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Hugo Lloris

Bedfordspurs said:
AKE plays left
He would be coming to eventually replace Jan
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I know - he's a left-footed CB, which is rare. He'd be valuable.

However, he'd also be our only major CB addition if we do get him, I think. Because he would be expensive (at least 50m, I'd imagine) and that would make four CBs who are all pretty good - Verts, Sanchez, Foyth and Ake (when Toby leaves).

And the problem would then be that none of them are really vocal leaders of the back line. Is it worth losing that capability with Toby and only replacing it with another left-footed CB to phase Jan out? We'd be leaving ourselves open to disorganization at the back, imo.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I know - he's a left-footed CB, which is rare. He'd be valuable.

However, he'd also be our only major CB addition if we do get him, I think. Because he would be expensive (at least 50m, I'd imagine) and that would make four CBs who are all pretty good - Verts, Sanchez, Foyth and Ake (when Toby leaves).

And the problem would then be that none of them are really vocal leaders of the back line. Is it worth losing that capability with Toby and only replacing it with another left-footed CB to phase Jan out? We'd be leaving ourselves open to disorganization at the back, imo.
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From what I’ve read and heard from players the best captains are rarely that vocal... we as fans love a player showing it all on the pitch but a lot of players don’t
 
Bedfordspurs said:
From what I’ve read and heard from players the best captains are rarely that vocal... we as fans love a player showing it all on the pitch but a lot of players don’t
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I'm not comparing him to the shouty blokes, although I agree that fans tend to overrate that style of leadership.

I'm comparing him to Toby, who calmly and methodically directs Sanchez on where to go, drops in to cover him when he does surge forward to pass it out or press someone, and generally communicates a lot with Sanchez, Lloris and the full-backs to ensure that they're all in the right positions relative to each other.

Verts does that *less*. He certainly still does it, but I feel like he's more focused on being individually excellent than he is on orchestrating the whole defence like Toby is.

It was even evident when the two played together - Toby was the one directing Verts, not the other way around (although they had enough of an understanding that he rarely needed to tell Verts anything - they knew their roles).
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'm not comparing him to the shouty blokes, although I agree that fans tend to overrate that style of leadership.

I'm comparing him to Toby, who calmly and methodically directs Sanchez on where to go, drops in to cover him when he does surge forward to pass it out or press someone, and generally communicates a lot with Sanchez, Lloris and the full-backs to ensure that they're all in the right positions relative to each other.

Verts does that *less*. He certainly still does it, but I feel like he's more focused on being individually excellent than he is on orchestrating the whole defence like Toby is.

It was even evident when the two played together - Toby was the one directing Verts, not the other way around (although they had enough of an understanding that he rarely needed to tell Verts anything - they knew their roles).
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You may be right, I don’t know. For me i see Verts displaying as much leadership as Toby - and I don’t see either excelling in showing it on the pitch so who knows
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fully agreed. Moreover, one of my worries re: the CB position is that we only have one natural 'leader' in that role - namely, Toby. And Toby's off in the summer.

I get flak for this, but I'm firmly of the opinion that Verts isn't a leader of the back line in the way that Toby is. He communicates less, and the defense just looks a bit less joined up when he's in there with one of Sanchez or Foyth (both of whom need to be led). Don't get me wrong, Verts is *individually* excellent - probably the best left-footed centre-back in the league, and in the top five centre-backs in Europe when on form. But he isn't a leader in the way that Toby is.

And if we buy Ake or a similar player to replace Toby, we will have a problem on our hands when he leaves - namely, that we won't have a real, vocal leader of the back line in there. Hugo doesn't really do that, and, as mentioned, Sanchez and Foyth are young enough that they don't really do that either. We need someone willing to do so.
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Have to disagree with your bolded bit mate, Jan was captain at Ajax for a while and he has also done the job for his national team. If you watch him during a game he is always talking to those players on his team. It may not be seen as much on the box but at the game you can see him talking and moving players around.
 
I think it's quite telling that Verts has always been in Poch's leadership group, along with Lloris and Kane, while Alder never has.

In fact I think Dier has also taken the armband ahead of Alder when none of the main 3 have been on the pitch.
 
parklane1 said:
Have to disagree with your bolded bit mate, Jan was captain at Ajax for a while and he has also done the job for his national team. If you watch him during a game he is always talking to those players on his team. It may not be seen as much on the box but at the game you can see him talking and moving players around.
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Fair enough, mate - it definitely might look different live as opposed to on the telly. On the box, though, you can usually see (and hear) Toby talking - not so much with Verts. And my general opinion is that we look a little shakier as a whole when Verts is the senior CB in the pair, in part because of this.

