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George Galloway/Israel/Palestine
- Thread starter RomanzoCriminale
- Start date
Not really a great analogy. The land was under British (it had been Turkish until WWI ) control but sparsely populated, so it's more like the US giving them Alaska. Imagine Canada taking exception and it's even closer.
The Arabs there believed the land was promised to them by the British - the British deny it. I'm not sure anyone who knows the truth is still alive.
Good men do good things, evil men do evil things. It takes a special kind of cvnt (GHod) to make good men do evil things.
Just something I posted on Facebook
Haha Bradford is a ****ing **** hole anyway. Wouldn't go there if you paid me. Galloway is a complete prick.
Don't be deluded fools who believe everything they see in the media. Anything you say against gazans is “propaganda” ok lets look at the facts .... Since Israel came to be in 1948 there have been 11 million Muslims killed in the Middle East. Israel is responsible for 0.3% of them. So where were your facebook posts and protests then? Why aren’t your protesting about Syria? Iraq? Libiya? WHERE WERE YOU!! is it ok for your own people to kill each other? But when Israel wants to defend its people there is uproar!
Muslims in the middle east have displaced Christians, Jews, Catholics. 150,000 Jews in Iraq, 100,000 in Iran prior to 1948 .Killed gays, adulteress. This is clash between freedom & oppression. A clash between civilization and backwardness. This mentality belongs in the middle ages!
Judaism is 2,000 years older than Islam. Who do you think was there before?
The Koran mentions Jerusalem errrrr 0 times!
Muslims pray with their backs to Jerusalem! Jews pray towards it.
Hamas builds tunnels that cost approx $3 each to attack Israel. Israel spends it on bunkers and Iron Dome to protect its people!
There is a war going on. People die. Any war is brutal and its never nice to see Children die. Hamas are forcing people to stay behind. Their agenda is basically to kill all non believers. Egypt hate them. Saudi Arabia hate them. Infact most of the arab world do except the other terror organizations. The people of Gaza should have thought about that before they voted in a terrorist government. (although it was prob all fixed anyway)
Israel handed Gaza and the West bank over for peace. In Gaza they left green houses and business that were thriving. What did they do with it? Bulldozed it down because it belonged to Israel. That makes good business sense doesn’t it!
Hamas do not care for the people. That is very clear. Can you not see that? Do you not blame them in any of this??
Both sides will end up winning. Israel will destroy Hamas and its capabilities and Hamas and their people will/have got the sympathy vote. The only solution moving forward to this mess is for a new government to be put in place. Or let the UN manage it. Build it up for it to prosper without Hamas or any dictatorship!
Haha Bradford is a ****ing **** hole anyway. Wouldn't go there if you paid me. Galloway is a complete prick.
Don't be deluded fools who believe everything they see in the media. Anything you say against gazans is “propaganda” ok lets look at the facts .... Since Israel came to be in 1948 there have been 11 million Muslims killed in the Middle East. Israel is responsible for 0.3% of them. So where were your facebook posts and protests then? Why aren’t your protesting about Syria? Iraq? Libiya? WHERE WERE YOU!! is it ok for your own people to kill each other? But when Israel wants to defend its people there is uproar!
Muslims in the middle east have displaced Christians, Jews, Catholics. 150,000 Jews in Iraq, 100,000 in Iran prior to 1948 .Killed gays, adulteress. This is clash between freedom & oppression. A clash between civilization and backwardness. This mentality belongs in the middle ages!
Judaism is 2,000 years older than Islam. Who do you think was there before?
The Koran mentions Jerusalem errrrr 0 times!
Muslims pray with their backs to Jerusalem! Jews pray towards it.
Hamas builds tunnels that cost approx $3 each to attack Israel. Israel spends it on bunkers and Iron Dome to protect its people!
There is a war going on. People die. Any war is brutal and its never nice to see Children die. Hamas are forcing people to stay behind. Their agenda is basically to kill all non believers. Egypt hate them. Saudi Arabia hate them. Infact most of the arab world do except the other terror organizations. The people of Gaza should have thought about that before they voted in a terrorist government. (although it was prob all fixed anyway)
Israel handed Gaza and the West bank over for peace. In Gaza they left green houses and business that were thriving. What did they do with it? Bulldozed it down because it belonged to Israel. That makes good business sense doesn’t it!
