Harry Winks

[NaijaSpurs]

Never heard of a deep lying playmaker? He should be providing the base for invention by kicking it off. Which he never fudging does.

Maybe because he is too busy trying to protect the back four because we do not have a fukking proper defensive midfielder on the pitch.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

We've stopped leaking goals for fun with Winks next to Eriksen or Lo Celso in central midfield. Our back four must be amazing if Winks is as poor defensively as some seem to be saying.

But that is the fukking point mate He is not a proper defensive midfielder but he is trying his absolute best in that role so we cannot expect to be the one defensive midfielder and at the same time be the creative force when you have Lo Celso, Lamela, Dele, Moura and Son on the fukking pitch. The lad did good yesterday

 

[nayenezgani]

Maybe because he is too busy trying to protect the back four because we do not have a fukking proper defensive midfielder on the pitch.

But he doesn't offer protection, does he? He's pointless.

 

[monkeybarry]

I. As we do not have Messi I would not build a team around any of our players
II. I do not think he is limited, I just think our midfield is limited because he has to play as the most defensive midfielder in the team. It is like saying Son plays on the left but then judging him when he plays as a left wing back in a semi final against Chelsea and then slag him off as many people did after that match.
III. I find this question tedious

So your answer to III compared I & II are what I find interesting.
He regularly seems to "not quite deliver" irrespective of who is playing around him. And including when he hasn't played as the most defensive player in the team. That's what I don't get.
He clearly has a very good technical ability. But I'm not convinced that translates into a good footballer at the highest level outside of very narrow parameters (ie how he plays for England).

And maybe it is a system and/or teammates around him thing. But he has very good and experienced teammates. So maybe he is only capable of complimenting superstars? (Although he's hardly pulled up any trees).
If so - then the conclusion is we must build a team around him? Which seems unrealistic.

I genuinely don't see a future solution in our team that involves Winks.
I may be underestimating him,but I think his level is Burnley.

 

[nayenezgani]

So your answer to III compared I & II are what I find interesting.
He regularly seems to "not quite deliver" irrespective of who is playing around him. And including when he hasn't played as the most defensive player in the team. That's what I don't get.
He clearly has a very good technical ability. But I'm not convinced that translates into a good footballer at the highest level outside of very narrow parameters (ie how he plays for England).

And maybe it is a system and/or teammates around him thing. But he has very good and experienced teammates. So maybe he is only capable of complimenting superstars? (Although he's hardly pulled up any trees).
If so - then the conclusion is we must build a team around him? Which seems unrealistic.

I genuinely don't see a future solution in our team that involves Winks.
I may be underestimating him,but I think his level is Burnley.

This. And I think you're being generous actually.

 

[Yiddo]

I want the Winks that dominated Barcelona before he got injured. He was really looking like a top player but has not been the same since.

 

[Cochise]

@nayenezgani for me Winks is a functional cog in the midfield and nothing more. He sits in front of the back line, but he's neither Scott Parker snapping at players heels nor Wanyama reading the game and then using his physical presence to win back the ball. He's not a dictator of play like Pirlo for instance either, although yesterday he spread play well and made a couple of very nice diagonals to send our forwards away.

With all that said, I'm not 100% sure we can say that Jose wants a DM, CM and #10. There are a few midfields across the league and in Europe that are playing multifunctional trio's and whilst I'd not say Winks is a first choice starter in there, he can do a bit of everything. His strength comes in making options for our back line, but I won't berate him for not creating enough when our front line are static and bunched up.

 

[glasgowspur]

I want the Winks that dominated Barcelona before he got injured. He was really looking like a top player but has not been the same since.

In my humble opinion at our our peak we had five, maybe six really good players with determination and a will to win playing in a system that allowed lesser players to shine.
We've lost some of those players, some have regressed and some have lost their mojo, all of which have contributed to screwing up the system making the lesser players vulnerable.

 

[parklane1]

I thought he was ok yesterday and some of the criticism is harsh ( imo), he is playing a position which he really is not suited too and that does not help him.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

My point is this... he doesn't score. How many has he got, just the one against West ham... see I remember it. He doesn't break up play, he doesn't create. I'm at a loss to see what this guy brings. Oh I see, he runs around a lot, now where have i heard that before? Lol.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

My point is this... he doesn't score. How many has he got, just the one against West ham... see I remember it. He doesn't break up play, he doesn't create. I'm at a loss to see what this guy brings. Oh I see, he runs around a lot, now where have i heard that before? Lol.

He scored vs Fulham too
He passes the ball to keep it moving (which conversely isn’t now less of an issue with Lo Celso there) and keep possession which is something propel believe is important (I’m not in that mindset anymore)

 

[Bishop]

He scored vs Fulham too
He passes the ball to keep it moving (which conversely isn’t now less of an issue with Lo Celso there) and keep possession which is something propel believe is important (I’m not in that mindset anymore)

Good possession is important and that can be holding the ball for extended periods ala prime Barca or quicker shorter bursts as Mou's Real Madrid were very apt to do.

At the moment I don't really see good possession from Winks, he slows it down which isn't inherently a bad thing but he then isn't able to reset any tempo. To often it's slow, slow, slow backwards and sideways.

I want him to work as I do remember when he got his first starts in the team but his playing mentality doesn't seem to suit as a positional player. That role just doesn't seem to bring out the best in him imo. I'd rather he compete for the Ndombele role as we might get that freerer thinking Winks playing again.

