FIFA: Destroying Football Since 1904

[Grays_1890]

As much of the conversation is about players being worn out by the domestic season before the international tournament even starts, particularly in England. In terms of the World Cup I think it could be beneficial, particularly if the alternative is playing the games in scorching heat too.

I'm sure players will manage with half a domestic season as "prep" for an international tournament. Wanting to get game time before the World Cup will be an issue in the first half of the season instead of the second one. Doesn't really change anything.

But then you ruin a domestic game by clubs having half baked players when they get back??

This argument is just to justify placing square pegs into round holes and I do not buy it. If Qatar can not host a summer WC and it was not covered and sold during the bidding process as a winter WC then they should have never been awarded it. You could argue that such movement of goal posts make the original bid redundant and it should therefore be put back out to tender.....

 

[machotime]

Season to start in mid July during the summer holidays and end in the beginning of June I guess

 

[braineclipse]

Can't imagine any clubs particularly in favour of letting their best players go abroad to play a three week tournament mid season. What if anyone's star player comes back injured?

Some teams will potentially have half their squad competing in the WC, while others will have all their players back home, resting and practicing for the second half of the season. How is that fair? At least after a summer WC there is a one-one and a half month break before the seaon starts. That would be impossible to do mid season in addition to the WC month.

Also; what about preparation time - should that be added to the four weeks the tournament lasts? Three weeks of preparation before the start of the WC in, what, early December?

Would this mean no Boxing day fixture in the PL? A big **** you to years and years of traditional Christmas fixtures?

I can see plenty of PL club lawyers being at work already. I think this is a bloody disgrace, with the only one benefitting from it, is the FA delegates whose wealth is now even bigger from more brown envelopes.

Injuries is the same as all international fixtures and to some extent the same as international tournaments as they already are.

It's not really fair. It's not all always fair. It's quite widely accepted that teams with many teams that go far in a World Cup will struggle to get those players back to full fitness for the new season already. Is that fair? For most domestic competitions the teams will have players returning at the same time.

I'm sure there will be some preparation time needed, but unlike the traditional setup the players shouldn't need as long to get ready as they won't be worn down by a long domestic season and European fixtures.

Not really a **** you, but a compromise the way I see it. If it happens it would be the first time the big European leagues had to adjust their schedules to accommodate a World Cup? What a massive **** you! (sarcasm) Seems like a rather small insult compared to saying to regions of the world that if they want to host the World Cup they will have to do so indoors or change their climate as the World Cup is only going to be held at one specific time of year due to the importance of the large European leagues.

"Oh noes, we've never had to adjust before and now we have to. How unfair! I'm gonna go to my room."

 

[braineclipse]

But then you ruin a domestic game by clubs having half baked players when they get back??

This argument is just to justify placing square pegs into round holes and I do not buy it. If Qatar can not host a summer WC and it was not covered and sold during the bidding process as a winter WC then they should have never been awarded it. You could argue that such movement of goal posts make the original bid redundant and it should therefore be put back out to tender.....

For most of the leagues only a couple of players at each team will go really far in the World Cup. For the rest it will be a mid season break. I don't know how you can claim to know that it will ruin a domestic league, it could also have a positive effect.

For a couple of nations that go really far you could see one or two teams that have a lot of internationals in those teams that could be set back a bit. Real Madrid and Barca in Spain of course, Bayern and Dortmund in Germany and possibly Manu in England. Most big teams have players from all over though. I think it will be much less on an issue than you think and at the very least it's utterly premature to call this "ruining a domestic game".

I have no idea what they were sold on. As I've said before the Quatar decision is strange for other reasons. Playing the tournament in the winter though I don't see as a big issue. Seems like a lot of knee jerk reactions to change just because there's some change that people aren't used to.

Season to start in mid July during the summer holidays and end in the beginning of June I guess

Yeah. At the end of the season the same number of games will have been played by the same number of players. Stretching the season out a bit could have a positive or a negative effect, too many factors to know for sure right now I would say. Regardless it seems like a rather small adjustment to have to make.

