General Transfer Rumour Discussion Thread

[Finney Is Back]

Btw, it's Firmino. No 'h' in there, so no '-yo' sound at the end... a fact that most broadcasters seem to be struggling with.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

 

[billyiddo]

Crap buys?.... Milner, Clyne, Benteke and Firminho?... Three good players all proven in the PL and a very, very exciting, talented player who had done well in a league that is quite similar to the PL?

Most clubs are indeed moving backwards, unfortunately we are one of those clubs. A few years ago under Redknapp we expected to challenge the top four, we now happily accept 5th or 6th place with no realistic ambition of a top 4 place.

A few things have changed in the last 3 or 4 years - mainly that Arsenal are no longer in our sights financially and we're starting work on a mutimillion pound stadium build - Not realistic to be expecting top 4 in the current circumstances.

I expect us to put up a fight for it and be in a position to make the most of any top 4 club having a bad season and most importantly to continue buying/promoting prospects that can hopefully develop enough to take us up a rung or two (similar to players like Bale and Modric)

 

[Vega]

Thanks, I stand corrected.

I think we have all learned a little something there.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yep, even City, with all their unearned millions took weeks and weeks and more than a little player agitation to get Sterling.

Man U have paid strong money for their targets, Liverpool have paid a release clause for their main signing and Chel53a are struggling to sign Stones.

It's not Levy 'leaving it late again'; there are at least two other parties in a transfer: the selling club and the player (and agent). Even if a club will sell, the player might want to wait to see who else comes in.

We don't operate in a vacuum, there are myriad factors that can affect our proposed dealings.

Credit to them for starting the process early then!

Also I think the difference with Chelsea is that they have one particular target to try to provide a very long term solution to a position where they are already very strong (they probably have the best central defensive partnership in the league). We are looking to strengthen an area where we only have one viable player, to the point where we are being forced to play him for 85 minutes in a friendly in Germany just a few days before the season starts.

 

[Finney Is Back]

and with nearly a month of the window left to get one. We haven't sold Soldado yet. So we're only really going into the first game with one striker and a Soldado.

26 days to sign a striker (or preferably two).... but only 3 days until the season starts. With a second choice striker who is deemed so unsuitable that he hasn't even travelled to our USA or Germany pre season tours (putting an even bigger strain on Harry Kane is probably already knackered after a breakthrough season, then the Asia/Australia tour, then the Euro under 21s tournament).

Let's face it we are going into the Man Utd game with ONE striker (plus Shak Coulthirst)

We'll then be playing the next few games with that same one striker while our new striker/strikers (assuming we actually bring one/them in) have a period of training.

We are pretty much asking for something to happen to Kane right now!

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

26 days to sign a striker (or preferably two).... but only 3 days until the season starts. With a second choice striker who is deemed so unsuitable that he hasn't even travelled to our USA or Germany pre season tours (putting an even bigger strain on Harry Kane is probably already knackered after a breakthrough season, then the Asia/Australia tour, then the Euro under 21s tournament).

Let's face it we are going into the Man Utd game with ONE striker (plus Shak Coulthirst)

We'll then be playing the next few games with that same one striker while our new striker/strikers (assuming we actually bring one/them in) have a period of training.

We are pretty much asking for something to happen to Kane right now!

Yes, but whoever we buy is going to be back up. Whoever it is will know that, so why not hold out. From player's perspective a) could play back up at another club and be paid more money or b) could go somewhere and be first choice. From our perspective, yes Soldado has not been taken on any tour but he's still with us. We know what we have and what his capabilities are.

Why do you think Charlie Austin has not been transferred as yet? There's been plenty of interest and I'd hazard a guess that he is waiting and seeing. Our options have been reduced, granted, but we would never have paid the money for Benteke. Berahino is still available, as is Austin. Until Kane gets injured, there is no desperation.

