Financial Fair Play

[elltrev]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

30 years ago is a long time. It's a different game now in many regards. Football is massive now. It's a financial goldmine, people will do anything to get a piece of it, including our own FA.



They're bankrolled by the pharmaceutical company Bayer. There is no better way of advertising in football than changing the team's name! Leverkusen and Salzburg are very much detested in Germany, but that won't stop it happening in England.

This is part of the problem. It's ridiclous that someone like David Dein can hold simultaneous positions at a PL club and the FA.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Leverkusen are a little bit different to the Red Bull sides, their origin is similar to PSV in that they started as a works team rather than being taken over later.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Eh. Football is slowly waking up to its problems. That a team could spend a billion pounds of some human-rights-abusing dictator's money and storm to the title was a serious one, and that's now being dealt with. The next step will be a revenue-sharing arrangement, which will happen in time. The PL isn't stupid, and the execs running it (via their TV and commercial deals) know that the only reason it's ranked higher than the Bundesliga, La Liga et al (with their superior technical players and stadium atmospheres) is because it's competitive and relatively unpredictable. If that changes, viewing figures will start decreasing, and the TV men will start losing money. When that happens, they will pressure the PL to act.

 

[camspur]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Leverkusen are a little bit different to the Red Bull sides, their origin is similar to PSV in that they started as a works team rather than being taken over later.

That's correct Bayer Leverkusen are the architypal "works" team gone professional, they started of as a team made up of factory workers and eventually turned pro over the years, Wolfsburg are the same being the VW factory team. You can add Sochaux in france as another in the list of "works" teams.

There's absolutely no bankrolling involved at all as these clubs are run as separate entities to their factory roots, unlike the Red Bull teams that are purely RedBull owned and bankrolled.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Wolfsburg been bankrolled pretty well in recent years, VW being their owner and main sponsor. Wolfsburg is a relatively small town.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Eh. Football is slowly waking up to its problems. That a team could spend a billion pounds of some human-rights-abusing dictator's money and storm to the title was a serious one, and that's now being dealt with. The next step will be a revenue-sharing arrangement, which will happen in time. The PL isn't stupid, and the execs running it (via their TV and commercial deals) know that the only reason it's ranked higher than the Bundesliga, La Liga et al (with their superior technical players and stadium atmospheres) is because it's competitive and relatively unpredictable. If that changes, viewing figures will start decreasing, and the TV men will start losing money. When that happens, they will pressure the PL to act.

I wish that were so.

But it won't happen, I'm afraid. At least, not to any meaningful extent.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

I can't see revenue sharing ever coming in, would Tesco's revenue share with the Co-Op, I don't see how its legally enforceable

 

[indianspur]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Eh. Football is slowly waking up to its problems. That a team could spend a billion pounds of some human-rights-abusing dictator's money and storm to the title was a serious one, and that's now being dealt with. The next step will be a revenue-sharing arrangement, which will happen in time. The PL isn't stupid, and the execs running it (via their TV and commercial deals) know that the only reason it's ranked higher than the Bundesliga, La Liga et al (with their superior technical players and stadium atmospheres) is because it's competitive and relatively unpredictable. If that changes, viewing figures will start decreasing, and the TV men will start losing money. When that happens, they will pressure the PL to act.

really??

in the last 15-20 years its mainly been Man U, Chelsea and Arse that have won all the major domestic prizes

in the 20 years of the premier league, the 3 above have won the league title 18 (EIGHTEEN) times between them

16 of the last 20 Fa cup finals have been won by the trio above

fcuking boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[indianspur]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

between 1960 and 1980, there were 10 different winners of the League championship in those 20 years

Liverpool -7
Leeds -2
Man U -2
Everton -2
Derby -2
Tottenham-1
Arsenal -1
Forest -1
Emirates Marketing Project -1
Ipswich -1

Now thats fcuking exciting and unpredictable

 

