Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[The Moonlit Knight]

Ignoring us being spurs for a second, what about 17th to 18th? Seems like that can be amazingly fantastic to a disaster for a lot of clubs.

Still applies. 17th wouldn't be a fantastically great result. It would be an acceptable performance. A team that should be battling relegation but ended up 13th would be an amazingly fantastic result.

 

[Superted]

There lies the problem. Our fans have this massive over inflated ego based on 3 years of excellent performances. Finishing top six for Spurs next season is a good result. Finishing top four (3 times in 4 years?!) would be fudging amazing! We're punching way above our weight and really have no right to be top four.

It's actually one of the reasons why maybe it is best Redknapp should go. If he leaves now he can leave with us finished 4th. The chances of us getting top four next year are so slim they're practically anorexic, regardless of who the Manager is. We've had a great three seasons punching above our weight but it simply can't last. It's possible next year we may be able to punch above our weight again, but realistically the last three seasons have been an amazing achievement and it's unlikely to continue next season.

What's the fun in that? I kind of agree with you (sort of), but I think we have a squad that has us punching above our weight, and I'd rather try to keep punching above our weight as much as possible. Because there's always going to be teams that do better than they "should" and others that do worse. I'd rather be one of those that does better.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

What's the fun in that? I kind of agree with you (sort of), but I think we have a squad that has us punching above our weight, and I'd rather try to keep punching above our weight as much as possible. Because there's always going to be teams that do better than they "should" and others that do worse. I'd rather be one of those that does better.

If we keep the midfield and VDV then next year we have a good chance of being 5th or above next year. But Chelsea and Liverpool can't be as bad as last season surely? I think City, Utd and Chelsea should be well clear of us. Arsenal should be too in truth, but they're not. If they lose RvP then we definitely have a chance of overhauling them, but we're as reliant on them underperforming as much as we are relying on ourselves to perform.

This is the realism of the situation. Take away all the romance, the passion and look a the cold hard facts and those facts are simply we are punching above our weight and I can't believe that so many fans are unhappy with us finishing 4th twice in three seasons.

 

[Naughton16]

As mentioned on here before 5th (or 4th in our case) has become the new relegation. Financially we might as well have finished 15th the last couple of seasons when CL clubs are now raking in an extra ?ú80m above what we're getting.

Also I think it's a bit false for people to keep saying we're punching well above our weight. Under Redknapp our wage bill has gone from 50% to closer to 80% of Arsenals. So not unreasonable to expect a challenge for CL. When you factor in net transfer spend and wages then obviously Arsenal are much better value.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

As mentioned on here before 5th (or 4th in our case) has become the new relegation. Financially we might as well have finished 15th the last couple of seasons when CL clubs are now raking in an extra ?ú80m above what we're getting.

Also I think it's a bit false for people to keep saying we're punching well above our weight. Under Redknapp our wage bill has gone from 50% to closer to 80% of Arsenals. So not unreasonable to expect a challenge for CL. When you factor in net transfer spend and wages then obviously Arsenal are much better value.

a) We have less revenue
b) We aren't sugar daddied
c) First team investment in the last 3 seasons has been minimal. Why? Because we have to SELL players before we can buy.

Take a look at the FACTS and figures regarding revenue, fan bases etc. We should be 6th. Anything more is us punching above our weight whether we like to admit that or not.

 

[Superted]

Not unhappy with the results (well, a bit peeved at this seasons in the context of how far we were in front in January), just not confident for the future.

 

[Wriggly]

4-5-4

 

[southstand1882]

.

we was 3rdz

 

[harr1984]

a) We have less revenue
b) We aren't sugar daddied
c) First team investment in the last 3 seasons has been minimal. Why? Because we have to SELL players before we can buy.

Take a look at the FACTS and figures regarding revenue, fan bases etc. We should be 6th. Anything more is us punching above our weight whether we like to admit that or not.

