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Football and Homophobia

JPBB said:
The only logical conclusion given the positive message from PL is that both club and the Aurier accept the language was homophobic and he is remorseful.

You and the others that refuse to accept his words were homophobic can not be educated which puts you a little way behind Aurier on this matter.
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Not at all. Thats a big leap and assumption, not logical at all.

What is completely logical is that big public companies dont like bad PR, and will take steps to diffuse such situations.

What is completely logical is the club know how the move could be taken and want to smooth things over.

Whether or not they accept it as a slur, or whether or not they are remorseful cannot be inferred. Let alone logically deduced.


Your continuned accusations and statements about posters on the board are however becoming offensive and tiresome, as is your tone. And thats before the absence of actual body to your arguement.


From what I can see pretty well everyone has accepted his words could have been homophibic. As has been established the term used has more than a single meaning. As has also been pointed out, we are talking about another language as well. Because of this we cannot be certain he was being homophobic, or that it was a homophibic slur.

As has also been discussed is intent, did he mean it as a homophobic slur? Did he want to offend you? Or did he say something ignorant of its meaning or potential fall out? All valid questions to ask and things to potentially diffuse your persecution of him (and consequently this board).

Your reaction is not in line with the actual event. It is over the top.

Having used the internet before Ive seen similar style of argument. Ive also done it myself when Ive allowed myself to get wound up over something. I am pretty sure you have probably just dug yourself an almighty hole from which you cannot back out. I am also quite sure that were you to cool off for a couple of days and return to read this thread again your perception of the war you are currently waging, and the way you are addressing the board, would likely change.
 
The hole some have dug themselves into is this. ..

If you admit the Aurier's words are homophobic, you are agreeing with me.

And no one wants that...

So you continue your ludicrous assertion that use of that word followed by a negative portrayal of a gay sex act is not homophobic.

And you persist with your (in the real world) discredited argument (the rehash of racists' N-word rappers argument). Even after the Club and Aurier engage with LGBT groups and accept that the language was homophobic and he is remorseful.
 
Are you psychic? Have you seen inside his head and know exactly what he meant?

If not, your conviciton in your view is frankly hilarious.

Everyone else has stated it could well have been homophobic, just as it could well have been something else. They accept there are shades of grey.

Do you really operate only in black and white in everything you say and do? Are you a robot? I doubt it, which is why your position being so entrenched is strange to say the least. (and take a look at your input to the Victimpool thread, makes your moral superiority here somewhat "interesting").

Youve failed to actually counter any of the valid arguments put forth. Arguments which serve only to counter your ABSOLUTE CONVICTION, not to actually say his action was "100% not homophobic". Shades of grey, not black and white.

Youve simply tried to shout the same absolutes over anyone willing to have a conversation, and descended more and more into insulting those who do not agree with you. Which, lets be honest, doesnt really do you or your argument any good at all.

I can see @GinolaGinolaGinola was right. Not about the cheese thing, I mean, maybe you are, but Ive no way of knowing. He is right about you going on and on without any real point to it. So I think Ill call it a day here.

Feel free to get the last word in, at which point we can say you win the internet and everyone goes home happy.
 
i know you don't accept this but it is accepted everywhere but her. the test for a hate crimes is not his intent. It is how others perceive it and whther that is reasonable.

The issue is not what Aurier's intention was, it is what my or others perception is, and I think the language is homophobic (as do others), was that reasonable? Yes. Why? Because many other people as think it was homophobic including PL.

Therefore his words are homophobic. To used your measure 100% homophobic. 100% certain.

It is a fact. Not an opinion.

Aurier has accepted this. it is only this board that lives in the dark ages and deny that his words were homophobic
 
Aurier's words wouldn't stand up in a court of law as a hate crime, it would be unreasonable to say the use of a term which has multiple meanings (in french) was homophobia. The words were used against Blanc not because he is gay, or otherwise, but simply to disparage his management. Whereas others in the LGBT community look to educate, include, move forward, JPBB seems stuck finding and focusing on offence. You're left confused: is JPBB anti-homophobia or actually rather relishes it?
 
JPBB said:
i know you don't accept this but it is accepted everywhere but her. the test for a hate crimes is not his intent. It is how others perceive it and whther that is reasonable.

The issue is not what Aurier's intention was, it is what my or others perception is, and I think the language is homophobic (as do others), was that reasonable? Yes. Why? Because many other people as think it was homophobic including PL.

Therefore his words are homophobic. To used your measure 100% homophobic. 100% certain.

It is a fact. Not an opinion.

Aurier has accepted this. it is only this board that lives in the dark ages and deny that his words were homophobic
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I think that's the issue. You're not reasonable. Which undermines your position. The use of a term with multiple meanings is a shade of grey. It is not 100% as you maintain, but you're not able to look at nuances or be open minded. To me that is not reasonable, inclusive or positive, in this instance your intransigence is divisive.
 
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@JPBB you've said to me and others, I'm sorry I made you so angry. Milo, myself...you didn't make us angry. I didn't even comment on it until now. Often people displace their emotions onto others. You clearly are angry. Maybe you can tell us what makes you so angry here. The freaks on this board are incredibly supportive when people are open, honest, and lay their own personal motivations and feelings out.
 
JPBB said:
So you continue your ludicrous assertion that use of that word followed by a negative portrayal of a gay sex act is not homophobic.

And you persist with your (in the real world) discredited argument (the rehash of racists' N-word rappers argument). Even after the Club and Aurier engage with LGBT groups and accept that the language was homophobic and he is remorseful.
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1) When did the club and Aurier engage with LGBT groups? That would be most enlightening to witness - please do let me know where this happened and where they have publicly accepted that the language was homophobic (whatever that means).

