General Transfer Discussion Thread

[tommysvr]

Expect more of these sort of thrashings against all the top teams who have gone out and spent money this summer. Gone out and bought their managers targets. Going backwards every season now.

You sound like a bundle of joy

 

[Jordinho]

Agreed it's looked like we are not going to land MS and he seemed to be the no 1 target and we have failed. But to be fair Southampton have stood there ground. I wonder if this will upset Poch... We should have let Townsend go to them might have softened them up. To be honest we are looking at 6/7 place this year again. I did hear our owner was in the ground today hopefully free up some funds but doubtful.

If this upsets him he's not cut out for management. Scheiderlin might have been his first choice because he's a safe bet, doesn't necessarily mean he's the best we can get.

 

[WhoopWhoop]

You sound like a bundle of joy

Just a realist mate who aint scared to criticise things like a lot seem to be.

 

[WestBerkshire]

I agree to an extent. Poch came in early in the summer. We should have done everything in our power to get his first choice targets in as early as possible but as usual it seems like moutinho and villa before our manager is being fobbed off with cheap alternatives. Wellbeck on loan is just embarassing shouldn't be allowed to loan between prem clubs.

 

[DubaiSpur]

its alignment between the managers targets and the boards targets that we so desperately need to balance the need for a new stadium and eventually champions league football

I firmly think we've decided 'sod the manager's targets' in our quest for a new stadium, while still expecting him to get CL football. It is that dysfunctional style of operating that is hurting us now. Just for once, I'd like to see Poch backed: not given Moneyball low-cost alternatives, but backed and given the players he wants, that he sees making a difference.

I sincerely doubt it will happen, of course, but I hope Levy's come to his senses watching today's performance. Some of the players out there don't want to play for Poch: or, more precisely, they don't fancy playing for Poch when the going gets tough, preferring instead to withdraw into their shells and not give a damn. Schneiderlin desperately wanted to play for Poch, and Poch alone: but no, we're apparently prepared to overlook paying what Soton want for him and give Poch Stambouli instead. And what if Stambouli goes the Capoue way and switches off when faced with adversity? Guess who gets the blame then? Yep, Poch.

Utterly dysfunctional, and I hope Levy, being the intelligent, forward-thinking man that he undoubtedly is, sees this.

 

[DHSF]

I firmly think we've decided 'sod the manager's targets' in our quest for a new stadium, while still expecting him to get CL football. It is that dysfunctional style of operating that is hurting us now. Just for once, I'd like to see Poch backed: not given Moneyball low-cost alternatives, but backed and given the players he wants, that he sees making a difference.

I sincerely doubt it will happen, of course, but I hope Levy's come to his senses watching today's performance. Some of the players out there don't want to play for Poch: or, more precisely, they don't fancy playing for Poch when the going gets tough, preferring instead to withdraw into their shells and not give a damn. Schneiderlin desperately wanted to play for Poch, and Poch alone: but no, we're apparently prepared to overlook paying what Soton want for him and give Poch Stambouli instead. And what if Stambouli goes the Capoue way and switches off when faced with adversity? Guess who gets the blame then? Yep, Poch.

Utterly dysfunctional, and I hope Levy, being the intelligent, forward-thinking man that he undoubtedly is, sees this.

Exactly and thats how it should be. I am a Manager at my firm and im asked to recruit, no one recruits for me. If the **** hits the fan then I get the blame and rightly so. If they started to recruit for me and the **** hits the fan, me getting the blame would be wrong. Football Managers should be given the players they want and all this will have been discussed at the interview etc. I would never accept a job that tells me to accept what im given and not have 100% say in the recruitment process (negotiations and salaries etc is out of the remit of the Manager)

 

[Armchair Expert]

Exactly and thats how it should be. I am a Manager at my firm and im asked to recruit, no one recruits for me. If the **** hits the fan then I get the blame and rightly so. If they started to recruit for me and the **** hits the fan, me getting the blame would be wrong. Football Managers should be given the players they want and all this will have been discussed at the interview etc. I would never accept a job that tells me to accept what im given and not have 100% say in the recruitment process (negotiations and salaries etc is out of the remit of the Manager)

so we should bid 150 million for Schneiderlin then? What if Poch targets Messi?

 

[WestBerkshire]

He's not targeting messi tho is he? He's targeting players who are very much attainable for a club of spurs stature but for whatever reason we are going down the route of absolute cheap deals and embarassing loans like Danny wellbeck.