[indianspur]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

FFP is a load of twaddle. The super clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern Munich, Man Utd etc) must be pi$$ing themselves with laughter

 

[Superhudd]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

I can't see revenue sharing ever coming in, would Tesco's revenue share with the Co-Op, I don't see how its legally enforceable

It happens in the NFL. The richer teams subsidise the smaller teams. So if a Dallas/Patriot fan buys a Cap, part of profit will find its way to the Bengals. Also gates in the NFL are split 60-40.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

It happens in the NFL. The richer teams subsidise the smaller teams. So if a Dallas/Patriot fan buys a Cap, part of profit will find its way to the Bengals.

there are a lot of things that happen in the NFL which would never get past european laws

 

[Superhudd]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

there are a lot of things that happen in the NFL which would never get past european laws

If FFP gets past, so would Revenue sharing. Its about placing in the rules and everyone abiding by them rules. In a sense the Premier League has revenue sharing already with its Television money. At the beginning of the season Liverpool tried to get the right to search its own overseas TV rights, akin to Barcelona and Madrid getting all the money in Spain. The Premier League clubs knocked them back and to stick with the revenue sharing option.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Agreed, but at the same time I do hate Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, PSG etc for the way that they have been allowed to spend obscene amounts of money that the club itself hasn't earned. So for all the problems with FPP, I think the status quo was far from acceptable too. Which is why, in an ideal world, I'd like to see (in combination with the FPP rules) a form of tax on merchandise, sponsorship, gate receipts etc of the elite teams, which could either go towards smaller clubs or to development projects in the local area. It's disgusting how much money is in the game and how much money players get paid, whilst the local areas for some clubs remain poor and undeveloped and ticket and shirt prices continue to rise. I know football clubs already dedicate more of their revenues to this kind of thing than the average business, but football clubs are / should be more a part of their local community than businesses are.

Agreed. In combination with the FFP which prevents sugar daddies from financially doping a club, some form of "luxury tax" to level the playing the field between ManU and the rest of the league should be brought in so that they can't keep cherry picking the best players from the rest of the Premiership as they have for most of the past 20 years.

The method used by the NBA seems like a pretty good one, whereby there is a squad salary cap and for every dollar over that limit a team spends they have to pay a $1 tax which is then redistributed to the clubs which don't overspend. If this was implemented in the Premier League with a cap of say £80million then the Luxury Tax Bills for 2011/12 would have been:

Chelsea = £110m
Emirates Marketing Project = £94m
Manchester United = £73m
Liverpool = £55m
ARSEnal = £44m
Tottenham = £11m
Aston Villa = £3m

Such a system would have to be implemented across Europe by UEFA in order to work but maybe if they got a cut of the tax revenue for themselves to use for their own projects (similar to the system used in MLB) then Platini and co might consider it...

Barcelona = £142m
Real Madrid = £114m
AC Milan = £91m
Bayern Munich = £51m

 

[braineclipse]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

I don't think FFP was put in place to make leagues more competitive and make sure smaller clubs had more of a chance to get into the top positions. It will probably slightly strengthen the grip the top clubs have on the rest of the league, but nowhere near as much as the financial development in football in the last 20 years has already done. Does anyone really think that clubs like United, Real or Barca would fall away at this point if not for the FFP regulations?

FFP was put in place to protect the clubs from crazy investors and to prevent situations like what happened at Pompey, the debt clubs like Valencia find themselves in etc. There was an overview of how many clubs in Europe that were in massive (relative to their turnovers) debt back when FFP was introduced. There were a lot of clubs in trouble and importantly a lot of clubs outside the top of their respective leagues.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Agreed. In combination with the FFP which prevents sugar daddies from financially doping a club, some form of "luxury tax" to level the playing the field between ManU and the rest of the league should be brought in so that they can't keep cherry picking the best players from the rest of the Premiership as they have for most of the past 20 years.