Hamas do not care for the people. That is very clear. Can you not see that? Do you not blame them in any of this??
Both sides will end up winning. Israel will destroy Hamas and its capabilities and Hamas and their people will/have got the sympathy vote. The only solution moving forward to this mess is for a new government to be put in place. Or let the UN manage it. Build it up for it to prosper without Hamas or any dictatorship!
Notmegov
Roman Pavlyuchenko
Re: George Galloway
The thing is, they didn't start it. And the tragic sticking point of the whole conflict, and the debate surrounding it, as that neither side really started it. Indeed I'd say the Ancient Romans started it when they kicked the Jewish people out of their homeland millenia ago, and various European nations continued it when they repeatedly exiled and persecuted the Jewish people over the next couple of millenia, culminating in the Nazis killing millions of Jews in the 30s and 40s for no reason other than their being Jewish. At that point the Jews and the UN 'started' the Israel-Palestine conflict when they unilaterally and forcibly set up a brand new Jewish state carved out of land that had been populated by Muslim Arabs for hundreds of years, against the wishes of the local arab population. And the Palestinians and arabs continued it by retaliating and attacking Israel, thus setting off an endless ***-for-tat conflict that's made worse by the divisive religious context and the Jewish history of persecution and genocide.
So to my mind various European parties over the last couple of thousands of years are to blame for the conflict, but it's the Israelis and Palestinians that are now paying for it, both driven by their justifiable fears and grievances. And until people, starting with those of us who have no personal ties with the conflict, stop taking sides, start to view both parties with the empathy that they warrant, and focus on understanding both parties' behaviour rather than justifying or condemning it, I can't see the conflict ever ending.
The thing is, they didn't start it. And the tragic sticking point of the whole conflict, and the debate surrounding it, as that neither side really started it. Indeed I'd say the Ancient Romans started it when they kicked the Jewish people out of their homeland millenia ago, and various European nations continued it when they repeatedly exiled and persecuted the Jewish people over the next couple of millenia, culminating in the Nazis killing millions of Jews in the 30s and 40s for no reason other than their being Jewish. At that point the Jews and the UN 'started' the Israel-Palestine conflict when they unilaterally and forcibly set up a brand new Jewish state carved out of land that had been populated by Muslim Arabs for hundreds of years, against the wishes of the local arab population. And the Palestinians and arabs continued it by retaliating and attacking Israel, thus setting off an endless ***-for-tat conflict that's made worse by the divisive religious context and the Jewish history of persecution and genocide.
So to my mind various European parties over the last couple of thousands of years are to blame for the conflict, but it's the Israelis and Palestinians that are now paying for it, both driven by their justifiable fears and grievances. And until people, starting with those of us who have no personal ties with the conflict, stop taking sides, start to view both parties with the empathy that they warrant, and focus on understanding both parties' behaviour rather than justifying or condemning it, I can't see the conflict ever ending.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Re: George Galloway
I think the darkest bit of this is that Hamas choose to drag some of the very people they supposedly stand for (innocent members of the public) into places where they will die. It is a stunningly clever propaganda move, they have figured out a way to make sure the general response is anti-Israel. I think Israel's reaction has been absolutely 100% over the top, but I am appalled that people seem to feel Hamas are 'defending the Palestinian people' when I think it's pretty clear they're using them. Poverty has always bred desperation, thus the extremists got a foothold not once, not twice but three times in the region. If you wanted to go to the 50s, and see what was done to Iran (then Persia) by the UK and the US, then you could also say the modern seeds of distrust were sewn then. Afghanistan in the late 70s/early 80s and our creation of the Mujhadeen (sp?), another watershed moment, yet we continue to **** the region off/regime change where we like/go in for the sake of liberty and stay out when it doesn't suit us at our own whim. Iraq, Syria…the seeds of distrust have been sewn over decades sadly. Israel has been in the hot-spot since it's formation, and sadly, it's hard not to see it as some little Western stronghold in the region, which doesn't help the Israeli's one single bit. This entire thing is a cluster****, especially when we see (as I sadly predicted) ISIS becoming a major major threat; where are all the angry liberators on this point? Do the 40,000 Azidi on the mountain not deserve some outrage? What about the 120,000+ dead in Syria? There is a lot of vile **** going on, and yes, absolutely, Israel bombing UN schools is among those acts…but we have to look beyond the action and figure out why it happened if we really are in earnest about understanding the situation better and how to potentially stop it…phew…sorry about that, got on a roll…