2) Is it your own assertion that ANY negative portrayal of a gay sex act is automatically homophobic?
 
By the way, if you're worried about replying to my request for a homophobia definition because you think I shall flippantly reply with the Peter Kay joke, then I assure you that I will not.
 
JPBB said:
i know you don't accept this but it is accepted everywhere but her. the test for a hate crimes is not his intent. It is how others perceive it and whther that is reasonable.

The issue is not what Aurier's intention was, it is what my or others perception is, and I think the language is homophobic (as do others), was that reasonable? Yes. Why? Because many other people as think it was homophobic including PL.

Therefore his words are homophobic. To used your measure 100% homophobic. 100% certain.

It is a fact. Not an opinion.

Aurier has accepted this. it is only this board that lives in the dark ages and deny that his words were homophobic
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Well it is not reasonable to say he is homophobic based on one incident where the words he used can be used in another context.

As for how people perceive things, well then you will end up in a situation where everyone can say they are offended by something and no one can say anything.
 
SpurMeUp said:
@JPBB you've said to me and others, I'm sorry I made you so angry. Milo, myself...you didn't make us angry. I didn't even comment on it until now. Often people displace their emotions onto others. You clearly are angry. Maybe you can tell us what makes you so angry here. The freaks on this board are incredibly supportive when people are open, honest, and lay their own personal motivations and feelings out.
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Of course. I am angry. Thank you for concern. I am rather touched by your small act of kindness.

Nevertheless it does not invalidate my argument that Aurier's comments were indisputably homophobic
 
the thing is, regardless of whether it is merited or not, I felt offended when I read JPBB's equivocation of racism (specifically black people in america who were subject to slavery) with Aurier's alleged homophobia.

Following this logic, JPBB has offended me because of race, and has automatically committed a hate crime in public speech on the internet. Continuing to follow this logic, this makes JPBB a racist.

I expect you to ask the Club for opportunities to engage with it's BME initiatives in future, in order to prove that you are not a racist.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Aurier's words wouldn't stand up in a court of law as a hate crime, it would be unreasonable to say the use of a term which has multiple meanings (in french) was homophobia. The words were used against Blanc not because he is gay, or otherwise, but simply to disparage his management. Whereas others in the LGBT community look to educate, include, move forward, JPBB seems stuck finding and focusing on offence. You're left confused: is JPBB anti-homophobia or actually rather relishes it?
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I am speak with some authority on this. If this case, ever did get to a UK court, (assuming a complaint, jurisdiction etc), it is inevitable that he would be convicted. Here is why

taking your argument at it's highest, it is pathetically weak, because directly after his uses the word, he portrays a gay sex act negatively.

However, you would also be faced with the case law being read in open court concerning the test (repeated on here many times) and the N-word case law which would negate all your arguments.

You would lose in the magistrates courts.

You would then appeal to the crown court where you lose again. (you would be many ten of thousands of pounds in the hole by now)

Finally you might appeal to a higher court to effectively create new case law. However, your argument is so pathetic and with no realistic chance of success that I doubt they would allow it to save you from yourself and to stop wasting valuable court time.

Feel free to test this by using Aurier's words about me on twitter and i will make a complaint to the police and we'll see how far you get (this is not a serious suggestion)
 
benp said:
the thing is, regardless of whether it is merited or not, I felt offended when I read JPBB's equivocation of racism (specifically black people in america who were subject to slavery) with Aurier's alleged homophobia.

Following this logic, JPBB has offended me because of race, and has automatically committed a hate crime in public speech on the internet. Continuing to follow this logic, this makes JPBB a racist.

I expect you to ask the Club for opportunities to engage with it's BME initiatives in future, in order to prove that you are not a racist.
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Ben - this is a serious accusation. I can not see immediately where you think I have been racist. Do you mean where I have discussed how the N-word case law is relevant? Or where I suggest that the zero tolerance of racism on here should be applied to homophobia? Or are you flippantly using racism to make a point which could have been made without belittling racism?

So Ben, I am listening. Educate me about my racist language.
 
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JPBB said:
I disagree. There is a cult-like quality to Liverpool fans which no other club has.

Should you dare to question the team's performance or that Liverpool are not the most talented and about to be successful team in the World (next season) , they will turn on you. Groups of them attack you for being a bedwetter.

Should you dare to question Klopp's ability, or even suggest that Rodgers was badly treated, you will be banned.

You must stay on message. Or you will be ostracised.

The message is simple. They are being cheated by a Rag conspiracy, the weather, bad luck, teams trying too hard, plastic clubs, the FA, Sky, the Sun, the owners. you name it and it is used to justify why Liverpool are not sitting at the top table. (but they will be next year)

They are victims.

Black armbands all round!
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JPBB said:
Of course, I will substitute "At last there are some more confident voices about who we are" for "At last we are finding a confident voice about who we are."

However, I do not accept that questioning Liverpool Football Club's version of history and their view of relative merits of Liverpool and Spurs has equivalence with racism, misogyny, anti-semitism or homophobia.

But it raises the question that if the crimes of Heysel were committed in the name of, for instance, the National Front rather than Liverpool Football Club would society be so quick to forgive those deaths?
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JPBB said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/887361139679612929

Wow

I will be putting on my black armband. lighting some candles and playing YNWA at full volume

Will they ever learn?

(why are they all brick for brains, not a brain cell between them? And they are all midgets?)
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Just some if the bile posted by our moral superior.
I particularly like the midget one, tut tut.
 
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