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Giovani Lo Celso

thfcsteff said:
I don’t think any of us know the full story with Ndombele, but one thing I will always say is that there’s much more to it than him simply being ‘lazy’ or having a ‘poor attitude’ IMO.
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I think he just a simple, probably not very intelligent guy
He now had the trappings a £M and is happy
He has also been horrendously advised
I’ve frequently heard he edged to play cl for the very top teams…. delusional
He needs to get playing again at any level
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think he just a simple, probably not very intelligent guy
He now had the trappings a £M and is happy
He has also been horrendously advised
I’ve frequently heard he edged to play cl for the very top teams…. delusional
He needs to get playing again at any level
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I am not prepared to say anything about his intelligence, and I also do not believe he is remotely close to being ‘happy’…I think he made the right choice to join for Pochettino. The biggest problem is that what he signed up for left within months.
 
thfcsteff said:
I am not prepared to say anything about his intelligence, and I also do not believe he is remotely close to being ‘happy’…I think he made the right choice to join for Pochettino. The biggest problem is that what he signed up for left within months.
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None of the coaches we have had subsequently would actually sign a player of his type for their first team. He's very much been the wrong player, in the system in the wrong team at the wrong time.

The talent is clearly there and we've even seen it start to blossom most surprisingly under Mou but even then he was never a Mou type.

He needs to leave and get games somewhere that actually had a plan for him. He might then get his career back on track.

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thfcsteff said:
I am not prepared to say anything about his intelligence, and I also do not believe he is remotely close to being ‘happy’…I think he made the right choice to join for Pochettino. The biggest problem is that what he signed up for left within months.
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I know a lot of us think footballers are greedy people but I cant believe anyone would be happy not playing or being included in the squad.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Ndombele also looked overweight at times. A lot of people in regular life are but I cannot understand how a professional footballer allows themselves to be overweight.
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Attitude, and his has stunk the place out since he came here. Biggest waste of money we have ever signed. imo
 
thfcsteff said:
I am not prepared to say anything about his intelligence, and I also do not believe he is remotely close to being ‘happy’…I think he made the right choice to join for Pochettino. The biggest problem is that what he signed up for left within months.
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Yeah I can't believe the guy is happy at all from a football perspective. Didn't he take some sort of pay cut to go back to Lyon (the deal was a bit smoke and mirrors but thought he'd given up some money to do it)? The lad is immensely talented and is wasting away. He's 25 now so not a kid.

Dunno how anyone can comment on his intelligence. Never seen or heard anything from him to indicate he's any more or less intelligent than any of our other players.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Yeah I can't believe the guy is happy at all from a football perspective. Didn't he take some sort of pay cut to go back to Lyon (the deal was a bit smoke and mirrors but thought he'd given up some money to do it)? The lad is immensely talented and is wasting away. He's 25 now so not a kid.

Dunno how anyone can comment on his intelligence. Never seen or heard anything from him to indicate he's any more or less intelligent than any of our other players.
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Lyon paid some of his wages
He is caring like a dumb player
An intelligent one would be saying to his agent… get me out of here
I’ll take a pay cut to prove how good I am
A dumb one will see out his peak years being loaned out every season until he can leave ok a free to earn big money but not play at a big side
He has the talent to play for a very top side
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Lyon paid some of his wages
He is caring like a dumb player
An intelligent one would be saying to his agent… get me out of here
I’ll take a pay cut to prove how good I am
A dumb one will see out his peak years being loaned out every season until he can leave ok a free to earn big money but not play at a big side
He has the talent to play for a very top side
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https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.c...-pay-part-of-his-own-salary-during-lyon-loan/

The wording here is a bit ambiguous but it was reported similarly elsewhere. I'd read this that he effectively gave up some of his wages to go and play for Lyon.

None of us know what he's saying to his agent. He may have the talent, I believe he has bucketloads of it, but none of us knows what's going on with the guy. Is he struggling mentally or does he just not have the mentality that's needed for top level sport?
 
DeanoAustin said:
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.c...-pay-part-of-his-own-salary-during-lyon-loan/

The wording here is a bit ambiguous but it was reported similarly elsewhere. I'd read this that he effectively gave up some of his wages to go and play for Lyon.

None of us know what he's saying to his agent. He may have the talent, I believe he has bucketloads of it, but none of us knows what's going on with the guy. Is he struggling mentally or does he just not have the mentality that's needed for top level sport?
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He clearly doesn’t have the mentality
He needs a new agent
One that values him rather than the £££
A half decent one would have him moved by now at least on loan for this summer
I reckon Charlie Kane is his agent.. shame he can’t tell Tanguy about Kanes mentality … now that’s the benchmark
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He clearly doesn’t have the mentality
He needs a new agent
One that values him rather than the £££
A half decent one would have him moved by now at least on loan for this summer
I reckon Charlie Kane is his agent.. shame he can’t tell Tanguy about Kanes mentality … now that’s the benchmark
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He might not be the sharpest tool, he might be a brilliant thinker, I personally cannot tell (and would not judge) from his football career thus far.
I agree he needs better people around him.
I have to say also, lamenting the fact he doesn’t have the same mentality as Kane is a stretch and a half. Few do. That’s why Kane is such an outlier/unique story.