I think the darkest bit of this is that Hamas choose to drag some of the very people they supposedly stand for (innocent members of the public) into places where they will die. It is a stunningly clever propaganda move, they have figured out a way to make sure the general response is anti-Israel. I think Israel's reaction has been absolutely 100% over the top, but I am appalled that people seem to feel Hamas are 'defending the Palestinian people' when I think it's pretty clear they're using them. Poverty has always bred desperation, thus the extremists got a foothold not once, not twice but three times in the region. If you wanted to go to the 50s, and see what was done to Iran (then Persia) by the UK and the US, then you could also say the modern seeds of distrust were sewn then. Afghanistan in the late 70s/early 80s and our creation of the Mujhadeen (sp?), another watershed moment, yet we continue to **** the region off/regime change where we like/go in for the sake of liberty and stay out when it doesn't suit us at our own whim. Iraq, Syria…the seeds of distrust have been sewn over decades sadly. Israel has been in the hot-spot since it's formation, and sadly, it's hard not to see it as some little Western stronghold in the region, which doesn't help the Israeli's one single bit. This entire thing is a cluster****, especially when we see (as I sadly predicted) ISIS becoming a major major threat; where are all the angry liberators on this point? Do the 40,000 Azidi on the mountain not deserve some outrage? What about the 120,000+ dead in Syria? There is a lot of vile **** going on, and yes, absolutely, Israel bombing UN schools is among those acts…but we have to look beyond the action and figure out why it happened if we really are in earnest about understanding the situation better and how to potentially stop it…phew…sorry about that, got on a roll…
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Re: George Galloway
Yes! I have said this more or less exactly the same way on my FB page…I absolutely agree. However we are in a dangerous loop of 'if you're not wholeheartedly supporting the cause then you're a c**t' territory. Sad times.
Yes! I have said this more or less exactly the same way on my FB page…I absolutely agree. However we are in a dangerous loop of 'if you're not wholeheartedly supporting the cause then you're a c**t' territory. Sad times.
ShelfLife
Clive Wilson
Although this is a subject I feel pretty strongly about, I generally tend to avoid getting involved in debates about the issue, particularly on the internet. Reason being that whilst I will openly admit to coming down firmly on the side of the Palestinian cause, I am open minded enough to appreciate that feelings on the issue run pretty strongly, and are deeply entrenched, on both sides of the divide, and debating the issue therefore appears to achieve vey little apart from ****ing everybody off. Also, when I come onto forums like this, I generally do so to get away from the **** going on in the real world.
Having said that, I'm going to break my own rule!, I do feel compelled on this occasion to make a couple of points. Scara has suggested above that Israel is criticised simply for being better at fighting a war than the Palestinians, or I more particularly I suppose, Hamas (for what it's worth I'm not interested in picking an argument with anyone but just wanted to bring another perspective to this). Israel has been armed to the teeth and receives billions of pounds worth of funding by some very powerful and rich allies, particularly the USA and Britian. What you essentially have therefore, is not a 'war' in traditional sense, (i.e a battle between two equally equipped forces or armies). What you have is Israel exploiting its vast resources and powerful friends, to exert control and dominance over the Palestinian people and Palestinian land. The same thing its always done. Over the years we have had physical and economic blockades, controlling thee food imports into Palestine as well as their water and electricity, land grabs and the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and businesses on the West Bank (which incidentally happens to be illegal even under Israeli law), the arbitrary arrests, shooting and other acts of violence against Palestinian civilians, including scores of children, by the Israeli police and military and other ground and air offences). These are actions which any reasonable observer will tell you have the hallmarks of bullying, subjugation, tyranny and dare I say it, apartheid.