The method used by the NBA seems like a pretty good one, whereby there is a squad salary cap and for every dollar over that limit a team spends they have to pay a $1 tax which is then redistributed to the clubs which don't overspend. If this was implemented in the Premier League with a cap of say £80million then the Luxury Tax Bills for 2011/12 would have been:

Chelsea = £110m
Emirates Marketing Project = £94m
Manchester United = £73m
Liverpool = £55m
ARSEnal = £44m
Tottenham = £11m
Aston Villa = £3m

Such a system would have to be implemented across Europe by UEFA in order to work but maybe if they got a cut of the tax revenue for themselves to use for their own projects (similar to the system used in MLB) then Platini and co might consider it...

Barcelona = £142m
Real Madrid = £114m
AC Milan = £91m
Bayern Munich = £51m

I think that would be a great solution. Not going to happen though.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

If FFP gets past, so would Revenue sharing. Its about placing in the rules and everyone abiding by them rules. In a sense the Premier League has revenue sharing already with its Television money. At the beginning of the season Liverpool tried to get the right to search its own overseas TV rights, akin to Barcelona and Madrid getting all the money in Spain. The Premier League clubs knocked them back and to stick with the revenue sharing option.

A relatively equitable division of broadcasting revenues is one thing.

But there won't be any further revenue sharing.

FFP was agreed because it suits the existing elite clubs. Revenue sharing will not.

And I'm not too confident that the likes of Man Utd won't start making noises (and threats) about getting a larger slice of the TV pie some time in the future.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

A relatively equitable division of broadcasting revenues is one thing.

But there won't be any further revenue sharing.

FFP was agreed because it suits the existing elite clubs. Revenue sharing will not.

And I'm not too confident that the likes of Man Utd won't start making noises (and threats) about getting a larger slice of the TV pie some time in the future.

A development towards a more top heavy system as seen in Spain (and Scotland I think) seems much more likely than a development the other way. The top clubs have so much power that they won't allow it to change in a way that goes against their interest and it does seem likely that they could force a move to their benefit.

Edit: In other words I completely agree with you

 

[Wriggly]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Agreed. In combination with the FFP which prevents sugar daddies from financially doping a club, some form of "luxury tax" to level the playing the field between ManU and the rest of the league should be brought in so that they can't keep cherry picking the best players from the rest of the Premiership as they have for most of the past 20 years.

The method used by the NBA seems like a pretty good one, whereby there is a squad salary cap and for every dollar over that limit a team spends they have to pay a $1 tax which is then redistributed to the clubs which don't overspend. If this was implemented in the Premier League with a cap of say £80million then the Luxury Tax Bills for 2011/12 would have been:

Chelsea = £110m
Emirates Marketing Project = £94m
Manchester United = £73m
Liverpool = £55m
ARSEnal = £44m
Tottenham = £11m
Aston Villa = £3m

Such a system would have to be implemented across Europe by UEFA in order to work but maybe if they got a cut of the tax revenue for themselves to use for their own projects (similar to the system used in MLB) then Platini and co might consider it...

Barcelona = £142m
Real Madrid = £114m
AC Milan = £91m
Bayern Munich = £51m

You would create a gap between the top teams and the bottom teams doing that. Even the bottom teams in the prem would be so much richer than the championship teams. What about them ? and the rest of the leagues ? The gap would get much bigger. It's fine if you have a big team mentality but that would only widen the gap, something that FFP itself it in place trying to stop (one of the reasons).

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

FFP was put in place to protect the clubs from crazy investors and to prevent situations like what happened at Pompey, the debt clubs like Valencia find themselves in etc. There was an overview of how many clubs in Europe that were in massive (relative to their turnovers) debt back when FFP was introduced. There were a lot of clubs in trouble and importantly a lot of clubs outside the top of their respective leagues.

If UEFA / the Premier League could have devised rules that merely furthered this aim, then I could have wholeheartedly supported them. That's exactly what FFP should be about.