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[Finney Is Back]

I thought he was ok yesterday and some of the criticism is harsh ( imo), he is playing a position which he really is not suited too and that does not help him.

Indeed and he is only playing there because the two specialist players we have in the first team squad for that position are clearly no longer up to it and the youth team graduate for that position is over at QPR on loan. Bring in a proper defensive minded midfielder and it allows us to sell Dier (no point in keeping him as he doesn't even count as an association trained player). It would also give us the option of generating some funds by selling Winks.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Good possession is important and that can be holding the ball for extended periods ala prime Barca or quicker shorter bursts as Mou's Real Madrid were very apt to do.

At the moment I don't really see good possession from Winks, he slows it down which isn't inherently a bad thing but he then isn't able to reset any tempo. To often it's slow, slow, slow backwards and sideways.

I want him to work as I do remember when he got his first starts in the team but his playing meteorology doesn't seem to suit as a positional player. That role just doesn't seem to bring out the best in him imo. I'd rather he compete for the Ndombele role as we might get that freerer thinking Winks playing again.

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The backwards and sideways passing is a myth though. His passing maps show that. I’d wager he passes longer and more forward than anyone in the team other than maybe the CBs. And we didn’t pass slowly on Saturday IMO. We passed well actually which is why we kept a lot of possession against a well drilled side who packed the midfield
But I agree he shouldn’t be playing DM. Saying that do we want a DM anymore. I’m not sure TBH
To me we need a DM, a passer and a runner in a 4-3-3

 

[Bishop]

The backwards and sideways passing is a myth though. His passing maps show that. I’d wager he passes longer and more forward than anyone in the team other than maybe the CBs. And we didn’t pass slowly on Saturday IMO. We passed well actually which is why we kept a lot of possession against a well drilled side who packed the midfield
But I agree he shouldn’t be playing DM. Saying that do we want a DM anymore. I’m not sure TBH
To me we need a DM, a passer and a runner in a 4-3-3

For me the passing sideways issue isn't just literally the direction of the pass but also the timing. If the opposition are already set in their defensive shape then that forward pass doesn't have the same weight as one that really disrupts their shape and puts them on the back foot. Winks doesn't play enough of those type of passes he is very safe which I understand it's due to where he's playing but that safety just kills the momentum at times and rarely starts us going.

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[Bedfordspurs]

For me the passing sideways issue isn't just literally the direction of the pass but also the timing. If the opposition are already set in their defensive shape then that forward pass doesn't have the same weight as one that really disrupts their shape and puts them on the back foot. Winks doesn't play enough of those type of passes he is very safe which I understand it's due to where he's playing but that safety just kills the momentum at times and rarely starts us going.

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Doesn’t a lot of that come form when he receives it though
He rarely gets the ball when we’re on the attack. It’s nearly always after we have defended and it’s from one of our defenders so the opposition are generally set up to defend already. The idea is that the passing around the back will entice the opposition to lose that defensive set up

 

[Bishop]

Doesn’t a lot of that come form when he receives it though
He rarely gets the ball when we’re on the attack. It’s nearly always after we have defended and it’s from one of our defenders so the opposition are generally set up to defend already. The idea is that the passing around the back will entice the opposition to lose that defensive set up

I do agree that it is all about his position of when he receives the ball, he's usually fairly deep and often being pressed or at least has opposition players in his vicinity so I total understand his passing choices. It's just biased slightly too far to being safe, there are to many times he takes the safer option of popping it back to whoever is playing at the back even when that isn't the best option.

If we can get him away from the DM role there is still a player there.

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[Bedfordspurs]

I do agree that it is all about his position of when he receives the ball, he's usually fairly deep and often being pressed or at least has opposition players in his vicinity so I total understand his passing choices. It's just biased slightly too far to being safe, there are to many times he takes the safer option of popping it back to whoever is playing at the back even when that isn't the best option.

If we can get him away from the DM role there is still a player there.

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I genuinely,y believe that the safe passing option is part of the way we play
You do that a few times then try the clever pass
If we’re always taking risks we run the risks of getting caught
Also it’s very rare to have a midfielder based at the deepest point taking the risky passes. I can’t think of anyone other than Pirlo who does/did that

 

[SteveAWOL]

The backwards and sideways passing is a myth though. His passing maps show that. I’d wager he passes longer and more forward than anyone in the team other than maybe the CBs. And we didn’t pass slowly on Saturday IMO. We passed well actually which is why we kept a lot of possession against a well drilled side who packed the midfield
But I agree he shouldn’t be playing DM. Saying that do we want a DM anymore. I’m not sure TBH
To me we need a DM, a passer and a runner in a 4-3-3

FWIW...

 

[Modric THFC]

A passer in midfield is only as good as his passing options.
If there is nothing on there is nothing he can do except go backwards.
Are there the players running off the ball making options or are they waiting for it to go back to the keeper or centre halfs to contest a long ball.
People are talking about the Barca game etc. In those games the opposition was open. He had space to space into.
But in the premier league against Watford and the like they are playing compact offering us nothing.

There's an argument for playing him in certain games. There's an argument for playing him if we want to play a certain way. He'd thrive in the Emirates Marketing Project midfield with players running off him for example. But it's a waste of time playing him in this team with the style we currently play.