Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[southstand1882]

Disagree completely

Reminds me of a semi-abusive relationship of living in fear and always thinking 'there wouldn't be anyone for me if I leave her now'

We have some extremely talented players in our squad as much as some doom-mongers like to bang otherwise. With a few intelligent additions/imrpovements in the summer we can really push on the next level and establish some consistency. As much as our financial muscle is dwarfed in comparison to other PL clubs - results are decided on the field of play and we have proven to able to compete with anyone lately.

To say Arry is the absolute ceiling of a manager for us the moment and he is extracting the absolute optimal performance from the squad is not true in the slightest, imv - i.e. rubbish, sorry

What is a semi-abusive relationship?

Non physical violence?

 

[billyiddo]

It's done to make a point, no one seems to want to acknowledge that appointing ANY manager at a club the size of Tottenham/Pool/etc. is potentially a 100M-200M decision, that's a lot of fudging risk, and the super casual "well why not take a chance, he could be the real deal" just ignores that completely.

And when you look at the requirements for job experience, it just looks worse

- Ever managed a top 4 side?
- Ever competed in Europe?
- Ever won a trophy?
- Ever bought a single player over 10M?
- Ever managed a players like VDV/Ade/Modric
- Ever dealt with a fan atmosphere of overblown expectations?

That's why experienced managers, even those with flaws get jobs before Martinez/Rodgers, when someone's resume ticks none, or one of those boxes, it begins to look like (as the person making the hiring decision, hope is your strategy)

big clubs abroad don't seem to have the hang up that we do on appointing 'proven mangers' - look at the fella at Juventus this season as a perfect example - would be a NO to everything you asked above yet he has just guided them to their first title in years, undefeated as well. we put too much stock in what a manager has achieved in terms of titles/trophies IMO, there are plenty of people out there who can do the job at a top club but never get the chance because no one want to take the risk.

looking at the Juve coach again - i bet everyone here would jump at the chance to have him this summer (or if redknapp left) well go and have a look at his CV on wikipedia and tell me if you would have touched him with a barge pole one year ago ? the people in charge at Juventus obviously saw something in the way he manages/coaches his sides and thought he would transfer those skills to their club - no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same thing if we see an 'unproven' manager who has shown the qualities that we want.

 

[1882]

IF all goes 'to plan' tomorrow night (our plan, not anyone else's) then Redknapp would have led us to the CL (Qualifiers, granted) TWICE in 3 years... no seeing as NO OTHER manager did that with us in the Competition's history, that's none too shabby!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

big clubs abroad don't seem to have the hang up that we do on appointing 'proven mangers' - look at the fella at Juventus this season as a perfect example - would be a NO to everything you asked above yet he has just guided them to their first title in years, undefeated as well. we put too much stock in what a manager has achieved in terms of titles/trophies IMO, there are plenty of people out there who can do the job at a top club but never get the chance because no one want to take the risk.

looking at the Juve coach again - i bet everyone here would jump at the chance to have him this summer (or if redknapp left) well go and have a look at his CV on wikipedia and tell me if you would have touched him with a barge pole one year ago ? the people in charge at Juventus obviously saw something in the way he manages/coaches his sides and thought he would transfer those skills to their club - no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same thing if we see an 'unproven' manager who has shown the qualities that we want.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Fundamentally I disagree, its a defeatist attitude.

Yes, absolutely, the stadium makes a tremendous difference. But its not the only way to succeed.

Buying players to suit a system gets more from the team as a whole, it need not be a squad of superstars.

Building a core playing style, and buying to suit it is good management. Keeping an eye on player succession, and buying players of potential (and realising that potential) is great management.

We might be poor by comparison to City/Utd/Chelsea, but we arent a poor club. We can afford quality players, both fees and wages, and with a top manager can certainly compete.

We werent far from competing for the title this season. We ran out of steam, but certainly showed the quality to compete in those positions.

We need to be smart, not rich.

We already are smart, that's why we went one direction and Villa went the other when we were both on the cusp of the top 4.

I think style can do well when you're a mid-table team and it gives you an edge over other comparatively average teams. I think if we were going to compete for the title as we are now, we would need this style to give us the edge. But I'm not really sure how likely it is to happen even then. When you get to the very top level the margins are finer and the quality is higher, I'm not sure how much the system is capable of giving us the edge against squads at the very top.

We aren't poor but we simply aren't as rich. And that means we will have a weaker squad. We could have a lucky season and have no injuries to our key players all season, and maybe title challenge, but it isn't likely. The reality is that we can't afford a squad to equip us for a title challenge as much as the other teams can. We can't afford to pay 15M and 60k a week for a back up winger for example. We do have to be smart, but we'd also have to be lucky.

