Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
We already have the next Messi in Marcus Edwards..... there is only room for one 'next Messi' at Spurs
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Harry Winks
- Thread starter elltrev
- Start date
No he was using Silva as an example to demonstrate how England over hype players - Anyone who has technical ability and can pass a ball will be seen as the saviour for England's midfield, whereas an above average version of this for Spain cant even get in their team. He's just referring to how we make out English players to be better than they are which is true....
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
No, we praise a player that seems to have attributes that most people playing in his position for the same country do not have: comfortable touch, vision, coolness under pressure etc. Of course it's not Winks fault that England have far less in the way of pool of talent compared to Spain, but that's not his fault. He isn't being compared to Spain's best midfielders afterall is he?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
First of all. Rita seems to me indistinguishable from a troll. Not convinced I should spend my time giving the benefit of the doubt and reading arguments in a charitable way.
Second. Silva is a very strange comparison. Quite a bit older than Winks when he signed for City. He's not particularly similar to Winks in style. I wouldn't have wanted Silva anchoring our midfield against Real or Liverpool.
Winks is a talent with a lot of potential and already he's showing a lot of ability. Will he reach the heights of David Silva? No one can know for sure. But I see no reason to think he doesn't have the potential to do that - though again, a different type of player.
He has a manager that has done great things with other young players, he seems to have the right attitude and he has the talent. What's not to get excited over? He just played his part in two excellent results and games for the club against top level opposition and Liverpool, despite only having seeing 10 starts for the club. What's not to get excited about?
The English national team can go the way of Holland for all I care. The English football media has all the journalistic integrity of Fox news. The average football fan seems to score a bit too highly on the "Michael Carrick - what does he do" scale of footballing ignorance. I don't particularity care about those opinions. But if we as Spurs fans can't get excited about Harry Winks, his potential, his ability and his current success I don't see much point in following football. And my guess is that Rita is primarily trying to derive pleasure from minimizing that excitement.
Id only seen the one post quoted, and sensed there could be more to it than what I'd seen so should have stayed out of this one. Thought maybe he's been misunderstood as the points hed made in the post I replied to seemed fair. Your response here is spot on anyway.....
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
What he said
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Watched the game again because why not.
Had an extra look at Winks. Barely put a foot wrong in the first 80 minutes. Mostly kept it simple on the ball, but kept it moving and ept himself moving. A couple of sloppy involvements in the final 10 when the game was won. Can be forgiven.
Very good defensively I thought. Liverpool created little to nothing other than their goal. Not only down to Winks of course, not even mainly down to him. But he did his job very well.
Had an extra look at Winks. Barely put a foot wrong in the first 80 minutes. Mostly kept it simple on the ball, but kept it moving and ept himself moving. A couple of sloppy involvements in the final 10 when the game was won. Can be forgiven.
Very good defensively I thought. Liverpool created little to nothing other than their goal. Not only down to Winks of course, not even mainly down to him. But he did his job very well.
I'm going to be a little controversial re Winks
- Do I think he's a decent player with good upside = absolutely
- Do I think he's the next messiah? right now, just don't see it (and yes, could be just me)
Hear me out, Spurs is now a system/machine, everyone knows their role and what is expected of them e.g. look at Sissoko now that he has had enough settling in time (if you looked at none of his games last season, you could easily say he's worth the money). Players are stepping into the side and no longer look completely lost or out of place.
Winks has had the benefit of multiple years of training into the Poch system, comes in, does a job, keeps it simple and holds his own. Does that mean he's a great player? I'm not sure, bias makes me wish it, but have I seen it?
We have to remember Poch's system made plenty of Southampton players look amazing (e.g. Lovren), not many have looked that way post.
