Gareth Bale

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Below the belt.
If I wasn't a mod I'd complain.
Why not address the point instead of taking yet another cheap shot? I'm getting tired of them from a few people on this board...if you think it's biased, reply to the point I put forward. Stop taking cheap shots.

What's the point of addressing it? You clearly never think a Spurs player does anything wrong.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Find Gareth Bale saying this, and be sure to offer the whole interview with context.

Bale, now booked three times for simulation this season, said: “It’s the same thing every time. It’s the third time this season where I’ve been clipped and I’ve been booked for no *reason again and it’s just one of those things.

“I think the referees need to have to look a bit closer. It’s not something I’m doing, it’s people think I’m diving when there’s actually contact. If there is contact, then it is a penalty or a free-kick, so I can’t do anything about it.

“If there is contact, then I’ll fall over. What do you expect me to do? Hit my head on the floor. I put my hands down to protect myself. If people keep kicking me, I’m not going to stop going over because it’s a foul. I know I was fouled today.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/im-no-diver-insists-gareth-1509993

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

What's the point of addressing it? You clearly never think a Spurs player does anything wrong.

Out of order and without proof. I'm going to PM you so as this doesn't drag put in public any further.

 

[Superted]

Re: Gareth Bale

I honestly think Bales comments were taken out of context in that what people think he said was if there's going to be contact he will choose to go down, whereas what I think he meant was if there's contact and the law of physics determines that he'll go down, well there's not much he can do about it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

IF you'd bothered to address my point instead of another tedious patronising put down, then you'd note that I was saying EXACTLY what Raziel said a post later. I will repeat. The defender was NOWHERE NEAR THE BALL. He has to thus AVOID MAKING CONTACT. He made contact. There was contact. Look again, and again and again and again. Contact. Whether you feel Bale 'hung his leg out to make contact' or not is another story and becomes a matter of opinion. But there is contact. Undeniable.

Yeah, and the defender pulled his leg away. Bale was the one who made sure he made contact with the defender, not the other way round.

CONTACT DOES NOT EQUAL A FOUL.

Like I said before, it will be very interesting to see the reaction on GG if Suarez does the same thing on Sunday and wins a penalty. I'm guessing the reaction will be the opposite.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

Bale, now booked three times for simulation this season, said: “It’s the same thing every time. It’s the third time this season where I’ve been clipped and I’ve been booked for no *reason again and it’s just one of those things.

“I think the referees need to have to look a bit closer. It’s not something I’m doing, it’s people think I’m diving when there’s actually contact. If there is contact, then it is a penalty or a free-kick, so I can’t do anything about it.

“If there is contact, then I’ll fall over. What do you expect me to do? Hit my head on the floor. I put my hands down to protect myself. If people keep kicking me, I’m not going to stop going over because it’s a foul. I know I was fouled today.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/im-no-diver-insists-gareth-1509993

Yes.
He is saying that if there is contact, he is going to fall over, because contact causes him to fall over. He then goes on to explain that he tries to break his fall. what is so hard to understand. Note, he does not say 'go down'.

 

[Superted]

Re: Gareth Bale

Jurgen, I would,look at these 3 things:

1) who has control of the play. In the 3 in discussion (Inter, Villa, Pires), the attacker has control.

2) has the defender done anything to instigate the "dive". In each of the 3, yes either a bona fide tackle, or just abouts before withdrawing at the last second.

3) look at where the attacker would have been had the defender not done what they did in 2. In each of those, if 2 didn't happen, the attacker would be in an improved position for a goal scoring opportunity.

So if a "dive" does happen where all 3 are positive, well my rationale is the defender is a chump for making a stupid tackle in the first place. If it is a dive, and I accept Pires and Bale probably milk it, then it should be a foul.

And note re the yellow for the Inter player, the word "if". I think it should have been a penalty.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yes.
He is saying that if there is contact, he is going to fall over, because contact causes him to fall over. He then goes on to explain that he tries to break his fall. what is so hard to understand. Note, he does not say 'go down'.

Deano Austin got it spot on. You go to ground if you are forced to, not if "there's contact so I'll go to ground because I choose to."