I don't think it is time to hit the panic button. The club have said we are in the market for a striker so it's not as if they're unaware of the situation. Sometimes I think, as fans, we complicate things too much. Constant pressure to buy buy buy, then when you do buy it's you haven't bought early or you've wasted your money. Then when you buy quality early and those signings don't work out, those players are brick. I trust the club and those in charge to do what they feel is best. They have the knowledge, they have the experience and more often than not they have been right.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

If you look at the interview with Liverpool chief exec http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/9934230/92-live-liverpool at about 3:45 he talks about their transfers. He says that they haven't done anything differently this year compared to others, but things just fell into place. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

I like many others don't like the fact the transfer window overlaps the start of the season. However, that is the way that it is, and I'd much rather us get the right players at the right price then overpay for someone just to get it done earlier or miss out on our first choice because we've spent our money before.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Crap buys?.... Milner, Clyne, Benteke and Firminho?... Three good players all proven in the PL and a very, very exciting, talented player who had done well in a league that is quite similar to the PL?

Most clubs are indeed moving backwards, unfortunately we are one of those clubs. A few years ago under Redknapp we expected to challenge the top four, we now happily accept 5th or 6th place with no realistic ambition of a top 4 place.

Liverpool have been very sexy. They've signed a random assortment of names, with no thought to coherence or system. They just won't gel and Rodgers will be sacked by christmas. Then the new manager won't fancy them and they'll be sold off for a big loss.

We are not moving backwards, we've just been rebuilding. All teams are cyclical. Redknapp left us an aged squad with almost no young players coming through (Walker and Sandro the two exceptions). We had to clear the decks and start from scratch. The only issue is that we've had to do that twice - 2012 and 2014 - as AVB didn't work out. We've got the youngest squad in Europe now and we're just hitting the growth phase of this new cycle.

6th has been our par position since City started doping, and it will be till the stadium is built. We need to concentrate on achieving glory through the cups.

 

[jimmyb]

i think because of the level of player we are trying to sign and the amount it will cost, meaning mid level and relatively cheap ie Wimmer, Alli, Trippier, Alderweireld, Werner, Njie, Yarmelenko standard, there really shouldnt be any problems and delays securing these types nice and early

Aulas has said that out of Njie and one other(name escapes me) one of them can leave. So he is for sale at the right price, and Stuttgart are a very very average side atm and will struggle to keep any of their players if someone comes in for them. Like i said we are talking here about mid level, cheapish targets. They are not Pedro, Depay, Morata, Cavani etc

all we need to do is sit down with the clubs for however long it takes to thrash out a deal

You might be right that these are mid level, cheapish players who would leap at the opportunity to join Spurs. But you don't know that these players are or were our primary targets.

So while there should have been no impediment to signing these players "nice and early" (just as we signed our defensive reinforcements nice and early), there might well be / have been plenty of impediments to signing our first choice options.

The question then is, at what point should the club give up on its first choice options and go for plan B or C instead? And I would suggest that the answer to that is far greyer and more complex than the answer to the question that you are effectively asking.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I think it's a bit too early to say that Gutterboy. It could go either way. I think Liverpool have made some good signings. I don't know how they're going to keep the harmony in the squad though with players like Balotelli. He's hardly going to be quiet on the bench. Benteke will get them goals as will Ings.

 

[jimmyb]

In 2011 we clearly needed a proper DM and CF all summer. We signed Parker and Adebayor at the end of August. As soon as they joined, we exploded into form, but we'd dropped 6 out of 6 points before they'd played. We missed out on Champions League that year by one point.

Then in 2012, we signed Adebayor, Dembele, Lloris and Dempsey right at the end of the window. We dropped seven points from the first three games against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Brom and Norwich. Had we either scored just one more or conceded just one less goal in any of those three relatively easy games, we'd have qualified for the Champions League, but we dropped points in all three as a result of not having the necessary players fit and available.

The window closes on August 31st, but the season starts on August 8th. We absolutely should be looking to take maximum points from the games against Stoke, Leicester and Everton in August, and whilst the United game is widely seen as anything at all that we take being a bonus, I personally don't think we'll have a better time to take points off them than when four new players are settling into the starting XI and there's a big question mark over the future of their star keeper. Not to mention the fact that they lost at home to the likes of West Brom, Swansea and Southampton last season and that we've won there on two of our last three visits. Four games we really should be looking to maximise our chances of victory in, and four games that it looks like we're going into unprepared.

Now that Sherwood and Redknapp are gone - we have far less insight into the behind the scenes work in the club, so it's hard to know whether the problem lies with poor scouting and target identification, indecisiveness of who to sign, or Levy haggling over small change, but the fact that we have allowed ourselves to go into the season with Lamela and Chadli both still in the starting XI and with Kane as our only recognised striker is shambolic.

