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Hugo Lloris

Again this just goes back to my original post there are plenty of reasons why bigger clubs didnt want him at the time, none of them needed a top keeper at the time like GB said - you dont stock up on class GKs like you can outfield players. We simply got lucky, you still havent given an actual footballing reason as to why Lloris would have been a gamble. By your logic any player we ever sign would be a gamble because Real Madrid et al didn't sign them....
The gamble was less for us in his case because he was cheap, but there were question marks about his mentality whilst at Lyon. Iirc he had had a couple of average seasons for them and some were questioning if he would ever get a top move that had been predicted in his better years.
 
The gamble was less for us in his case because he was cheap, but there were question marks about his mentality whilst at Lyon. Iirc he had had a couple of average seasons for them and some were questioning if he would ever get a top move that had been predicted in his better years.

You keep asking, but when people answer you avoid their answer?

I don't think Lloris is comparable to Modric and Berbatov personally. Lloris was much further along towards proving his class when we signed him than those two other players imo. As was illustrated by some of the posts on here when we signed him iirc.

Not sure how big the question marks about his mentality were, we're talking about a goalkeeper that was made captain of France in his mid twenties here...
 
I was convinced we were being used to try and get a better offer from a bigger club, but when no one else came in for him we were the best / only offer on the table. Lyon needed the money and lloris had served his time there and was happy to leave. The reason no other clubs came in for him was because, as others have mentioned, the "better" clubs than us (of which I guess there were only 15 or so at the time) were already well stocked.

We just got unbelievably lucky and that's not hindsight talking, you just need to look at the posts when we signed him, most were raving about him with a few detractors because he was a Johnny Foreigner that they hadn't seen play enough, ergo he couldn't be any good !
 
Actually, again, even without the help of hindsight, it was obvious arsenal should have been in for him, but wenger has these blind spots thank GHod!
 
You keep asking, but when people answer you avoid their answer?

I don't think Lloris is comparable to Modric and Berbatov personally. Lloris was much further along towards proving his class when we signed him than those two other players imo. As was illustrated by some of the posts on here when we signed him iirc.

Not sure how big the question marks about his mentality were, we're talking about a goalkeeper that was made captain of France in his mid twenties here...

The big difference people are missing is

- you can always have another quality defender/midfielder/striker due to systems/injuries/suspensions
- Most sides only have one top quality keeper as they will likely play 95% of games for several years.
- As someone else pointed out, probably only the Scum at the time had a "open" spot for a #1 keeper, and Wenger is/was blind to it.

We actually do pretty well in the market for our size and lack of CL play, yes there are failures, but Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Ade, Sandro, Lloris are all good examples of a well thought out player acquisition strategy.
 
He'll be here for the next year, and (if we tempt him with a fat extension) perhaps another year after that. By 2016, if we haven't secured CL football or shown evidence of being able to do so (trophy wins, like the FA Cup or the EL, for example) he will certainly be off. Even if we did get CL in 2016, he'd probably only stay for a year, max. Not that I begrudge him any move he might want to make (he's served us well in his two years here so far, and another one or two would probably leave even the most hardened of us open to an amicable exit for the guy), but Lloris in goal post 2017 is almost impossible given his talent and his ambitions.

I know that's a long way away, but we should start planning for his eventual departure, imo. A young understudy brought in to learn from him and adapt to his tactical role on the field would do wonders for the goalkeeping transition, when it eventually occurs. We aren't going to get lucky on another Hugo Lloris again, so why not plan ahead?
 
He'll be here for the next year, and (if we tempt him with a fat extension) perhaps another year after that. By 2016, if we haven't secured CL football or shown evidence of being able to do so (trophy wins, like the FA Cup or the EL, for example) he will certainly be off. Even if we did get CL in 2016, he'd probably only stay for a year, max. Not that I begrudge him any move he might want to make (he's served us well in his two years here so far, and another one or two would probably leave even the most hardened of us open to an amicable exit for the guy), but Lloris in goal post 2017 is almost impossible given his talent and his ambitions.

I know that's a long way away, but we should start planning for his eventual departure, imo. A young understudy brought in to learn from him and adapt to his tactical role on the field would do wonders for the goalkeeping transition, when it eventually occurs. We aren't going to get lucky on another Hugo Lloris again, so why not plan ahead?