Bale said "if there's contact, then it's a penalty or a free kick." I don't see how contact equals a foul.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yeah, and the defender pulled his leg away. Bale was the one who made sure he made contact with the defender, not the other way round.

CONTACT DOES NOT EQUAL A FOUL.

Like I said before, it will be very interesting to see the reaction on GG if Suarez does the same thing on Sunday and wins a penalty. I'm guessing the reaction will be the opposite.

Do you play football? Genuine question.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

Deano Austin got it spot on. You go to ground if you are forced to, not if "there's contact so I'll go to ground because I choose to."

Bale said "if there's contact, then it's a penalty or a free kick." I don't see how contact equals a foul.

Your opinion.
I believe that Bale has often been impeded whilst running at speed/cutting, and the challenge has brought him down.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Jurgen, I would,look at these 3 things:

1) who has control of the play. In the 3 in discussion (Inter, Villa, Pires), the attacker has control.

2) has the defender done anything to instigate the "dive". In each of the 3, yes either a bona fide tackle, or just abouts before withdrawing at the last second.

3) look at where the attacker would have been had the defender not done what they did in 2. In each of those, if 2 didn't happen, the attacker would be in an improved position for a goal scoring opportunity.

So if a "dive" does happen where all 3 are positive, well my rationale is the defender is a chump for making a stupid tackle in the first place. If it is a dive, and I accept Pires and Bale probably milk it, then it should be a foul.

And note re the yellow for the Inter player, the word "if". I think it should have been a penalty.

1. The attacker in both circumstances would have remained in control if they had stayed on their feet.

2. If a defender stops a player either by holding him, pulling a shirt, kicking etc then that is a foul. I don't class a defender pulling out of a challenge as a foul.

3. See my response to question 1

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Do you play football? Genuine question.

Yeah, I play up front. Been kicked hundreds of times in the box and outside, I choose to stay on my feet, I only go to ground if I have no choice i.e. I've lost my balance.

And I've seen players even at Sunday league level leave their foot in the hope that a defender or keeper will make contact, thus giving them an excuse to go down. I'll show you another example: [video=youtube;1GKXAKQY-0Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GKXAKQY-0Y[/video]

watch from about 27 seconds in

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Gareth Bale

Bale, now booked three times for simulation this season, said: “It’s the same thing every time. It’s the third time this season where I’ve been clipped and I’ve been booked for no *reason again and it’s just one of those things.

“I think the referees need to have to look a bit closer. It’s not something I’m doing, it’s people think I’m diving when there’s actually contact. If there is contact, then it is a penalty or a free-kick, so I can’t do anything about it.

“If there is contact, then I’ll fall over. What do you expect me to do? Hit my head on the floor. I put my hands down to protect myself. If people keep kicking me, I’m not going to stop going over because it’s a foul. I know I was fouled today.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/im-no-diver-insists-gareth-1509993

Disappointingly ambiguous comment, that. He needed to state categorically that he tries to stay on his feet and only goes down when it's unavoidable. On the face of it, to say 'if there is contact, then it is a penalty or a free-kick' is to invite ridicule. Contact alone is not enough, after all a shoulder charge is contact and that's allowed. Contact does not entitle you to go down, you only go down as a consequence of it being sufficient to prevent you staying on your feet.

 

[spurious]

Re: Gareth Bale

Disappointingly ambiguous comment, that. He needed to state categorically that he tries to stay on his feet and only goes down when it's unavoidable. On the face of it, to say 'if there is contact, then it is a penalty or a free-kick' is to invite ridicule. Contact alone is not enough, after all a shoulder charge is contact and that's allowed. Contact does not entitle you to go down, you only go down as a consequence of it being sufficient to prevent you staying on your feet.

In fairness though the comment was made straight after the game, and he was referring to getting clipped, i.e. he's gone past a player the ball's ahead of him and he gets clipped. In that context he's not saying that any contact is a foul, he's saying that if there's contact on him after he's gone past the opponent with the ball, i.e. the ball's already gone, the opponent hasn't played it, it's a foul. He's also talking about falling over after being clipped, i.e. losing his balance, rather than deliberately falling to the floor because he feels or anticipates contact. Then the last part of the comment relates to the accusation that he makes a meal of it when he falls to the ground after losing his balance as a result of being clipped. If you're running full pelt and you're clipped or tripped you're going to go flying and he's saying that he has to put his arms out to protect his head/shoulder etc - this is obvious. He's a tall guy, he's very fast, if he goes flying it's going to look dramatic.
It probably was a dive against Inter (although I've not seen it enough), but some of those earlier incidents including against Liverpool were definite fouls and he was unjustly punished.

