Harry Winks

[awesome dawson]

Rose, Trippier, Winks, Dier, Alli, Kane, Barkley - All have a great chance of making the plane to Russia

 

[awesome dawson]

https://twitter.com/x/status/917079196081491968

https://twitter.com/x/status/917077322888613888

https://twitter.com/x/status/917101769154494469

https://twitter.com/x/status/917096191929745413

How old is that photo? They look like kids. Younger kids.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Rose, Trippier, Winks, Dier, Alli, Kane, Barkley - All have a great chance of making the plane to Russia

Interesting you mention Barkley

He is a player whose value is going up now for to how bad his team is doing without him... and his national side so crying out for a player like him (que the arguments against)

 

[braineclipse]

It was a decent enough debut, good for his confidence and progress.

Even more impressive for a player that's only a couple games into his season after injury issues.

I only watched the last half an hour, but I thought Winks looked good.

Interesting you mention Barkley

He is a player whose value is going up now for to how bad his team is doing without him... and his national aide skncrying out for a player like him (que the arguments against)

That's not how you spell Lukaku at all...

I can't understand anyone wanting him in the national team without even playing for Everton first. He was inconsistent enough when he was playing regularly.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Even more impressive for a player that's only a couple games into his season after injury issues.

I only watched the last half an hour, but I thought Winks looked good.


That's not how you spell Lukaku at all...

I can't understand anyone wanting him in the national team without even playing for Everton first. He was inconsistent enough when he was playing regularly.

But their not creating anything... Lukaku would struggle with no service. And whilst I agree about the inconsistent bit his style and play is miles more creative than someone like Henderson

 

[braineclipse]

But their not creating anything... Lukaku would struggle with no service. And whilst I agree about the inconsistent bit his style and play is miles more creative than someone like Henderson

A complete forward (big, strong, quick, good finisher) like Lukaku changes so much for a team and how they set up. He helps others around him be creative, he creates space, and he is a target for the creativity. Huge difference, particularly as they didn't find anyone with even a similar skill set to bring in.

Barkley has only very rarely played the role Henderson plays. He might develop into that deeper midfielder, but he's certainly not doing that not even playing at Everton.

You want a more creative alternative to Henderson to partner Dier deep in midfield look no further than Harry Winks. Looks a better prospect and is actually on the track developing in that role.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I only watched the last half an hour, but I thought Winks looked good.

It was your typical Winks (modric light) performance really. I like him.

 

[Gutter Boy]

There are degrees of difficulty with passes . Winks as other English midfielders does played lots of square and forward passes to a player straight in front or to the side of him. Nothing wrong with that ; it is football. But it has a pretty low degree of difficulty . It is playing football in straight lines . England have and have had lots of players who just do that.

We are more in need of someone like Lamela - who can spot a pass and deliver it with perfect weight. Winks is decent and will hopeful keep improving - but this ridiculous hype is not doing him or us any favours . Especially if it stops us buying [ the greater potential ] IMO Barkley .

Other than Carrick, who was criminally underused, England haven't really had a progressive passer since Hoddle (who was also criminally underused). Winks brings something very different to the table (especially in a formation with two CMs/alongside Dier).

Being able to move the ball quickly and accurately when an opponent is sitting off us and not trying to compete against us playing at 100mph is where England always fall down. It's possession football that we've not been able to do since the 1996-1998 sides.

 

[braineclipse]

It was your typical Winks (modric light) performance really. I like him.

Looked good from what I saw too. A couple errors where he should have done better, but match fitness should get rid of some of those.

Overall good decision making I thought. Good passes, kept the ball moving, but not a ton of fluidity or movement around him to help him find the more incisive passes.

Not great opposition of course. But another good performance from him and he's getting back to where he was last season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A complete forward (big, strong, quick, good finisher) like Lukaku changes so much for a team and how they set up. He helps others around him be creative, he creates space, and he is a target for the creativity. Huge difference, particularly as they didn't find anyone with even a similar skill set to bring in.

Barkley has only very rarely played the role Henderson plays. He might develop into that deeper midfielder, but he's certainly not doing that not even playing at Everton.

You want a more creative alternative to Henderson to partner Dier deep in midfield look no further than Harry Winks. Looks a better prospect and is actually on the track developing in that role.

I like winks and would play winks and Dier for England

But I think Barkley when fit plays exactly the way England need players too. He plays risky football but can penetrate the opposition who sit back. He also won’t pussy foot around playing safe

 

[Gutter Boy]

I like winks and would play winks and Dier for England

But I think Barkley when fit plays exactly the way England need players too. He plays risky football but can penetrate the opposition who sit back. He also won’t pussy foot around playing safe

Would you play Barkley instead of Alli though, because that's the role he does?

With Winks now as the deeper sitting ballplayer given quicker transitions, the thing England lack offensively is an Eriksen. Lallana is the best there is at the time being, but he's not international class.

Watching England is so frustrating, because it's half our great side, and half embarrassingly bad Lloris/Alder/Verts/Eriksen/Son substitutes.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Would you play Barkley instead of Alli though, because that's the role he does?

With Winks now as the deeper sitting ballplayer given quicker transitions, the thing England lack offensively is an Eriksen. Lallana is the best there is at the time being, but he's not international class.

Watching England is so frustrating, because it's half our great side, and half embarrassingly bad Lloris/Alder/Verts/Eriksen/Son substitutes.