Spot the fundamental contradiction in your post!

On the one hand, our seasons past have been undone by the fact that we failed to buy our new signings early enough and therefore dropped points in August. And on the other, our best chance of beating Man Utd this season is by playing them in August because they have a number of new signings to bed in.

Is it one rule for Utd and another for us?

 

[indianspur]

You might be right that these are mid level, cheapish players who would leap at the opportunity to join Spurs. But you don't know that these players are or were our primary targets.

So while there should have been no impediment to signing these players "nice and early" (just as we signed our defensive reinforcements nice and early), there might well be / have been plenty of impediments to signing our first choice options nice and early.

The question then is, at what point should the club give up on its first choice options and go for plan B or C instead? And I would suggest that the answer to that is far greyer and more complex than the answer to the question that you are effectively asking.

well, because of the market we are in, like i said mid level cheap, im not sure there is a big difference in ability between plan A, B, C. My feeling is they all belong at the same level and each one maybe has certain skills which are slightly different from the others but nothing that marks plan A to be that much better than plan C lets say.

so for example for the Harry Kane back up id say we have a list with 3 or 4 targets and our job is simply to get one of them. None are right now better than Harry, but all have potential to improve and for now will be adequate to come in if Harry is rested or injured.

so im sure as youve gathered by now, the answer is it doesnt matter who out of A,B,C we get, just stop faffing around get one in sharpish ffs

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

well, because of the market we are in, like i said mid level cheap, im not sure there is a big difference in ability between plan A, B, C. My feeling is they all belong at the same level and each one maybe has certain skills which are slightly different from the others but nothing that marks plan A to be that much better than plan C lets say.

so for example for the Harry Kane back up id say we have a list with 3 or 4 targets and our job is simply to get one of them. None are right now better than Harry, but all have potential to improve and for now will be adequate to come in if Harry is rested or injured.

so im sure as youve gathered by now, the answer is it doesnt matter who out of A,B,C we get, just stop faffing around get one in sharpish ffs

But what if the first option is for someone that can complement Kane as well as be back up and the other options are just back up?

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think it's a bit too early to say that Gutterboy. It could go either way. I think Liverpool have made some good signings. I don't know how they're going to keep the harmony in the squad though with players like Balotelli. He's hardly going to be quiet on the bench. Benteke will get them goals as will Ings.

I like Ings. He's the one signing of theirs I have any jealousy about

They certainly aren't going to be an organised, harmonious and purposeful unit like we are

 

[glasgowspur]

It's not as easy as going into a shop and saying give me that one.
Look at soldado, he's available, wants to leave and is seemingly in talks with a couple of clubs. Should be easy, so why is it not done? Because it's not that easy is why.
There's four parties weighing up options and trying to get the best deal while watching for someone else to come along and muck things up.

 

[SUIYHA]

Spot the fundamental contradiction in your post!

On the one hand, our seasons past have been undone by the fact that we failed to buy our new signings early enough and therefore dropped points in August. And on the other, our best chance of beating Man Utd this season is by playing them in August because they have a number of new signings to bed in.

Is it one rule for Utd and another for us?

The earlier they're signed, the earlier they settle in and start winning us points.

Especially if coming from abroad. Having two brand new central midfielders means team cohesion won't be what it will be later in the season. I'd much rather take on Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin now when they're still getting to know each other than later in the season when they're in full stride.

Chadli, Lamela and Townsend aren't good enough. We need to sign players that are good enough. Every day we wait before signing them minimises the impact they can have over the course of our season. As we've seen before, dropping even two points in August can have disastrous consequences come May, let alone the twelve we may have to play for without addressing the top priority issues that need fixing. I totally get that sometimes you have to wait, negotiations get drawn out and sometimes the best players don't become available until circumstances change at the last minute, but I'd have hoped we'd have gotten to this stage with only one or two of the essential signings still needing to be made, let alone four.