If we want to keep him we could just break his confidence like we did Gomes ;)
 
He'll be here for the next year, and (if we tempt him with a fat extension) perhaps another year after that. By 2016, if we haven't secured CL football or shown evidence of being able to do so (trophy wins, like the FA Cup or the EL, for example) he will certainly be off. Even if we did get CL in 2016, he'd probably only stay for a year, max. Not that I begrudge him any move he might want to make (he's served us well in his two years here so far, and another one or two would probably leave even the most hardened of us open to an amicable exit for the guy), but Lloris in goal post 2017 is almost impossible given his talent and his ambitions.

I know that's a long way away, but we should start planning for his eventual departure, imo. A young understudy brought in to learn from him and adapt to his tactical role on the field would do wonders for the goalkeeping transition, when it eventually occurs. We aren't going to get lucky on another Hugo Lloris again, so why not plan ahead?

Goalkeeper transitions are tremendously difficult to manage successfully. Off the top of my head I struggle to think of a big or big-ish club successfully transitioning from a top class first choice goalkeeper to a younger one either because they sold the old first choice or because he got too old. I'm sure there are examples, but I think they must be rare.

It's just such a jump from being a young promising goalkeeper that would accept being our second choice/understudy to being first choice with very little chance to bed someone in through subs and appearances against smaller teams as you can when rotating outfield players. Then you often run into "problems" if the first choice player stays a year longer than the up and coming younger goalkeeper wants to wait so he'll be looking for a move. Then when they get the role the pressure is massive, but they have no experience to actually handle it and when the almost inevitable drop in form/random pile-up of errors happens everyone will be screaming for a replacement as this kid isn't good enough.

I suppose the Chelsea route of signing the highest rated young goalkeeper in the world for a lot of money then sending him out on loan is a potential route to go. But it's expensive and attracting that level of youngster is tough.

I actually think we're just as well off saving the money we could spend on a talented understudy, just accept that we have a first choice goalie and a solid backup goalie (Friedel). If the first choice is sold buy the best replacement we can afford and get, if the backup wants out or retires buy a suitable replacement.
 
What, the 2002 CL final for Leverkusen against Madrid? He didn't even start the game, he wasn't even a regular at the time iirc.

He was so majestic that he refused to sign for Real, Barca, AcMilan, Bayern Munich etc and he thought no, I want to play for Tottenham Hotspur?

I don't know if over 150 appearances for a club makes you a regular. He scored CL goals and was defintely first choice following the CL final season.
 
Goalkeeper transitions are tremendously difficult to manage successfully. Off the top of my head I struggle to think of a big or big-ish club successfully transitioning from a top class first choice goalkeeper to a younger one either because they sold the old first choice or because he got too old. I'm sure there are examples, but I think they must be rare.

It's just such a jump from being a young promising goalkeeper that would accept being our second choice/understudy to being first choice with very little chance to bed someone in through subs and appearances against smaller teams as you can when rotating outfield players. Then you often run into "problems" if the first choice player stays a year longer than the up and coming younger goalkeeper wants to wait so he'll be looking for a move. Then when they get the role the pressure is massive, but they have no experience to actually handle it and when the almost inevitable drop in form/random pile-up of errors happens everyone will be screaming for a replacement as this kid isn't good enough.

I suppose the Chelsea route of signing the highest rated young goalkeeper in the world for a lot of money then sending him out on loan is a potential route to go. But it's expensive and attracting that level of youngster is tough.

I actually think we're just as well off saving the money we could spend on a talented understudy, just accept that we have a first choice goalie and a solid backup goalie (Friedel). If the first choice is sold buy the best replacement we can afford and get, if the backup wants out or retires buy a suitable replacement.

The examples are rather thin on the ground, I'll give you that. Hart taking over from Given at City is one of them: Sczneznznzny at Arsenal taking over from Almunia is probably another. However, as I said before, we aren't getting a new Lloris in the transfer market when he leaves, not unless we're in the CL at the time or some world-class GK decides to take a chance on us again, so we should at least try to implement that system and see how it goes: worst comes to worst, we'll struggle goalkeeping wise for a season, but if we can pull it off, we'll have replaced Lloris with a capable understudy for a lower fee than we would have spent securing a player of similiar stature on the open market, and without the possibility of immediate failure that comes with signing a player like that (see Gomes, Heurelho). Either way, there's risk involved, but we haven't tried the former approach while we've been whacking away consistently at the latter, so why not give it a go?