 

[Armchair Expert]

He's not targeting messi tho is he? He's targeting players who are very much attainable for a club of spurs stature but for whatever reason we are going down the route of absolute cheap deals and embarassing loans like Danny wellbeck.

How is he very attainable? If Southampton refuse to sell him we're not allowed to have him unfortunately. I'm not sure where we've acquired this GHod given right to Southampton's players from :lol:

Why is Welback embarrassing? I'd be very happy with getting him in. Whats embarrassing is getting in a huff because another premier league team won't gift wrap us their best player!

 

[metalgear]

When you say targets do you mean ambition or transfer? If its ambition then yes definitely should be aligned but if you are referring to players then im old skool and as far as im concerned what the Manager considers as targets is the only one that matters - all within reason i.e. not spending 10m on a 40 yr old.

It's both, across what is manageable in the immediate future, and a shared roadmap,with potential replacements and upgrades. Balancing the books on player wages and transfers... It comes down to this... And I don't think we've fared too well recently. The easy thing is to say that Levy is not a footballing man, but it could as easily be the managers fault.

 

[Spursalot]

I agree to an extent. Poch came in early in the summer. We should have done everything in our power to get his first choice targets in as early as possible but as usual it seems like moutinho and villa before our manager is being fobbed off with cheap alternatives. Wellbeck on loan is just embarassing shouldn't be allowed to loan between prem clubs.

But he needed time to assess the players we had. You can't just turn up and demand new players without seeing what you're working with.

 

[metalgear]

I firmly think we've decided 'sod the manager's targets' in our quest for a new stadium, while still expecting him to get CL football. It is that dysfunctional style of operating that is hurting us now. Just for once, I'd like to see Poch backed: not given Moneyball low-cost alternatives, but backed and given the players he wants, that he sees making a difference.

I sincerely doubt it will happen, of course, but I hope Levy's come to his senses watching today's performance. Some of the players out there don't want to play for Poch: or, more precisely, they don't fancy playing for Poch when the going gets tough, preferring instead to withdraw into their shells and not give a damn. Schneiderlin desperately wanted to play for Poch, and Poch alone: but no, we're apparently prepared to overlook paying what Soton want for him and give Poch Stambouli instead. And what if Stambouli goes the Capoue way and switches off when faced with adversity? Guess who gets the blame then? Yep, Poch.

Utterly dysfunctional, and I hope Levy, being the intelligent, forward-thinking man that he undoubtedly is, sees this.

Difficult argument, brilliantly articulated. I am torn, and this are my repressed thoughts. I hope that Poch finds a way, his way, and also something that works for the clubs ambition. Last thing I want now is another manager in the next 36 months.

In poch I trust, regardless of what levy avails. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. Makes it easier to support spurs during these very complex times.

 

[DHSF]

Whats the chances of falcao last minute signing even a loan. Would be funny though. Dreaming.

 

[braineclipse]

I firmly think we've decided 'sod the manager's targets' in our quest for a new stadium, while still expecting him to get CL football. It is that dysfunctional style of operating that is hurting us now. Just for once, I'd like to see Poch backed: not given Moneyball low-cost alternatives, but backed and given the players he wants, that he sees making a difference.

I sincerely doubt it will happen, of course, but I hope Levy's come to his senses watching today's performance. Some of the players out there don't want to play for Poch: or, more precisely, they don't fancy playing for Poch when the going gets tough, preferring instead to withdraw into their shells and not give a damn. Schneiderlin desperately wanted to play for Poch, and Poch alone: but no, we're apparently prepared to overlook paying what Soton want for him and give Poch Stambouli instead. And what if Stambouli goes the Capoue way and switches off when faced with adversity? Guess who gets the blame then? Yep, Poch.

Utterly dysfunctional, and I hope Levy, being the intelligent, forward-thinking man that he undoubtedly is, sees this.

So the answer to how we should beat teams with bigger budgets than us is to do what they're doing?

To me, if we try to do what the teams with significantly bigger budgets than us do we will end up losing out.

When we managed to get 4th under Redknapp it was with a combination of talented players that he didn't ask for (already there), that were signed to do well long term. And quite a few fairly low cost players that were criticized by many as not ambitious enough when they were made.