Winks is young but Dele, Dembele, Dier, Eriksen, Wanyama have all had games where they have commanded the midfield, dominated the game, imposed themselves, Winks in comparison does a job (and yes, well at times). The difference in doing a job vs. imposing yourself on a game is huge, and it's what will define how good he is/gets to.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Are you English(only reason to watch England play). As winks did exactly what your talking about in his international debut
He also imposed himself enough times as a sub when he has come on
I don’t think we notice it as much as a starter as he just knits it all together but you need those players and he does what wanyama does in a different way
His assured displays against Madrid and Liverpool auger well for the future. If he progresses under Poch (as most players seem to do), then he will be a pivotal part of this group over the coming years. It is rare that an English player can move the ball in midfield instinctively and constructively , without having to take an extra touch and/or lift their head before passing (watch Henderson for example who always has to look up before placing a pass). Winks is one of these players and for this reason is someone to place high hopes in.
Actually didn't see the international games, will take your word for it, with the caveat of doubts re quality of football in internationals at times.
As I said, and maybe I just need to focus on Winks more (only get to a couple of games a year, often easier to see what a player brings at ground vs. tv), I agree he's a different player to our other midfielders, just want/haven't seen a game where I felt he ran the show.
Just cautious about him at this point, potential is there, composure is there (agree @supie re rare for classic English players), but there -> truly exceptional is still a journey for him.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Truly exceptional is world class I assume?
Ughhh .. can we settle for top PL level?
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Maybe but there could be an argument he is there already bt starting for us
Ahh .. but he doesn't, to me he's a quality part of the squad, but doesn't get into first 11 with everyone fit.
And perhaps that's the next step for him, getting himself in first 11 with a fully fit team.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Fair comment
Could be argued he could start for a side that doesn't have our strength in depth there though
We will see how many games he plays this season as a good marker
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
He has been dominant, but against smaller teams than Liverpool. Was dominant against APOEL for example.
He has around 10 first team starts Iain his career. Asking for domination against a team like Liverpool is a huge (somewhat ridiculous) standard to judge him by at this point.
He has to improve to fulfill his potential, obviously. Just as obviously he's not yet anywhere near the level we hope he'll be at in 3-4 years. But the signs so far are very good.
If he's only good for us, in our system, under Pochettino that's a non issue for me as long as we still have Pochettino here.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
On him keeping it simple.
Remember we were ahead from very early on in the Liverpool game and obviously were happy with a draw against Madrid. So both those games we played in conditions were the current result favoured us almost all game.
The Salah goal demonstrated how quickly a loss of possession in midfield can turn into a chance and a goal the other way.
I would argue Winks did the right thing from a game management point of view keeping the majority of his passes safe, particular when there was no obvious attacking pass there to be played.
He has shown in the past that he's more than capable of playing decisive attacking passes when needed and the pass is on. Like he did against Real for example. And like he's done in games in the past when we've been the ones unhappy with the current result.
Was he nervous? Maybe. Was he so focused on getting the defensive things right playing a new role that it harmed his attacking play? Perhaps. Does it indicate a lack of ability that will hurt us in other game conditions? That's the question... I don't think so.
Remember we were ahead from very early on in the Liverpool game and obviously were happy with a draw against Madrid. So both those games we played in conditions were the current result favoured us almost all game.
The Salah goal demonstrated how quickly a loss of possession in midfield can turn into a chance and a goal the other way.
I would argue Winks did the right thing from a game management point of view keeping the majority of his passes safe, particular when there was no obvious attacking pass there to be played.
He has shown in the past that he's more than capable of playing decisive attacking passes when needed and the pass is on. Like he did against Real for example. And like he's done in games in the past when we've been the ones unhappy with the current result.
Was he nervous? Maybe. Was he so focused on getting the defensive things right playing a new role that it harmed his attacking play? Perhaps. Does it indicate a lack of ability that will hurt us in other game conditions? That's the question... I don't think so.
Rorschach
Ricky Villa
Spot on.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I do think he's being a bit over hyped by the press, less so by us. I think most fans just keep quiet and express how good he is doing for his age.
The pundits at times can be a bit cringeworthy when picking stuff out that really doesn't need discussing. This however is normal because Southgate gave him a shot and he is an unknown to everyone bar us.
The pundits at times can be a bit cringeworthy when picking stuff out that really doesn't need discussing. This however is normal because Southgate gave him a shot and he is an unknown to everyone bar us.