 

[Robbo]

Injuries is the same as all international fixtures and to some extent the same as international tournaments as they already are.

It's not really fair. It's not all always fair. It's quite widely accepted that teams with many teams that go far in a World Cup will struggle to get those players back to full fitness for the new season already. Is that fair? For most domestic competitions the teams will have players returning at the same time.

I'm sure there will be some preparation time needed, but unlike the traditional setup the players shouldn't need as long to get ready as they won't be worn down by a long domestic season and European fixtures.

Not really a **** you, but a compromise the way I see it. If it happens it would be the first time the big European leagues had to adjust their schedules to accommodate a World Cup? What a massive **** you! (sarcasm) Seems like a rather small insult compared to saying to regions of the world that if they want to host the World Cup they will have to do so indoors or change their climate as the World Cup is only going to be held at one specific time of year due to the importance of the large European leagues.

"Oh noes, we've never had to adjust before and now we have to. How unfair! I'm gonna go to my room."

A billion dollar compromise, you mean - only not for the compromised (clubs and supporters), but for corruption driven FIFA.

This whole thing is a shambles, because anyone with half a brain knew what the temperature is like in Quatar in June/July, yet everyone involved in the decision simply disregards these arguments until it's too late to give the WC to someone else...and then they decide to make the very controvercial shift to a winter time WC.

And as for fairness; you can't compare the 1,5 months restitution time between the normal WC and the new season, to a potential week (?) from the end of this winter WC and the second half of the season. It will affect some clubs more than others, much more so than a normal WC, and I'm not sure all clubs will be very happy about having a handful of tired players coming back from the WC while their competitors in practice have had an extra off season with recovery and training.

If you are unable to arrange a multi-billion dollar football tournament at the time it is supposed to be held, and at the scale it is supposed to be held, then sorry - no go. It might be unfair, but that's life. We'll never have Winter Olympics in Barbados either, as we should never have allowed Quatar to buy the 2022 WC.

 

[Raziel]

I don't see what the problem is?

I can see some of the issues with giving it to Quatar in the first place, although I think they've been overstated. Having the tournament in November-January doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Well, outside of just the football issues, they have just opened a legal can of worms.

Every country that bid can claim they bid for a summer wc and fifa changed the rules/guidelines post bid, which considering that bids are multi-million dollar processes, could get interesting.

 

[chancer]

The Al Thani dynasty has been ruling Qatar since the family house was established in 1825.[40] There is no independent legislature, and political parties are forbidden.[41] Parliamentary elections, which were originally promised for 2005, have been postponed indefinitely.[41]

Qatar has the highest GDP per capita in the world as of 2012, according to the CIA World Factbook[83] and approximately 14% of households are dollar millionaires.[84] It relies heavily on foreign labor to grow its economy, to the extent that migrant workers comprise 94% of the workforce

Under the provisions of Qatar's sponsorship law, sponsors have the unilateral power to cancel workers' residency permits, deny workers' ability to change employers, report a worker as "absconded" to police authorities, and deny permission to leave the country.[50] As a result, sponsors may restrict workers’ movements and workers may be afraid to report abuses or claim their rights.[50] According to the ITUC, the visa sponsorship system allows the exaction of forced labour by making it difficult for a migrant worker to leave an abusive employer or travel overseas without permission.[51] Qatar also does not maintain wage standards for its immigrant labor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar

Lessons we get to learn here:

1. Feudal dictatorships are AOK within FIFA's football family

2. The only people who work in Qatar are the slave labourers brought in from neighbouring regions to do things like, for example, build sport stadiums. (Plenty of time for the native population to go watch football I suppose!)

3. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ can get you anything you want, including a seat at the table with polite society who won't ask too many questions snice you're buying the Champagne.


The whole thing is a fukking obscenity.

 

[Grays_1890]

Well, outside of just the football issues, they have just opened a legal can of worms.