 

[indianspur]

I think it's a bit too early to say that Gutterboy. It could go either way. I think Liverpool have made some good signings. I don't know how they're going to keep the harmony in the squad though with players like Balotelli. He's hardly going to be quiet on the bench. Benteke will get them goals as will Ings.

i think there are going to be fireworks in that squad, explosive

But what if the first option is for someone that can complement Kane as well as be back up and the other options are just back up?

well if Poch is looking for a striker that can complement Kane and also be a back up, then his list will contain 3 or 4 very similar players who can do both jobs

 

[LCLC]

Yes, but whoever we buy is going to be back up. Whoever it is will know that, so why not hold out. From player's perspective a) could play back up at another club and be paid more money or b) could go somewhere and be first choice. From our perspective, yes Soldado has not been taken on any tour but he's still with us. We know what we have and what his capabilities are.

Why do you think Charlie Austin has not been transferred as yet? There's been plenty of interest and I'd hazard a guess that he is waiting and seeing. Our options have been reduced, granted, but we would never have paid the money for Benteke. Berahino is still available, as is Austin. Until Kane gets injured, there is no desperation.

I don't think it is time to hit the panic button. The club have said we are in the market for a striker so it's not as if they're unaware of the situation. Sometimes I think, as fans, we complicate things too much. Constant pressure to buy buy buy, then when you do buy it's you haven't bought early or you've wasted your money. Then when you buy quality early and those signings don't work out, those players are ****. I trust the club and those in charge to do what they feel is best. They have the knowledge, they have the experience and more often than not they have been right.

I really think that you are super wide of the mark here.

Having one striker at a top 5 club with apparent CL aspirations is a fudging crisis mate. The fact the season starts and if our striker gets a niggle we have no one else is absolutely shocking regardless of any strategy or cost saving.

Also this view seems to negate any possibility that Kane has second season syndrome or a loss of form.

Added to this, if Berahino arrives, he will play with Kane. Kane's position is a number 10 or a '9 and a half' as Sherwood liked to say. Berhaino would a great 9 with kane dropping into 10 and similarly Kane would play 9 with Berahino playing wide. A good striker will be bought to accompany what we have and its very arrogant to think that Kane will never be moved or rested etc.

To cut a long story short, our current situation is a sham and if kane gets injured it's not an emergency, its gross negligence because then we will be forced to panic buy or pay over the odds anyway.

Frankly this transfer window has gone from having the potential of 10/10 is currently slipping to 6/10 regardless of who we now get in.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Liverpool have been very sexy. They've signed a random assortment of names, with no thought to coherence or system. They just won't gel and Rodgers will be sacked by christmas. Then the new manager won't fancy them and they'll be sold off for a big loss.

We are not moving backwards, we've just been rebuilding. All teams are cyclical. Redknapp left us an aged squad with almost no young players coming through (Walker and Sandro the two exceptions). We had to clear the decks and start from scratch. The only issue is that we've had to do that twice - 2012 and 2014 - as AVB didn't work out. We've got the youngest squad in Europe now and we're just hitting the growth phase of this new cycle.

6th has been our par position since City started doping, and it will be till the stadium is built. We need to concentrate on achieving glory through the cups.

Of course that is assuming that you also conveniently ignore Huddlestone (22), Caulker (20), Naughton (20), Bale (21), Rose (21), Falque (22), and Livermore (21), Redknapp was also the manager who put the Vertonghen deal in place. I think Redknapp also gave debuts to youngsters such as Harry Kane, Tom Carrol, Ryan Fredericks and Andros Townsend. Ryan Mason was also left at the club at the end of Redknapp's tenure. In fact of the players at Spurs when Redknapp left I think you could only really call Gallas, Saha and Friedel old (33, 34 and 40 when Redknapp departed). The next oldest players were Parker, King and Van Der Vaart at 30, 30 and 29 respectively. That hardly represents a major rebuilding job for a manager, the problem was simply that we chose the wrong manager who made bad decisions of what players to let go and even more obviously what players to sign.

I also disagree with you on your description of the Liverpool players, they are all good players. I think all would play a significant part in our team/squad. Funnily enough the one that I am least sure about is the one that you like most - Danny Ings (but sometimes I wonder whether you base your rating of players on whether or not we bid for them?)

 

[Finney Is Back]

I like Ings. He's the one signing of theirs I have any jealousy about

They certainly aren't going to be an organised, harmonious and purposeful unit like we are

It's funny because I think he is the worst of their signings so far, as well as the one that Liverpool probably had the least need for.