I agree, players who would come here and sit on the bench for a couple of seasons or more waiting for their chance are also somewhat thin on the ground. However, they're far from impossible to find. Jack Butland, tipped to be England's next goalkeeper, has spent the majority of his Stoke career so far kicking his heels on the bench watching Begovic playing instead of him. You've already mentioned Courtois (although that model does seem expensive), and Brad Guzan at Villa further proves that there are young goalkeepers out there willing to learn their trade behind a regular keeper for more than just a season before slotting in to replace said main keeper. And honestly, if we went for someone like Karl Darlow from Nottingham Forest or Alex McCarthy from Reading (just homegrown examples, for the sake of argument) would they really consider themselves prestigious enough to demand a move away from Spurs after just a season or so? Especially if we promised them first-team footie (or a chance at establishing themselves as our first choice) when Lloris leaves?
 
The examples are rather thin on the ground, I'll give you that. Hart taking over from Given at City is one of them: Sczneznznzny at Arsenal taking over from Almunia is probably another. However, as I said before, we aren't getting a new Lloris in the transfer market when he leaves, not unless we're in the CL at the time or some world-class GK decides to take a chance on us again, so we should at least try to implement that system and see how it goes: worst comes to worst, we'll struggle goalkeeping wise for a season, but if we can pull it off, we'll have replaced Lloris with a capable understudy for a lower fee than we would have spent securing a player of similiar stature on the open market, and without the possibility of immediate failure that comes with signing a player like that (see Gomes, Heurelho). Either way, there's risk involved, but we haven't tried the former approach while we've been whacking away consistently at the latter, so why not give it a go?

I agree, players who would come here and sit on the bench for a couple of seasons or more waiting for their chance are also somewhat thin on the ground. However, they're far from impossible to find. Jack Butland, tipped to be England's next goalkeeper, has spent the majority of his Stoke career so far kicking his heels on the bench watching Begovic playing instead of him. You've already mentioned Courtois (although that model does seem expensive), and Brad Guzan at Villa further proves that there are young goalkeepers out there willing to learn their trade behind a regular keeper for more than just a season before slotting in to replace said main keeper. And honestly, if we went for someone like Karl Darlow from Nottingham Forest or Alex McCarthy from Reading (just homegrown examples, for the sake of argument) would they really consider themselves prestigious enough to demand a move away from Spurs after just a season or so? Especially if we promised them first-team footie (or a chance at establishing themselves as our first choice) when Lloris leaves?

Not entirely sure about your accounts of things here.

Butland has been out on loan most of the time since signing for Stoke I believe. He hasn't been ok with sitting on the bench, or Stoke haven't felt ok about leaving him there.

Hart was out on loan at Birmingham the season before replacing Given as City's first choice goalkeeper.

I really don't think Sczneznznzny at Arsenal is a model we should follow for how to manage our goalkeepers. Nor do I think Almunia is a top goalkeeper.

I'll give you Brad Guzan, he's alright, but not much more than that. He's not at a level that would be unattainable for us if we had to sign a new goalkeeper this summer. The benefit just isn't all that big.

I wouldn't mind signing a talented young goalkeeper, but I just don't see it as necessary. Far more important areas to strengthen and as long as Hugo has years left on his contract we'll have funds to replace him if we do end up selling him at some point so for me a Friedel type backup is absolutely fine. If we're talking the benefit of getting another world class goalkeeper I think we have to either spend big, get lucky or look to go down the sign and loan out route.
 
Guzan left Villa a couple of years ago when his contract ran out as he didn't want to be stuck on the bench, but Lambert lured him back the same summer. He's been their number one since then.
 
Not entirely sure about your accounts of things here.

Butland has been out on loan most of the time since signing for Stoke I believe. He hasn't been ok with sitting on the bench, or Stoke haven't felt ok about leaving him there.

Hart was out on loan at Birmingham the season before replacing Given as City's first choice goalkeeper.