I'm honestly not sure that's the case mate. Redknapp said he thought we had Mata until Chelsea stepped in and he would have cost a fair bit. We were bidding around ?ú30m for Rossi and others on deadline day the other year. I think it's more a case of our wage structure being the problem. In all areas we have at the least players of an above average level, so in order to improve these positions it requires the top class players. Whilst we make bids and are consistently in for these guys we constantly lose out because we won't pay the wages and that's why we aren't spending because it's a bit of a catch 22 situation we're in that at some point will need to be addressed.....

 

[Superted]

I assume by you saying we should finish 6th, then you mean we're the 6th best team, ergo we should beat the 14 teams worse than us twice.

28 wins x 3 points = 84 points = 3rd place.

Having less resources than Emirates Marketing Project and United does not affect our ability to beat Norwich. We can lose to all the teams that are "better" than us and still achieve.

 

[africanspurs]

I'd be surprised if a new guy had as many great players in the squad...sadly

mate, it sounds like a ready made excuse if the scenario ever came up.

before redknapp came people didnt rate lennon anymore
they thought bale was a dud and didnt blink when he was sat on the bench
modric was considered by a vocal few to be overhyped
thudd was on the chopping block
it was a big mess

a good manager has done his thing and gotten these players to play to a good level

i also pray now that this new super hero of a manager has all the pieces (ade aside) that harry has....and i still think he wont do better than harry has done.

i am waiting for the next excuse from somebody as to why they want to risk putting our development BACK just to dive into a grass is greener unknown.

funny thing is that continuity brought us success last season and when that continuity was ruffled (i.e england calling) we played badly. the wise move from those that dont want harry? would be to butcher the continuity totally and risk unhappy players and uncertain transfer targets .

No thanks

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I'm honestly not sure that's the case mate. Redknapp said he thought we had Mata until Chelsea stepped in and he would have cost a fair bit. We were bidding around ?ú30m for Rossi and others on deadline day the other year. I think it's more a case of our wage structure being the problem. In all areas we have at the least players of an above average level, so in order to improve these positions it requires the top class players. Whilst we make bids and are consistently in for these guys we constantly lose out because we won't pay the wages and that's why we aren't spending because it's a bit of a catch 22 situation we're in that at some point will need to be addressed.....

I wouldn't be at all shocked if us going for this big money signings is a clever way to create an illusion that we are in the big game. Make a ?ú30m bid for a player, even though you don't really have the money, knowing full well that you can't get the player. Keeps existing players (and fans) happy that the club demonstrates ambition, without really risking anything.

 

[harr1984]

I assume by you saying we should finish 6th, then you mean we're the 6th best team, ergo we should beat the 14 teams worse than us twice.

28 wins x 3 points = 84 points = 3rd place.

Having less resources than Emirates Marketing Project and United does not affect our ability to beat Norwich. We can lose to all the teams that are "better" than us and still achieve.

What sort of logic is that?! So basically we can beat every team who on paper are inferior to us, lose to every team who are better than us and we achieve 3rd? So what about the 5 other teams who are better than us, don't they also beat every team inferior to them meaning we still finish 6th? Or does this special rule just conventiently apply to Spurs? Crazy.....

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

sounds like a ready made excuse.

before redknapp came people didnt rate lennon anymore
they thought bale was a dud and didnt blink when he was sat on the bench
modric was considered by a vocal few to be overhyped
thudd was on the chopping block
it was a big mess

a good manager has done his thing and gotten these players to play to a good level

i also pray now that this new super hero of a manager has all the pieces (ade aside) that harry has....and i still think he wont do better than harry has done.

i am waiting for the next excuse from somebody as to why they want to risk putting our development BACK just to dive into a grass is greener unknown.

funny thing is that continuity brought us success last season and when that continuity was ruffled (i.e england calling) we played badly. the wise move from those that dont want harry? would be to butcher the continuity totally and risk unhappy players and uncertain transfer targets .

No thanks

If a new manager comes in, especially one that the Redknapp rebels want to replace Redknapp with, and flops you already know what they'll say. It was Redknapp's fault for leaving behind a disjointed, ageing squad etc.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I assume by you saying we should finish 6th, then you mean we're the 6th best team, ergo we should beat the 14 teams worse than us twice.