When Arsenal rose up and established themselves, they didn't have the barrier of other clubs with much more money blocking them off. They only had Man United to contend with. Now, if we got a new manager to implement a new system, they have to have us rise up with perfect signings and implement a great system that gets us ahead of Man United, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, and Chelsea on a consistent basis. And they will all improve every summer, and all be trying their best to stay ahead of us. It's incredibly difficult, I'm not sure there's a manager on the planet that can make it happen for us like it happened for Wenger and Arsenal because the landscape is completely different now.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Disagree completely

Reminds me of a semi-abusive relationship of living in fear and always thinking 'there wouldn't be anyone for me if I leave her now'

We have some extremely talented players in our squad as much as some doom-mongers like to bang otherwise. With a few intelligent additions/imrpovements in the summer we can really push on the next level and establish some consistency. As much as our financial muscle is dwarfed in comparison to other PL clubs - results are decided on the field of play and we have proven to able to compete with anyone lately.

To say Arry is the absolute ceiling of a manager for us the moment and he is extracting the absolute optimal performance from the squad is not true in the slightest, imv - i.e. rubbish, sorry

Really answered a lot of this above. It's about being realistic. In terms of getting consistent top 6 finishes over a number of seasons, I think Harry can do it. In terms of getting consistent top 4 finishes over a number of seasons, with the stadium as it is, I don't think there's a manager alive that would deliver it. The competition is so strong. Harry has actually been top 5 for all his full seasons, and the top 4 for the majority of those times, so to find someone better than that, and get it done over many seasons...don't think that person exists to be honest.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Funny how people so often confuse pessimism with realism

 

[Jurgen the German]

What strikes me is nobody is considering Redknapp's stature in the game. Even Bastian Schweinsteiger said he was shocked Redknapp didn't get the England job, which obviously means he knows his stuff and is aware of the great job he's done with us. And to put it in perspective, he said he's never heard of Hodgson, or words to that effect. With endorsements like that from great players like Schweinsteiger, it's obvious that Redknapp has raised the profile of our club, no one can deny that.

 

[southstand1882]

Funny how people so often confuse pessimism with realism

Only the optimists make that mistake

 

[ArcspacE]

What strikes me is nobody is considering Redknapp's stature in the game. Even Bastian Schweinsteiger said he was shocked Redknapp didn't get the England job, which obviously means he knows his stuff and is aware of the great job he's done with us. And to put it in perspective, he said he's never heard of Hodgson, or words to that effect. With endorsements like that from great players like Schweinsteiger, it's obvious that Redknapp has raised the profile of our club, no one can deny that.

Agree by and large although it could have also been a case of Bastian looking at the PL Table and seeing our log position in relation to WBA and scratching his head

 

[africanspurs]

arent we one of the few clubs that arent totally broke and that are well run ? or is it better to mimic the barca's who appear to be in debt up to their follicles

 

[spasm]

These are largely philosophical issues to be considered. Teams that are fighting relegation often replace their managers, teams that are competing for top 4 spots do not. Do you replace a manager when the team is non-performing in order to improve or embark on the road rarely traveled; replace a manager when a team is performing well in order to perform even better?

In the larger context, due to our decades of mediocrity, our current achievements illustrate that we have made significant progress and there is valid sentiment that we should be grateful for where we are now. Conversely, at which point in time is it then acceptable to have higher expectations of the club? Do we give the Manager more time to build on the platform he created or consider the possibility that he is unable to take us to the next level?

 

[milo]

It's all academic now. As Redknapp hasn't gone this week, I doubt that he will be going this summer.

 

[Pirate55]

This is a serious question because I hate video games...what is Football Manager? How do you play it?

As for your comment about "loads of non-attending Spurs fans who don't appreciate good footballers or good football" there are equally loads who attend who appreciate good footballers and good football AND can also criticize managerial performance when it's justified. THIS is what gets me about the Harry debates; you're either pro or anti. It's NOT true! There is the very, very REAL truth that Harry has absolutely been found wanting sometimes, and if people cannot accept that, it does not make them any wiser or greater than people who claim it to be the case. In fact, IMHO, it makes them blind to the sorts of details which (if left unchecked) will forever keep us where we are and never see us perhaps become winners in the silver sense...

100% agree and couldnt have put it better myself. Also agree with you that praise from SAF just shows that he doesnt really consider us a threat to Manure.