Any reaction by the Palestinians to the abuses they suffer (whether that be through Hamas or otherwise), is then condemned as an act of terror against the state of Israel. This in turn means that Israel can respond in the most extreme way under the guise of 'self-defence', with virtual impunity. To paraphrase Chomsky, when you steal a people's land, make refugees of them, destroy their homes, kill their families and push them to the very edge (in both the literal and figurative sense), they are eventually going to react violently. When they do, any response by you cannot accurately be defined as self-defence.
This is why I think it so important to look at any specific outbreak of violence in Palestine, within the full context of its recent history, rather than in the micro sense. As others have remarked above, Hamas is relatively recent entity, whose formation and rise to power in Palestine is a symptom of decades long Israeli abuses, not the cause of it. A desperate response to a desperate situation by desperate people.
I will leave it there, save to say for those who are interested in learning more about the abuses the Palestinians in both the the West Bank and Gaza suffer on a daily basis (including during periods of supposed 'peace'), I'd recommend watch the Oscar nominated '5 Broken Cameras' (a documentary which was part produced by an Israeli). I have also linked a video below, which I suggests accurately summarises the current conflict within the context of recent history in the region.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=627913303994361&set=vb.118863654899331&type=2&theater
And with that, I reinstate my rule and can go back to the more important business of call Gooners crunts.
Having said that, I'm going to break my own rule!, I do feel compelled on this occasion to make a couple of points. Scara has suggested above that Israel is criticised simply for being better at fighting a war than the Palestinians, or I more particularly I suppose, Hamas (for what it's worth I'm not interested in picking an argument with anyone but just wanted to bring another perspective to this). Israel has been armed to the teeth and receives billions of pounds worth of funding by some very powerful and rich allies, particularly the USA and Britian. What you essentially have therefore, is not a 'war' in traditional sense, (i.e a battle between two equally equipped forces or armies). What you have is Israel exploiting its vast resources and powerful friends, to exert control and dominance over the Palestinian people and Palestinian land. The same thing its always done. Over the years we have had physical and economic blockades, controlling thee food imports into Palestine as well as their water and electricity, land grabs and the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and businesses on the West Bank (which incidentally happens to be illegal even under Israeli law), the arbitrary arrests, shooting and other acts of violence against Palestinian civilians, including scores of children, by the Israeli police and military and other ground and air offences). These are actions which any reasonable observer will tell you have the hallmarks of bullying, subjugation, tyranny and dare I say it, apartheid.
Any reaction by the Palestinians to the abuses they suffer (whether that be through Hamas or otherwise), is then condemned as an act of terror against the state of Israel. This in turn means that Israel can respond in the most extreme way under the guise of 'self-defence', with virtual impunity. To paraphrase Chomsky, when you steal a people's land, make refugees of them, destroy their homes, kill their families and push them to the very edge (in both the literal and figurative sense), they are eventually going to react violently. When they do, any response by you cannot accurately be defined as self-defence.
This is why I think it so important to look at any specific outbreak of violence in Palestine, within the full context of its recent history, rather than in the micro sense. As others have remarked above, Hamas is relatively recent entity, whose formation and rise to power in Palestine is a symptom of decades long Israeli abuses, not the cause of it. A desperate response to a desperate situation by desperate people.
I will leave it there, save to say for those who are interested in learning more about the abuses the Palestinians in both the the West Bank and Gaza suffer on a daily basis (including during periods of supposed 'peace'), I'd recommend watch the Oscar nominated '5 Broken Cameras' (a documentary which was part produced by an Israeli). I have also linked a video below, which I suggests accurately summarises the current conflict within the context of recent history in the region.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=627913303994361&set=vb.118863654899331&type=2&theater
And with that, I reinstate my rule and can go back to the more important business of call Gooners crunts.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Great post, fine reading…something which I think people should grasp, however, is that we are where we now, and IF we are REALLY serious about helping Palestine, then we need to seriously consider offering some proper economic and social support rather than ignoring the fact Hamas is in charge there. As you rightly said, their election was the end result of a disasterous spell of broken promises and abuses affected on those people by outsiders, leaving them with nothing but the desperate protection of extremists as refuge, and we should be saving them from that as much as anything…because Hamas care as little about them as anyone!