28 wins x 3 points = 84 points = 3rd place.

Having less resources than Emirates Marketing Project and United does not affect our ability to beat Norwich. We can lose to all the teams that are "better" than us and still achieve.

Football simply doesn't work that way (thankfully or no team would ever punch above its weight and it would all be rather boring).

Also it wouldn't be 28 wins x 3 points. I would say that a standard result pattern should be that any team finishing 6th would deem an away draw against any team finishing 7th to 10th as a very good result for example.

 

[Superted]

funny thing is that continuity brought us success last season and when that continuity was ruffled (i.e england calling) we played badly. the wise move from those that dont want harry? would be to butcher the continuity totally and risk unhappy players and uncertain transfer targets .

No thanks

Ah see, there's the problem right there. You think it's all gone back to normal. It clearly hasn't. Once bitten, twice shy. If your missus had eyes for another bloke, much to the point she wouldn't attend to you and cook you eggs for months on end, because she's over you and wants this other bloke, but then that bloke hooks up with someone else, you think your relationship would be the same? I don't forgive that easily. I'd go and find me a woman who likes me for me. And has bigger tits.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Well he didn't this season. That's the fact. And we were in a position to do it until he ballsed it up at the end. Recent experience > more distant experience. He's getting older. Is he the man? It's a serious question. I don't want us to fall back and have to bring a new manager in to clean up a mess. Why not step in before the mess eventuates, look for the signals. I think the signals are arguably there.

ok, so you got a guarantee that a new manager will do better than the best manager we've had in ages? cool, where do we sign?

 

[africanspurs]

Look I keep saying I'm going to stop posting on these threads as the arguments keep going around the same circles but I'm a sad Spurs supporter who can't resist it! I don't think it matters where we were before Harry it is ridiculous to keep harping back to that.To quote African I don't think thatargument retains/holds much water there are just too many variables. What matters is where we are now in the context of other teams. The key argument for me but clearly not those supporting Harry is over the last 2 seasons have we had a team good enough to qualify for the Champions League - the answer, when we have a midfield of Parker, Lennon Bale, Sandro, Modric and VDV with Adebayor and Defoe up front must be yes. Have we failed - the answer is yes. TBH I think Harry's second season CL qualification may have been an overachievement in the context of our squad compared to the others. But the next 2 imho have been failures. Levy has invested big time in our squad and CL is everything Harry must be aware of that. I won't bother with the other points about HR himself which annoy me and make me want him to leaveas they've been said already.

you've highlighted personnel as the key variable with the highest significance as to why Harry has failed. You've not touched on quite a few

teams in the premiership being tactically more astute
form
confidence
the managers of other team in particular those from the top 6 or 7.
A playing system that levels out the playing field
the england call up
the court case
The man's health
Bad decisions from refs
Bad luck

if you dont want to care about where we were previous to this year of getting 4th (not sure about you, but fact of the matter is i thought getting 4th would have been a tall order anyway...you probably foresaw us being title contenders and racking up the points? i didnt)....at the very least consider the same for other teams in the league which adds to the level of difficulty in playing in the premiership. simply having the name players isnt enough,

and chelsea had a better squad than ours and arsenal a better system

 

[africanspurs]

4-5-4

:ross:

 

[Superted]

Football simply doesn't work that way (thankfully or no team would ever punch above its weight and it would all be rather boring).

Also it wouldn't be 28 wins x 3 points. I would say that a standard result pattern should be that any team finishing 6th would deem an away draw against any team finishing 7th to 10th as a very good result for example.

As would a home draw against teams 2 - 5 be acceptable not a loss, but that's beside the point. The point is (please try to keep up harr1984) that the league position you finish is not dictated by your standing against the teams better than you. More often than not, you can be clearly an inferior team and still finish higher, just because you are more consistent and get the results you are supposed to get against lesser teams.

I would quite happily lose both games to Chelsea, Man U, City and Arsenal next season if it meant we won the league. I remember Mark Viduka made a comment once that he doesn't care if he lost every game, as long as he won the league. People laughed, but it was actually a very clever point. He's a wise man.