I think it could an interesting choice to have for both England and Spurs. I think there will be games when you could choose one or the other depending on if you want someone to run at players perhaps forcing the defence back if they are high (imo Barkley) or whether you want the possibility of neat tricky skills in tight and/or one-tows in tight spaces (imo Alli). I think there may be games for both.
Good options to have imo

 

[glorygloryeze]

As tonight showed , getting picked for England does not mean you are a top PL player. There was similar and varying hype about midfielders Mason, Carrol, Bentaleb, Townsend, Huddlestone [ remember him the new Hoddle ] and Livermore.

England are boring turgid dirge , getting picked in that midfield is nothing to get excited about. Livermore still gets picked.

The bar is very low - countless square passes is the new creativity.

Surely Winks and Barkley are two different types of players, no? I think their skillsets could very easily dovetail each other, so for me it's not a either/or situation.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it could an interesting choice to have for both England and Spurs. I think there will be games when you could choose one or the other depending on if you want someone to run at players perhaps forcing the defence back if they are high (imo Barkley) or whether you want the possibility of neat tricky skills in tight and/or one-tows in tight spaces (imo Alli). I think there may be games for both.
Good options to have imo

There's such a long way for Barkley to be picked ahead of Alli in any game.

I like winks and would play winks and Dier for England

But I think Barkley when fit plays exactly the way England need players too. He plays risky football but can penetrate the opposition who sit back. He also won’t pussy foot around playing safe

In the central deeper role Winks plays you need a very high success rate with your involvements. This is part of what Barkley would have to adapt to if playing deeper in that role. Higher up the pitch he can some damage, but so can many players.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Would you play Barkley instead of Alli though, because that's the role he does?

With Winks now as the deeper sitting ballplayer given quicker transitions, the thing England lack offensively is an Eriksen. Lallana is the best there is at the time being, but he's not international class.

Watching England is so frustrating, because it's half our great side, and half embarrassingly bad Lloris/Alder/Verts/Eriksen/Son substitutes.

Id play Dier with Winks and have Lallana, Barkley, Alli all in front behind Kane. Were too predictable with Sterling running into blind players, ashford doing clever stuff but not passing it, Ox just playing the ball out of play... Sturbridge too greedy and Sellback always injured.

Lallana will get murdered playing centre mid at international level IMO against a decent side and has to be played in a more attacking role.

I like Barkley as he has variety and a spark which were sorely missing

Alli and Kane pick themselves for me

The width comes from the full backs which have to be walk and rose as we need that pace and drive

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There's such a long way for Barkley to be picked ahead of Alli in any game.



In the central deeper role Winks plays you need a very high success rate with your involvements. This is part of what Barkley would have to adapt to if playing deeper in that role. Higher up the pitch he can some damage, but so can many players.

I wouldn't play Barkley deeper though, id play him higher up. And no one in the engaged side current does any damage there IMo. Their all blunt and bland and safe

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Surely Winks and Barkley are two different types of players, no? I think their skillsets could very easily dovetail each other, so for me it's not a either/or situation.

Very different players. One is a metronome who keeps everything ticking over (something were appalling at as an international side)

The other is an inconstant but creative player who does stuff off the cuff (hence the likeness to Gazza although not a patch on him).

Both could have roles in the England team if we were brave enough

If we sign Barkley I fully expect him to get a chance back with England

 

[Gutter Boy]

Id play Dier with Winks and have Lallana, Barkley, Alli all in front behind Kane. Were too predictable with Sterling running into blind players, ashford doing clever stuff but not passing it, Ox just playing the ball out of play... Sturbridge too greedy and Sellback always injured.

Lallana will get murdered playing centre mid at international level IMO against a decent side and has to be played in a more attacking role.

I like Barkley as he has variety and a spark which were sorely missing

Alli and Kane pick themselves for me

The width comes from the full backs which have to be walk and rose as we need that pace and drive

I'd go Lallana, Alli and Rashford myself. That's as close as possible to Eriksen, Alli and Son.

Not in style (Alli is more intelligent and passes more, Barkley is physical and runs with the ball more), but I don't think you can play Alli and Barkley together - they operate in the same area and perform the same role. It's Lampard and Gerrard again (although more accurately Alli is a Scholes).

 

[braineclipse]

I wouldn't play Barkley deeper though, id play him higher up. And no one in the engaged side current does any damage there IMo. Their all blunt and bland and safe

Either a "front 3" or a "front 4".

Kane and Alli are 100% locked in. That leaves one or two positions. Last night Rashford, Lingaard and Sturridge got game time. There's also Stirling, Lallana, Defoe, Chamberlain, Vardy, Walcott and a good handful more. On current ability and form I really don't see how Barkley stands out. And he's primarily a #10, and that's Alli's role. And he hasn't played a game in months.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'd go Lallana, Alli and Rashford myself. That's as close as possible to Eriksen, Alli and Son.

Not in style (Alli is more intelligent and passes more, Barkley is physical and runs with the ball more), but I don't think you can play Alli and Barkley together - they operate in the same area and perform the same role. It's Lampard and Gerrard again (although more accurately Alli is a Scholes).

Im sure they could both play together. I have no qualms playing Rashford but he needs to learn to play with his head up. The talent is there but his decision making is gash