Look at Dortmund or look at Atletico Madrid. Teams that in recent years in big leagues have managed to get past teams with significantly bigger budgets. Have they done it by going out and just signing first choice targets no matter the price?

Just a realist mate who aint scared to criticise things like a lot seem to be.

Yeah. If there's one thing that really describes internet message boards it's that people are in general scared to criticize.

 

[Raziel]

So the answer to how we should beat teams with bigger budgets than us is to do what they're doing?

To me, if we try to do what the teams with significantly bigger budgets than us do we will end up losing out.

When we managed to get 4th under Redknapp it was with a combination of talented players that he didn't ask for (already there), that were signed to do well long term. And quite a few fairly low cost players that were criticized by many as not ambitious enough when they were made.

Look at Dortmund or look at Atletico Madrid. Teams that in recent years in big leagues have managed to get past teams with significantly bigger budgets. Have they done it by going out and just signing first choice targets no matter the price?



Yeah. If there's one thing that really describes internet message boards it's that people are in general scared to criticize.

Well said, outspending any of Pool/Scum/Manure/City/Cheat$ki is not an option for us.

What people forget is Poch "made" the players he had at Southampton, I don't think Levy is being unreasonable by asking him to work with a team that starts at a higher level by far already.

 

[DubaiSpur]

So the answer to how we should beat teams with bigger budgets than us is to do what they're doing?

To me, if we try to do what the teams with significantly bigger budgets than us do we will end up losing out.

When we managed to get 4th under Redknapp it was with a combination of talented players that he didn't ask for (already there), that were signed to do well long term. And quite a few fairly low cost players that were criticized by many as not ambitious enough when they were made.

Look at Dortmund or look at Atletico Madrid. Teams that in recent years in big leagues have managed to get past teams with significantly bigger budgets. Have they done it by going out and just signing first choice targets no matter the price?

And what, pray tell, did Harry Redknapp ask for when he did get into the CL? Quality players, requiring a bit of a commitment both financially and on the wage bill. We presumably laughed off his requests with an admonishment to 'work with what you've got: it got you to 4th last season, why wouldn't it work again?'. The results, roughly three and a half years on from the end of our sole CL campaign, are clear to see. And the fallacy of expecting CL football on the cheap was at its most transparent when we gave Harry those 'PL proven veterans' Nelsen and Saha and told him to get CL football with those reinforcements.

There are times when judicious investment is required: to ease the manager's transition into life at Spurs, to provide a morale boost and new legs going into the second half of the season, to secure a player that could in the future and in the present be a lynchpin to the manager's style of play. Ultimately, we'll have more misses than hits sticking to our dogmatic belief that we can achieve CL football not only without spending much money overall, but also without trusting the manager himself (evident from our managerial history and our record when nailing those 'key' transfers you and I have been arguing about across the forum) and giving him timescales and tangible targets to achieve right off the bat (finish no lower than 6th, finish 4th, etcetera) while refusing him any signings he might wish to make that don't fit with what we see as 'value for money'. It is a fool's game, just as spending as much as the big boys all the time is a fool's game. And it isn't the 'either-or' situation you're portraying it to be.

 

[WhoopWhoop]

I'm still waiting for us to spend the moutinho money tbh

 

[JerusalemMan]

Just a realist mate who aint scared to criticise things like a lot seem to be.

There's a major difference between rocking the boat and drilling holes in the bottom

 

[braineclipse]

And what, pray tell, did Harry Redknapp ask for when he did get into the CL? Quality players, requiring a bit of a commitment both financially and on the wage bill. We presumably laughed off his requests with an admonishment to 'work with what you've got: it got you to 4th last season, why wouldn't it work again?'. The results, roughly three and a half years on from the end of our sole CL campaign, are clear to see. And the fallacy of expecting CL football on the cheap was at its most transparent when we gave Harry those 'PL proven veterans' Nelsen and Saha and told him to get CL football with those reinforcements.

There are times when judicious investment is required: to ease the manager's transition into life at Spurs, to provide a morale boost and new legs going into the second half of the season, to secure a player that could in the future and in the present be a lynchpin to the manager's style of play. Ultimately, we'll have more misses than hits sticking to our dogmatic belief that we can achieve CL football not only without spending much money overall, but also without trusting the manager himself (evident from our managerial history and our record when nailing those 'key' transfers you and I have been arguing about across the forum) and giving him timescales and tangible targets to achieve right off the bat (finish no lower than 6th, finish 4th, etcetera) while refusing him any signings he might wish to make that don't fit with what we see as 'value for money'. It is a fool's game, just as spending as much as the big boys all the time is a fool's game. And it isn't the 'either-or' situation you're portraying it to be.

