Trafford.

:lol:

we broke our record fee for a keeper and we have no long term plan for his use and he'll leave in Jan?

this place, sometimes.

 

[indianspur]

:lol:

we broke our record fee for a keeper and we have no long term plan for his use and he'll leave in Jan?

this place, sometimes.

if he doesnt become our number 1 by Jan, and lets say PSG come sniffing, i cant see us being able to convince him to want to stay. We can force him to stay of course, but all in all we'll have a very unhappy bunny on our hands

 

[Pirate55]

Nope, have you?

How is he meant to be' integrated' into the squad a get an 'understanding of his defence' is he's not playing? I thought last night was a brilliant opportunity for that, yet we saw a guy who appears not to be part of any long terms plans and will probably leave (along with Gomes) in January.

Unless he was injured - I found it very, very strange to see Lloris left out last night. Unless of couse he's planning to start him at Old Trafford.

I understand your reasoning but I think that to give any player (never mind a pivotal one like a goalkeeper) a league debut at OT is a huge gamble. I think he didnt play Lloris yesterday at Carlisle was that a wet and windy match against underdogs in the cup away from home on a treacherous surface is also not the ideal time to bring in a new goalkeeper however good he is. A goalkeeper could normally play two games in three days so I dont think it was to "save his legs"

I would keep Lloris for Pana and then maybe debut him in the PL against Villa at home.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

if he doesnt become our number 1 by Jan, and lets say PSG come sniffing, i cant see us being able to convince him to want to stay. We can force him to stay of course, but all in all we'll have a very unhappy bunny on our hands

this thing blowing out of all recognition, and that's in part down the 24/7 nature of the net, rolling sports news, agenda-driven dedicated sports radio, impatient fans and so on.

the fact is the guy's had fewer than 2 weeks of full training, has moved to a new country and, yes, is in competition for his place right now, but mid to long term, he's our man.

 

[indianspur]

this thing blowing out of all recognition, and that's in part down the 24/7 nature of the net, rolling sports news, agenda-driven dedicated sports radio, impatient fans and so on.

the fact is the guy's had fewer than 2 weeks of full training, has moved to a new country and, yes, is in competition for his place right now, but mid to long term, he's our man.

thats a bit lame.....He's had a full pre season with Lyon, started their league campaign, played internationals, is fit, is experienced, he can speak english (we have defenders who can speak french anyway) Really, what does he need to get used to? all these excuses are ridiculous.

 

[ArcspacE]

:lol:

we broke our record fee for a keeper and we have no long term plan for his use and he'll leave in Jan?

this place, sometimes.

I was referring to Carlo - read the sentence again

 

[ArcspacE]

So dropping Brad wouldn't risk disharmony? The players wouldn't look at how well Brad has played this year, see that its actually counting for very little, and be a bit perturbed by it?

Brad's conceded 1.2 per game this year, that should give our forwards a good chance to win the games, particularly home games against teams like West Brom and Norwich. He's not only a solid keeper, but also makes some tremendous stops when asked of him. To me, dropping a player who is doing the job asked of him well is a more sure fire route to upsetting the team than not picking a guy for a few months who, possibly, thinks he should be playing. If Hugo can't look at Brad's performances and see why he's not playing at the moment, then GHod help us if, when Hugo does take over, he hits a patch of bad form and needs to sit a while.

So in answer to the Falcao/Ade question, yes if Defoe is in form and scoring, I'd stick with him and introduce/reintroduce the other guy over time. Form doesn't last forever, just as Brad's form won't last forever, just needs a little patience.

I disagree with most you reasoning above - but can understand where you're coming from

Not sure what more is there to say that I haven't already - both on Brad and Lloris

 

[africanspurs]

The fudging state of this thread

I don't understand why it's hard for some people to grasp that wanting Lloris in the team doesn't mean you are hating on Friedel and why such a big deal is being made out of how people choose to rate the performances of each - this doedn't need to become a devisive topic, but sadly some will be intent on making it one.

i know what you mean but it would get divisive simply because people may or may not feel that one is treated and judged unfairly in comparison with another. there was a topic on something like that a few months ago which was a pretty big one here....its still simmering under the surface that one so will come back at some point

but take this one into account. alot of people last season were pretty vocal in that brad was one of our better most consistent guys. fast forward to people seeing us buy a 'first world marketed' goalkeeper and all of a sudden brad is all at fault for a majority of our goals because allegedly he 'never come off his line'. was this criticism there last season in a big way? no it wasnt, at least i dont think it was.

people's memories are very short to me, someone who never came off his line was paul robinson and that only came about when his confidence was butchered...before that he was okay. Brad friedel is not nearly as bad as robinson was just before he left us....brad isnt schemichel but then again who is....not everyone can do everything well..otherwise you would be the best. or close to

its even gotten to the point where people rate brad and lloris differently...on different critteria. so they both play the same position but they get marked on different things. a few people have rated lloris' performance against lazio on anything his actual performance.....his duties took a back seat to him being lloris and that it was his first game. Brad however is marked on every little thing that people can find...and he's actually marked down first and then marked up on only the stuff that "wows" the crowd...if lloris comes out to catch the ball for an uncontested cross..that counts in his favour. that doesnt count in brads favour.....yep he saved shots...but they were 'near him'....no points for that.

of course its going to be divisive, and of course people are going to be seen as haters. how can you not be seen as a hater when you are unfair to one person and go easy on the other guy?

and this thing about coming off your line....it makes it seem like the box is clear of obstacles...is there even a clear line of path / sight to the ball coming at pace at various trajectories? we've seen what thats like with gomes. i didnt like it. thought it was the better option that robinson

p.s:- YOU are not a hater btw, wasnt talking about you. plus if you rate lloris over brad that's cool...people are allowed to do so. i rate mayuka as the best striker in the world. cant believe rickie lambert is playing ahead of him

on this lloris v freidel thing i can see both sides.....the side that want to new signing to play because of the aura surrounding him, his pedigree, the money invested and the mystique of a new young signing against an older one.....and i understand those that want the guy with the gun to shoot blindly first before putting him in an old people's home; brads playing well right now (heh actually another misconception,.... he ALWAYS plays to this level. ) and shouldnt be rewarded with the bench for no good reason. it shows that hard work and performances count for nothing...just reputation and ego

 

[ArcspacE]

Some delicious irony

Surely the word 'hater' used in its extremity (as wrong/dvisive as it might be) is no different to a 'lover' - as the other extremity.

Can't wait for Lloris to be esablised - hope those who are doubting now would come forth and repent!

 

[harr1984]

Is anyone doubting Lloris though? Don't see how saying Brad's the man in form and therefore should remain first choice until he dips in form should equate to that.

African is correct about the Friedel/lloris ratings, it was cringeworthy reading some people's assessments of Lloris' Lazio performance. He had sod all to do, and had that been Brad he would have definitely got a worse mark - I dont care that it was his debut and doesn't properly know his team mates he didn't have anything to do bar a couple of nice passes and watch the ball hit the crossbar....

 

[ArcspacE]

How is Brad in form? Or more over - what form is he in? He hasn't kept a single clean sheet this season and averaged over 1 goal per game?

He's done an ok job and nothing more - so why not give a chance to someone superior to prove himself.

Should we wait for Brad to cost us games before we decide to make the switch?

The Brad 'lovers' are not different to the 'haters', imv