Kenyan Spur
Peter Taylor
THIS . Wonderful analysis. Thank you SIR.
Sorry to drag you away from the obviously important mission of calling gooners cvnts, but I feel the need to reply.
Since when was a war defined by two equal sides? I have quite literally never heard that definition until you mentioned it. What you see as bullying, others simply see as winning the war.
So let me phrase that the way I did originally; If Hamas (or the Palestinians in general) were better at killing Israeli women & children, and the numbers were more even, you'd not complain? That sounds dangerously like wanting more Israelis (or Jews) to die.
Yes, pretending to be a civilian and targeting civilians is terror. If you're concerned about what war is - that's not it.
It was phrased better than I ever could earlier in this thread, but I'll try and paraphrase - If Hamas stopped fighting tomorrow there'd be no more war, if Israel stopped fighting there'd be no more Israel. I've yet to meet a supporter of either side (barring the swivel-eyed Occupy types who simply have nothing better to do than cloak their anti-semitism and excess of Daddy's money in arguments for Palestine) who disagrees with that statement. That makes it self-defence. Israel has no interest whatsoever in stopping Palestine existing, there are a number of nations with a publicly stated aim of stopping Israel existing.
Why only recent history? Why not go back to the first day after Israel began to exist when all of their neighbours marched on them in an attempt to wipe them off the map? Doesn't that in some way make you question your self-defence statements?
Accurate or accurately describing your opinion?
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Sir that is a great post =D>=D>=D>
Notmegov
Roman Pavlyuchenko
Scara, I have been doint more reading and you keep on going on about the arabs attacking first, but the whole place was incredibly volatile and the jews had carried out 8 operations to take land thay was not aloted to them in the mandate it seems to me as kind of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk
Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk
1) And in a war between two wildly mismatched sides, the smaller has little option but to resort to terror.
2) If Hamas stopped fighting tomorrow there'd also still be an illegal occupation of Palestinians' land.
3) Why only the first day after Israel began to exist? Why not go back to the years preceding that, when the local Arab population was subjected to more than half of their land being forcibly taken away from them by Jews, supported by yet more arrogant colonial powers? Can you imagine if Islamic immigration to England suddenly quickended exponentially in pace, and the UN gave more than half of our territory away to create a new Islamic state?
Feels like you're only telling one side of the story, or at least painting a picture of selectively limited detail.
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ShelfLife
Clive Wilson
Sigh, so I guess that's my 'rule' well and truly out the window. I'll try and keep my responses brief and on point based on your own responses, but if you are interested in a longer discussion on this, I'd be happy to do so via PM or even meeting up for a coffee (depending on your geographic location of course!). I am just conscious (based on personal experience!) that such discussions can understandably go on for some time, and I wouldn't want to hijack the thread to the detriment of other users.
The point I was trying to make is I would imagine that most people's traditional perception of a war is two (or more) nations' armies engaging in armed conflict. Not to say that all the countries/sides would necessarily have to be have to be of equal size or fighting prowess, though generally one might expect a degree of equivalence and mutual willingness to so engage by the parties. However if you take the view that any type of armed conflict, howsoever caused and regardless of the respective might of the parties involved would qualify, then I have no trouble accepting that this current conflict could fall within the definition. Notwithstanding, I do consider the use of the word 'war' for these purposes to be something of a misnomer (but maybe that's just me).
Complain about what? Serious question. Did you mean to ask whether I would be troubled by the fact that civilians on the Israeli side were also being killed? Well, yes, of course I would, but that wouldn't change my opinion as to the root cause of the conflict - being the subjugation of the Palestinian people and Israel's apartheid policies (assuming there were no other material differences in this hypothetical world of yours).
Who's pretending to be a civilian exactly? The kids playing on the beach? Those in the UN run school? The men, woman and children who's homes had been shelled and were seeking respite and security in the UN shelter? Those that were queuing at the bread line? Those who were being treated for their injuries in hospital? All have been the victim of Israeli shelling in recent days.