We had a net spend of around £20m in the 10/11 season (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/transfers/verein/148?saison_id=2010&pos=&detailpos=). We also signed Gallas on a free and that season and the next we had a fairly bloated squad most likely costing a fair bit in wages in addition to CL bonuses etc. The financial reports at the time had us breaking even including the CL money.

Our managers have been getting key players in. Redknapp clearly wanted Defoe and Palacios. He clearly wanted Crouch. He clearly wanted Parker. He got all of them. You can always keep asking for "one more, one more", but I honestly don't think it's fair. Ramos and Comolli also got their players. Under AVB/Baldini we spent the money available to spend seeing us break even again. I do think the transfer power was given slightly more to Baldini in the second window, I don't think that was a bad idea.

Which players did Rodgers sign that wasn't seen as value for money signings? Which signings did Klopp make at Dortmund that weren't seen as value for money? Which signings at Atletico did Simeone make that weren't value for money? If you don't like my examples please present your own examples of clubs doing what you want us to do and succeeding...

 

[DubaiSpur]

We had a net spend of around £20m in the 10/11 season (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/transfers/verein/148?saison_id=2010&pos=&detailpos=). We also signed Gallas on a free and that season and the next we had a fairly bloated squad most likely costing a fair bit in wages in addition to CL bonuses etc. The financial reports at the time had us breaking even including the CL money.

Our managers have been getting key players in. Redknapp clearly wanted Defoe and Palacios. He clearly wanted Crouch. He clearly wanted Parker. He got all of them. You can always keep asking for "one more, one more", but I honestly don't think it's fair. Ramos and Comolli also got their players. Under AVB/Baldini we spent the money available to spend seeing us break even again. I do think the transfer power was given slightly more to Baldini in the second window, I don't think that was a bad idea.

Which players did Rodgers sign that wasn't seen as value for money signings? Which signings did Klopp make at Dortmund that weren't seen as value for money? Which signings at Atletico did Simeone make that weren't value for money? If you don't like my examples please present your own examples of clubs doing what you want us to do and succeeding...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/transfers/verein/148?saison_id=2011&pos=&detailpos=

We made that net spend back the next season. Actually, scratch that, we made substantially more than we'd spent in 2011. However, when push came to shove (January 2012), and we needed that bit of investment to push us over the line, where was that money that had been thrown around with such abandon (30 million pound bids for Aguero, Dzeko, Rossi and Llorente) on the deadline day in 2011 to absolutely no avail? Harry needed a centre-back and a striker: he got two ageing free transfers, and what happened next was somewhat inevitable given that frugality. We'd made money on the previous season's transfers, yet didn't spend any, expecting Harry to secure CL football on the cheap.

It was well known that Ramos was displeased with having to enter the season stripped of Berbatov and Keane and forced to rely on Bent, Pavlyuchenko and Fraizer Campbell, and again, that is mostly public knowledge. Then, post Ramos and harry, came AVB, and I point you to my earlier posts for evidence of how we treated that man. Now Poch is the man in the dugout, and much the same thing seems to be happening.

Rodgers and 'value for money' signings don't fit in the same sentence: I'm not sure any of his signings would seem like 'value for money' to Levy. Lallana for 27 million wouldn't be a signing Levy would have allowed anyone to make: Joe Allen on 100k a week, likewise. Mamadou Sakho for 16 million certainly doesn't classify as 'value for money', and I'm not sure it did at the time either. And yet, Rodgers was afforded the understanding and freedom to pull off those deals, without interference: particularly in Joe Allen's case. Again, I'm not suggesting we spend on the level of Liverpool, or as heavily as Liverpool, or as frequently as we did in the early part of Levy's time here. I am suggesting that we back the man in charge now, for his first window, which is the most important one in his Spurs career. We didn't do that with AVB. We cannot afford to fail Poch the same way, else we'll have another supremely promising manager on the dump eighteen months for now and will be on the lookout for the next coach willing to use cheap alternatives to his primary targets to secure the CL football that is apparently an ironclad requirement of all managers at WHL.