I could definitely be wrong, though.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fair enough, mate - it definitely might look different live as opposed to on the telly. On the box, though, you can usually see (and hear) Toby talking - not so much with Verts. And my general opinion is that we look a little shakier as a whole when Verts is the senior CB in the pair, in part because of this.

I could definitely be wrong, though.
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My opinion (as an organising CB) is the more you shout, the less well drilled you are. You only shout to correct something that has gone wrong. When the line is working in sync, with honed collective understanding and to pre-determined plans, you don't need to say a word. Plus much of your communication is with hand gestures or mutterings under your breath, as you don't really want to alert your opponents to what you are setting.

I also think Verts-Sanchez is a better pairing than Alder-Sanchez, and that Verts takes on the role of the senior one in the Verts-Alder pairing
 
I hate to say it and be "that guy" but he's done it again tonight - that was a really poor decision to come for a corner he was never getting - and he put us right up against it.

I really want us to buy a new keeper in the summer - not to replace Lloris, but to challenge him. Either that or he should be dropped for Gazzaniga or forgotten little dutch boy to make him realise he's not a guaranteed starter. He needs to be pushed.
 
There was another occasion tonight where Jan under pressure had passed the ball back to Lloris. Toby was telling him to play it quickly out to Sanchez. But Lloris decided to delay, take a look around and by the time he did pass it out, Watford had a man on Sanchez and the ball went out for a Watford throw in.
Still think he’s our best keeper but his decision making and decisiveness seem a bit off sometimes.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
There was another occasion tonight where Jan under pressure had passed the ball back to Lloris. Toby was telling him to play it quickly out to Sanchez. But Lloris decided to delay, take a look around and by the time he did pass it out, Watford had a man on Sanchez and the ball went out for a Watford throw in.
Still think he’s our best keeper but his decision making and decisiveness seem a bit off sometimes.
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He appears to still be having a bit of a hangover from the summer. That is not a pun.
 
I don't know what's happened to Hugo over the last 2-3 years. When he first came, I seldom remember him making many howlers. The first one I can really recall was in the 2-2 draw at City a few years back when he was at fault for both. Since then, he's made quite a few of them and fairly consistently.

He's the best keeper I've seen at Spurs and I've been a staunch defender of him but he's deteriorated in a way that a keeper his age shouldn't be deteriorating.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don't know what's happened to Hugo over the last 2-3 years. When he first came, I seldom remember him making many howlers. The first one I can really recall was in the 2-2 draw at City a few years back when he was at fault for both. Since then, he's made quite a few of them and fairly consistently.

He's the best keeper I've seen at Spurs and I've been a staunch defender of him but he's deteriorated in a way that a keeper his age shouldn't be deteriorating.
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It's the nature of keepers, most of the better keepers (and people very rarely admit this) make their reputation based on 3-4 years at top of their game, and keepers can drop off badly (not saying it's happening with Hugo)

De Gea had a fudging mare for the first half of this season, was very ordinary and then of course had a blinder against us .. but it shows how good keepers have off runs.

Question with Hugo is has it become a concentration thing? when he first came to Spurs we were absolute brick and he was always involved. As we have become more and more a possession based team, where opponents often have less opportunities and less time in our third, is he not as "focused" ..

still a very good keeper and miles from the brick I've had to endure in my lifetime as a Spurs fan.
 
Was Lloris that bad last season? Is our defence worse this? It would be interesting to see if he's facing more attempts on goal this season, because if he was making X mistakes per Y attempts before, then that may go some why to explaining this season (along with the WC hangover)?
 
Making to many mistakes, drop him and give Gazza ago. You don’t learn if your mistakes keep going unpunished from the manager.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Was Lloris that bad last season? Is our defence worse this? It would be interesting to see if he's facing more attempts on goal this season, because if he was making X mistakes per Y attempts before, then that may go some why to explaining this season (along with the WC hangover)?
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I think defensively we are much, much worse than we have been. I wouldnt be at all surprised if Lloris confidence is impacted as a result.

I dont think its the defence either, rather its the midfield - or lack there of.

Sissoko and Winks doesnt compare to Dembele/Wanyama/Dier for protecting the back line and snuffing out danger.

Just think back to pretty well any game this season, always chances where the other team has been able to stroll through the middle of the pitch...
 
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