I really don't think Sczneznznzny at Arsenal is a model we should follow for how to manage our goalkeepers. Nor do I think Almunia is a top goalkeeper.

I'll give you Brad Guzan, he's alright, but not much more than that. He's not at a level that would be unattainable for us if we had to sign a new goalkeeper this summer. The benefit just isn't all that big.

I wouldn't mind signing a talented young goalkeeper, but I just don't see it as necessary. Far more important areas to strengthen and as long as Hugo has years left on his contract we'll have funds to replace him if we do end up selling him at some point so for me a Friedel type backup is absolutely fine. If we're talking the benefit of getting another world class goalkeeper I think we have to either spend big, get lucky or look to go down the sign and loan out route.

Well, the problem is that I don't see us spending big on a Lloris replacement, not when we managed to grab him for a reasonable fee and when a lot of the money we'll get for his sale is owed to Lyon as per that sell-on clause they apparently have in his contract. We'll likely try to go for the second of your propositions, namely trying to get lucky on a Lloris replacement: unfortunately, given our goalkeeping travails prior to his arrival, I have little confidence that we will succeed again like we did with Hugo. The third route seems the most reasonable, but again, it's not strictly speaking necessary to send the guy out on loan until we're ready to have him back. Look at it this way: yes, what you've said about Butland and Hart is true (and I genuinely had no idea Butland had gone out on loan so much), but again, Szczczczeny disproves your assertion. What's wrong with that guy, anyway? Seems like a good keeper to me: better than good, barring the very occasional area. Commands his box, and is a good shot stopper: a step up from the man he replaced.
 
Mancini could have put his wife in goal and it would have been a successful transition from Given

Arsenal just swapped an old crap keeper for a young crap keeper, no worse for sure, but no better either
 
Well, the problem is that I don't see us spending big on a Lloris replacement, not when we managed to grab him for a reasonable fee and when a lot of the money we'll get for his sale is owed to Lyon as per that sell-on clause they apparently have in his contract. We'll likely try to go for the second of your propositions, namely trying to get lucky on a Lloris replacement: unfortunately, given our goalkeeping travails prior to his arrival, I have little confidence that we will succeed again like we did with Hugo. The third route seems the most reasonable, but again, it's not strictly speaking necessary to send the guy out on loan until we're ready to have him back. Look at it this way: yes, what you've said about Butland and Hart is true (and I genuinely had no idea Butland had gone out on loan so much), but again, Szczczczeny disproves your assertion. What's wrong with that guy, anyway? Seems like a good keeper to me: better than good, barring the very occasional area. Commands his box, and is a good shot stopper: a step up from the man he replaced.

You're talking about my assertion as the part you bolded, right? Did you see the world class part of that? You really think Szczęsny is world class?

Szczęsny is now a good-ish goalkeeper imo, after over 100 appearances for Arsenal. His first couple of seasons were a lot more dodgy. He was an upgrade on who he replaced, but Lloris would have been a solid upgrade for them had Wenger been willing to put some money into the goalkeeping position. I might be underestimating him, but I really don't think he would be hard to replace given a £8-10m budget. We will have significantly more than that available should we decide to sell Hugo.
 
Hugo Lloris - part two

Since the first thread was closed, here's some great news in a new thread: \o/

New deal for Hugo

We are delighted to announce that Hugo Lloris has committed his future to the Club with the signing of a new five-year contract.

Hugo joined from Lyon in August 2012 and has since made 78 appearances in our colours, with his performances in goal making him a firm favourite of the fans.

The 27-year-old French national team captain has just led his country to the quarter-final stage of the World Cup in Brazil and will now enjoy a short break before returning to begin his pre-season training programme with new Head Coach Mauricio Pochettino.

“I spoke with the Chairman and I know the Club is as ambitious as ever,” said Hugo. “It’s very important to feel at home at a club and for my family to feel well. I enjoy a great relationship with the Club and the fans. The arrival of Mauricio Pochettino is important as well. I have a good feeling with him. He is also ambitious.

"Everything is clear in my head and if I’ve signed a new contract it’s because I trust the Club and I’m sure we will progress in a positive way.

“Last season wasn’t the season we all hoped for but we were still able to finish sixth in the league. We know where we have to improve, the Club also knows and there is a feeling and a confident connection between the Club and the players.”
 
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