There's a very apparent irony here of course. By your definition, it's Israel that is engaging in terrorism. When you fire missiles into an area as densely populated as Gaza, you do so in full knowledge that there will be scores of civilian deaths and injuries.
I don't necessarily disagree, but Palestine would still be under illegal occupation! [see root cause]. What you seem to be suggesting is that the Palestinians should just put with their ****ty existence -the gradual and on-going encroachment onto their land, the derogation of their rights/ liberties and dignities, the walls built around them, the theft of their businesses and trades, the Israeli control over their electricity and water supplies and the restriction on incoming food, aid and medicine - and then Israel would stop bombing them. Well that's jolly nice of them!
If Israel stopped all of this today, I am certain that the Palestinian population would come be able to come to terms with the practical realties of having a neighbouring state of Israel (thus effectively diminishing any relevance that Hamas has). After decades of living under oppression and witnessing the death and destruction of your loved ones and homes, I can't imagine that they'd be much lingering appetite for conflict, if you are just allowed to live on what you have been left with, but with the same freedoms, rights, and security as any other human being in the civilised world.
Yeah, that's about 15 different shades of b******t I'm afraid. When you've got no land left, you've sort of stopped existing. Guess what Israel has been doing since the beginning of its existence is continuing to do to this day? You'll find a rather handy map to illustrate the point here:
http://www.trueactivist.com/11-images-showing-the-extent-of-israels-palestinian-apartheid/ (first image)
Which nations exactly? If there are so many nations hell bent on Israel's destruction (and have the wherewithal to do so), why are they not already engaged in war it? How would a cessation of Israel's shelling (or "fighting" as you put it) of Palestine suddenly encourage other nations to invade it? I think you may have conflated cessation of bombing with disarmament there. In any case, a complete red herring.
Because recent history is, I would suggest, sufficient for the purposes of this discussion. But as EllTrev has already remarked, there is along history here that stretches back before Israel came to formally exist. Whilst I think you rather oversimplify the situation as was at the time, I do not see how hostility from neighbouring countries (each of whom were acting according to their own political motives at the time) on Israel's inception, is any sort of justification for Israel's shameful abuse of the Palestinian population as continues to this day.
My opinion of course, hence the use of the words "I suggest". I have no doubt that anyone with the will to do so, is more than capable of doing their own research and forming their own opinions.
The point I was trying to make is I would imagine that most people's traditional perception of a war is two (or more) nations' armies engaging in armed conflict. Not to say that all the countries/sides would necessarily have to be have to be of equal size or fighting prowess, though generally one might expect a degree of equivalence and mutual willingness to so engage by the parties. However if you take the view that any type of armed conflict, howsoever caused and regardless of the respective might of the parties involved would qualify, then I have no trouble accepting that this current conflict could fall within the definition. Notwithstanding, I do consider the use of the word 'war' for these purposes to be something of a misnomer (but maybe that's just me).
Complain about what? Serious question. Did you mean to ask whether I would be troubled by the fact that civilians on the Israeli side were also being killed? Well, yes, of course I would, but that wouldn't change my opinion as to the root cause of the conflict - being the subjugation of the Palestinian people and Israel's apartheid policies (assuming there were no other material differences in this hypothetical world of yours).
Who's pretending to be a civilian exactly? The kids playing on the beach? Those in the UN run school? The men, woman and children who's homes had been shelled and were seeking respite and security in the UN shelter? Those that were queuing at the bread line? Those who were being treated for their injuries in hospital? All have been the victim of Israeli shelling in recent days.
There's a very apparent irony here of course. By your definition, it's Israel that is engaging in terrorism. When you fire missiles into an area as densely populated as Gaza, you do so in full knowledge that there will be scores of civilian deaths and injuries.
I don't necessarily disagree, but Palestine would still be under illegal occupation! [see root cause]. What you seem to be suggesting is that the Palestinians should just put with their ****ty existence -the gradual and on-going encroachment onto their land, the derogation of their rights/ liberties and dignities, the walls built around them, the theft of their businesses and trades, the Israeli control over their electricity and water supplies and the restriction on incoming food, aid and medicine - and then Israel would stop bombing them. Well that's jolly nice of them!