 

[billyiddo]

It's all academic now. As Redknapp hasn't gone this week, I doubt that he will be going this summer.

i would say it could still be up in the air if Chelsea win tonight - i don't think he is going anywhere personally but there is still a chance Levy might think about a change should we miss out on CL football.

one thing which does concern me about Redknapp - let's say England did approach him instead of Hodgson and he left, for all the good he has done for us in the previous seasons i think it's fair to say he wouldn't have left us in too good a shape if he had left for England a few months back, arguably we would have missed out on (the possibility of) CL football and it would have been a much more difficult task to keep hold of Bale & Modric - take those two out of our squad and what are we left with ? a few talented players and a lot of ageing players who coming to the end of their career - Redknapp to me doesn't look beyond his contract when it comes to buying players, he goes for a quick fix and whilst he does a good job whilst he is here i find myself growing in concern about what is round the corner for the squad - this is one of the major reasons im always in favor of appointing someone with more long term thinking.

remember reading a great Martinez interview where he was talking about the importance in looking beyond his time at Wigan and laying the foundations for whoever comes in after him (whenever that might be) saying it was a managers responsibility to think not just in the now but what lays ahead - something i agree with and something i think Redknapp doesn't give a seconds thought to, tbh

 

[southstand1882]

remember reading a great Martinez interview where he was talking about the importance in looking beyond his time at Wigan and laying the foundations for whoever comes in after him (whenever that might be) saying it was a managers responsibility to think not just in the now but what lays ahead - something i agree with

Sounds amazing.

Can you let me know what Martinez has done?

 

[billyiddo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rview-Roberto-Martinez--man-shook-season.html

have a read

 

[southstand1882]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rview-Roberto-Martinez--man-shook-season.html

have a read

There's a quote from him about making Swansea the great club that they are, but very little else.

Have I missed something?

 

[southstand1882]

Other than playing a clever 3-4-3 and becoming a relegation battle specialist, what has Martinez delivered to Wigan?

Has he injected his first team with youth players?

Is he building an English spine and giving local players a chance?

Or has he built a team of Scottish rejects, spattered with some foreign stars (who will all be sold in the summer) leaving Wigan fudged, YET AGAIN?

How long are Moses, Rodallega and Di Santo likely to stick around?

All their young stars will be pillaged by the teams that don't spend 3/4 of the season in the bottom 3.

Let's take a look at the outfield players that Martinez and Redknapp fielded on the last day of the season:

WIGAN
Gary Caldwell (30)
Emmerson Boyce (32) ENG
Adrian Lopez (25)
Maynor Figueroa (29)
James McCarthy (21)
Shaun Maloney (29)
Victor Moses (21)
James McArthur (24)
Jean Beausejour (27)
Frano di Santo (23)

Average age of 26 years and 1 English player. I'm guessing at least 2 out of the 3 young stars will be sold though.

SPURS
Kaboul (26)
Gallas (34)
Walker (21) ENG
Bale (22)
Lennon (25) ENG
Van der Vaart (29)
Modric (26)
Livermore (22) ENG
Sandro (23)
Adebayor (28.)


Slightly lower average age of 25.5, but encouraging to see that most of the young stars have been brought on by the manager.

I also like that there are 5 english players (including subs that came on).

You could say that Harry has been laying the foundations over the last few years, with excellent work with Bale, Livermore, Sandro, Walker.

So I ask again, what is Martinez doing that Harry should replicate?

Why are we beating Harry with brick stick again?

 

[DHSF]

Other than playing a clever 3-4-3 and becoming a relegation battle specialist, what has Martinez delivered to Wigan?

Has he injected his first team with youth players?

Is he building an English spine and giving local players a chance?

Or has he built a team of Scottish rejects, spattered with some foreign stars (who will all be sold in the summer) leaving Wigan fudged, YET AGAIN?

How long are Moses, Rodallega and Di Santo likely to stick around?

All their young stars will be pillaged by the teams that don't spend 3/4 of the season in the bottom 3.

Let's take a look at the outfield players that Martinez and Redknapp fielded on the last day of the season:

WIGAN
Gary Caldwell (30)
Emmerson Boyce (32) ENG
Adrian Lopez (25)
Maynor Figueroa (29)
James McCarthy (21)
Shaun Maloney (29)
Victor Moses (21)
James McArthur (24)
Jean Beausejour (27)
Frano di Santo (23)

Average age of 26 years and 1 English player. I'm guessing at least 2 out of the 3 young stars will be sold though.

SPURS
Kaboul (26)
Gallas (34)
Walker (21) ENG
Bale (22)
Lennon (25) ENG
Van der Vaart (29)
Modric (26)
Livermore (22) ENG
Sandro (23)
Adebayor (28)


Slightly lower average age of 25.5, but encouraging to see that most of the young stars have been brought on by the manager.

I also like that there are 5 english players (including subs that came on).

You could say that Harry has been laying the foundations over the last few years, with excellent work with Bale, Livermore, Sandro, Walker.

So I ask again, what is Martinez doing that Harry should replicate?

Why are we beating Harry with brick stick again?

Because some are ****s.

I love Martinez by the way - he will be an excellent Manager but is still learning etc. A bit like Rodgers and Lambert.