 

[The Portugeezer]

Re: Gareth Bale

Top post.

To me, contact in itself isn't a foul. If an opponent stops you in any way, that's a foul. If you feel contact but could continue and decide to go down, like Bale did last night, you deserve a booking.

That's why it annoys me when I hear pundits say "He's entitled to go down". No he fudging isn't. You should only go down when you're forced down not when you decide to fling yourself to the floor. To me, it's cheating if you cause yourself to hit the deck.

If it's a foul, it should be foul whether you stay on your feet or go down. Unfortunately, players make this judgement impossible for refs because, human nature being what it is, they try and gain an advantage any way they can even if that involves cheating.

I have to disagree with this statement. It is not human nature to cheat it's human behaviour. Put any human being in a environment where there is competition in any aspect of society to gain differential advantage over others causes aberrant behaviour.

The notion that human beings are inherently corrupt is a fallacy. We are merely products of our environment. There's no such thing as human nature. There's human behaviour.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yeah, I play up front. Been kicked hundreds of times in the box and outside, I choose to stay on my feet, I only go to ground if I have no choice i.e. I've lost my balance.

And I've seen players even at Sunday league level leave their foot in the hope that a defender or keeper will make contact, thus giving them an excuse to go down. I'll show you another example: [video=youtube;1GKXAKQY-0Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GKXAKQY-0Y[/video]

watch from about 27 seconds in

Do you ever get questioned as to whether you could've kept your balance? Do you think every time you lose your balance the referee has to book someone for 'diving'? Should the defender who 'doesn't really make contact' or 'pulls out of the challenge' or 'doesn't get near the ball but accidently makes contact with the man' and then falls to the ground with a grimace also be booked for 'diving' or 'exaggerating the situation to avoid a booking/pen'?
I play upfront too. Sadly more prime Mickey Quinn than prime Mickey Owen, but I get goals and assists. Never had speed or skill close to Bale's, thus don't know what that's like.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Gareth Bale

To try and get this off the whole tedious 'did he/didnt he' diving thing (which I have sadly contribute to) how does everyone feel about Gareth going into Sunday's match?
I am personally very worried that he will get tacoted by Agger or Skrtel. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I see Rogers as the sort of manager who will detail someone to kick Bale.

I would even consider keeping him on the bench...thoughts?

 

[skyfarer]

Re: Gareth Bale

Christ, I hate it when they (read: Liverpool pundits) compare Bale and Suarez and conclude the only difference between them is Bale's Britishness, which apparently makes the media take it 'easy' on him. Bale to me is no different than Gerrard or Ashley Young or any number of divers in this league who will go down easy from time to time. He has never bitten opponents or taunted them with their skin color, or given fans the finger or gotten himself fined by his own club for dressing room fights. He's never even handballed to my knowledge, much less gotten away with it.

I want him to cut out the diving entirely, but people also love taking him apart for stupid crap like his haircut and heart celebration because he's a media darling and a shy boy who married his childhood sweetheart. I hope it fires him on to glory.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Gareth Bale

Christ, I hate it when they (read: Liverpool pundits) compare Bale and Suarez and conclude the only difference between them is Bale's Britishness, which apparently makes the media take it 'easy' on him. Bale to me is no different than Gerrard or Ashley Young or any number of divers in this league who will go down easy from time to time. He has never bitten opponents or taunted them with their skin color, or given fans the finger or gotten himself fined by his own club for dressing room fights. He's never even handballed to my knowledge, much less gotten away with it.

I want him to cut out the diving entirely, but people also love taking him apart for stupid crap like his haircut and heart celebration because he's a media darling and a shy boy who married his childhood sweetheart. I hope it fires him on to glory.

Take it as a massive compliment to Bale.

It's called jealousy.

 

[spasm]

Re: Gareth Bale

the only time i would go down is if there is a hot woman involved...