If Israel stopped all of this today, I am certain that the Palestinian population would come be able to come to terms with the practical realties of having a neighbouring state of Israel (thus effectively diminishing any relevance that Hamas has). After decades of living under oppression and witnessing the death and destruction of your loved ones and homes, I can't imagine that they'd be much lingering appetite for conflict, if you are just allowed to live on what you have been left with, but with the same freedoms, rights, and security as any other human being in the civilised world.
Yeah, that's about 15 different shades of b******t I'm afraid. When you've got no land left, you've sort of stopped existing. Guess what Israel has been doing since the beginning of its existence is continuing to do to this day? You'll find a rather handy map to illustrate the point here:
http://www.trueactivist.com/11-images-showing-the-extent-of-israels-palestinian-apartheid/ (first image)
Which nations exactly? If there are so many nations hell bent on Israel's destruction (and have the wherewithal to do so), why are they not already engaged in war it? How would a cessation of Israel's shelling (or "fighting" as you put it) of Palestine suddenly encourage other nations to invade it? I think you may have conflated cessation of bombing with disarmament there. In any case, a complete red herring.
Because recent history is, I would suggest, sufficient for the purposes of this discussion. But as EllTrev has already remarked, there is along history here that stretches back before Israel came to formally exist. Whilst I think you rather oversimplify the situation as was at the time, I do not see how hostility from neighbouring countries (each of whom were acting according to their own political motives at the time) on Israel's inception, is any sort of justification for Israel's shameful abuse of the Palestinian population as continues to this day.
My opinion of course, hence the use of the words "I suggest". I have no doubt that anyone with the will to do so, is more than capable of doing their own research and forming their own opinions.
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What winds me up in all of this is that everyone seems to be condemning Israel and holding protests.... YET.....in Syria almost 200,000 civilians killed. 9m displaced. Sudan 2m dead 5m displaced and tens of thousands in slavery. Last week while you all were crying Gaza Gaza ISIS killed 1,700 Syrians in 5 days! Not forgetting the girls kidnapped in Nigeria. Why are people blinded by other catastrophes that are happening right now? Why is everything concentrated on a nation who are just defending their people. Israel seems to be getting criticized for being good at protecting its people! I am sure if here in England there was a war, we would love our government to be good at defending us.
Talking about funding. Hamas, Isis et al all receive millions from their oil rich neighbors but they spend the money on trying to destroy Israel. They are merely puppets to a bigger picture for the extremists. Hamas dont give a **** about civilians, every death on their side is a win for them. They are doing everything in their power to NOT protect Gazans. Yet the world is SILENT!
I think the point of this all has been missed. Hamas and other terror groups what Jews DEAD! no peace, no living side by side.. JUST DEAD. The threat of extremism wont just send at Israels door. it will effect all of us. So think about that before Condemning the only democracy in the Middle East.
Talking about funding. Hamas, Isis et al all receive millions from their oil rich neighbors but they spend the money on trying to destroy Israel. They are merely puppets to a bigger picture for the extremists. Hamas dont give a **** about civilians, every death on their side is a win for them. They are doing everything in their power to NOT protect Gazans. Yet the world is SILENT!
I think the point of this all has been missed. Hamas and other terror groups what Jews DEAD! no peace, no living side by side.. JUST DEAD. The threat of extremism wont just send at Israels door. it will effect all of us. So think about that before Condemning the only democracy in the Middle East.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Can you point out where anyone in this discussion has sent out a Pro-Hamas message? Also, I have seen on various sites which lean towards 'pro-Palestine' that they are equally condemning the quite frankly disgusting atrocities that ISIS and other militant organisations are committing on a daily basis. The numbers of the dead and the manner in which they are being executed is truly shocking.
I'm not sure any point has been missed? This is a discussion about Israel/Palestine. It's not a competition to gauge who is the least barbaric in their actions, which I find a lot of Pro-Israel supporters attempt to bring the fore with this issue.