I agree that Ndombele could’ve made some different choices, but I have to say, the ‘lazy’ comments and whatnot are just cliches to me. What he obviously cannot do is adapt to play several different types of role for a side. He is, essentially, a pretty specific sort of player who requires a 4-2-3-1 to get the best out of him. He doesn’t work in a 4-3-3, probably wouldn’t in a 4-4-2, and certainly doesn’t in a 3-4-3. You could call that stubborness or see it as him just not being a flexi-player. Some players are harder work than others, just as some people are too.

Let’s just hope he can get a move fast. FWIW I think Lo Celso is the bigger waster because he does know better yet continued to phone it in/have injuries which always cleared up for international duty.
 
thfcsteff said:
He might not be the sharpest tool, he might be a brilliant thinker, I personally cannot tell (and would not judge) from his football career thus far.
I agree he needs better people around him.
I have to say also, lamenting the fact he doesn’t have the same mentality as Kane is a stretch and a half. Few do. That’s why Kane is such an outlier/unique story.

I agree that Ndombele could’ve made some different choices, but I have to say, the ‘lazy’ comments and whatnot are just cliches to me. What he obviously cannot do is adapt to play several different types of role for a side. He is, essentially, a pretty specific sort of player who requires a 4-2-3-1 to get the best out of him. He doesn’t work in a 4-3-3, probably wouldn’t in a 4-4-2, and certainly doesn’t in a 3-4-3. You could call that stubborness or see it as him just not being a flexi-player. Some players are harder work than others, just as some people are too.

Let’s just hope he can get a move fast. FWIW I think Lo Celso is the bigger waster because he does know better yet continued to phone it in/have injuries which always cleared up for international duty.
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He played in a 3 in France mate as well as a 2. He as also played in a 4-4-2
I watched a lot of him in France and was his biggest advocate to get him (18 months before we did). The issue isn’t his ability to play, it’s the players attitude and work rate.
Barca are try to get rid of De Jing at Barca to make money by moving him to CB… he is still busting a gut because he has desire, passion and the right attitude
Top players have to have that. They also have to have the right elements of self belief.
Tanguy is a £100m plus investment but his attitude is that of a failing player. He is the only person who could change that and he did t even do it back at Lyon, in his favoured system, at his old club
He is still young enough to have a proper career but he would need to sacrifice the £££ first to get back on track.
 
Problem is if a bunch of armchair pundits like us can see all their faults how will any professional with their job on the line want them in their team?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He played in a 3 in France mate as well as a 2. He as also played in a 4-4-2
I watched a lot of him in France and was his biggest advocate to get him (18 months before we did). The issue isn’t his ability to play, it’s the players attitude and work rate.
Barca are try to get rid of De Jing at Barca to make money by moving him to CB… he is still busting a gut because he has desire, passion and the right attitude
Top players have to have that. They also have to have the right elements of self belief.
Tanguy is a £100m plus investment but his attitude is that of a failing player. He is the only person who could change that and he did t even do it back at Lyon, in his favoured system, at his old club
He is still young enough to have a proper career but he would need to sacrifice the £££ first to get back on track.
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Was he a regular in 4-3-3? I did not think so. I stand to be corrected on that though.

I have read a lot about him since we were first interested, and noted comments from observers on weight and attitude, but to start commenting on his attitude and intelligence is just so far off the mark for me. You’re comparing him with De Jong, whose path has been very different in both life and football. The single biggest problem (IMO) with Ndombele, is he did not get into the game via conventional ‘building’ steps. As for the right elements of self-belief, again, this is such an arbitrary comment. I know professionals at the very very top of their game who are nearly crippled with self-doubt on a regular basis. They have good people around them to keep the ship going.

As for changing, I think it is well worth nothing that having had an early kicking from Mourinho, he did buckle down and work his way into Jose’s thinking and set-up. Then came Nuno, then came Conte, two more to adapt to and let’s face it, Ndombele is not the last player who simply won’t work in a Conte squad, we’ve got several.

I agree his costs make him a massive target, and he has not been able to do himself justice, but let’s see what happens next. I hope he gets a move where he can rebuild and -more importantly- be in another environment than ours for all concerned.
 
thfcsteff said:
I’d say proportionately he is in with both of those.
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I think you’re being harsh on Rebrov personally. I know he didn’t set the world alight with number of goals he scored, but his all round game was good I thought and showed some quality technique in what was a pretty poor team at the time. To be honest considering his size, I thought he held his own up front! Scored some decent goals too, just not as many as we would have liked although he wasn’t really an out and out striker at Dynamo Kiev anyway….
 
harr1984 said:
I think you’re being harsh on Rebrov personally. I know he didn’t set the world alight with number of goals he scored, but his all round game was good I thought and showed some quality technique in what was a pretty poor team at the time. To be honest considering his size, I thought he held his own up front! Scored some decent goals too, just not as many as we would have liked although he wasn’t really an out and out striker at Dynamo Kiev anyway….
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I think that is very fair mate. I suppose to further add credence to your observation, he played under GGG…arrrgggghhhhhhhhh!!!!
 
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