Every country that bid can claim they bid for a summer wc and fifa changed the rules/guidelines post bid, which considering that bids are multi-million dollar processes, could get interesting.

Exactly one of the key points I think.

Its a legal tender and they have moved the goalposts by promising at the time to be able to meet all the key points then saying after "Actually we can not fulfill the original proposal"

"We bid for the 2022 FIFA World Cup in summer and are fully committed and working hard to deliver on these promises,"

Surely it makes a mockery of the application system?? You award a tournament based on being able to meet certain criteria and by awarding it to a country that fulfills the requirements to its fullest? If you win a contract based on meeting certain criteria and then say "actually guys we cant do that now" its a breach of the reason you got it?

ALSO if Qatar had originally come to the table during the bidding process and said "this won't be a summer WC but winter" where would they have come in the results?? Honestly?

 

[braineclipse]

A billion dollar compromise, you mean - only not for the compromised (clubs and supporters), but for corruption driven FIFA.

This whole thing is a shambles, because anyone with half a brain knew what the temperature is like in Quatar in June/July, yet everyone involved in the decision simply disregards these arguments until it's too late to give the WC to someone else...and then they decide to make the very controvercial shift to a winter time WC.

And as for fairness; you can't compare the 1,5 months restitution time between the normal WC and the new season, to a potential week (?) from the end of this winter WC and the second half of the season. It will affect some clubs more than others, much more so than a normal WC, and I'm not sure all clubs will be very happy about having a handful of tired players coming back from the WC while their competitors in practice have had an extra off season with recovery and training.

If you are unable to arrange a multi-billion dollar football tournament at the time it is supposed to be held, and at the scale it is supposed to be held, then sorry - no go. It might be unfair, but that's life. We'll never have Winter Olympics in Barbados either, as we should never have allowed Quatar to buy the 2022 WC.

Where are you getting the billion dollars from?

Most clubs will be at a level competing with other clubs in a similar situation. It's not like West Ham will all of a sudden overtake Emirates Marketing Project in the league because of this. Emirates Marketing Project will have loads of internationals as will the other top clubs, clubs near the bottom will have relatively few.

I wasn't aware that a final decision had previously been made to host it in the summer, if so it's obviously not good to change it late. I'm arguing more against the uproar of the idea of hosting the World Cup in the (northern hemisphere) winter.

 

[braineclipse]

Well, outside of just the football issues, they have just opened a legal can of worms.

Every country that bid can claim they bid for a summer wc and fifa changed the rules/guidelines post bid, which considering that bids are multi-million dollar processes, could get interesting.

Is that really the issue people are having with this? The league problems it may cause FIFA in the future? Is that what people are worried about?

 

[braineclipse]

Exactly one of the key points I think.

Its a legal tender and they have moved the goalposts by promising at the time to be able to meet all the key points then saying after "Actually we can not fulfill the original proposal"

"We bid for the 2022 FIFA World Cup in summer and are fully committed and working hard to deliver on these promises,"

Surely it makes a mockery of the application system?? You award a tournament based on being able to meet certain criteria and by awarding it to a country that fulfills the requirements to its fullest? If you win a contract based on meeting certain criteria and then say "actually guys we cant do that now" its a breach of the reason you got it?

ALSO if Qatar had originally come to the table during the bidding process and said "this won't be a summer WC but winter" where would they have come in the results?? Honestly?

See chancer's post for the answer. They didn't get this tournament based on being the fair and square best bid.

 

[clevelandspur]

This is a ****ing disgrace, the whole Wc bid for them was filled with corruption now it will **** up club seasons everywhere. I have a growing suspicion that the 2022 World Cup will be moved to USA and played in the summer.

 

[Baleforce]

lets not forget that this effects central european clubs more than many others

many leagues have a football season at a different time of year to us who have to put up with this for most world cups anyway, only fair that it gets shared around imo

 

[Rossi22]

Between Nov 15 and Jan 15, we've played 10 league games, 2 Europa League games, 1 League Cup and 1 FA Cup game. That's a lot of games lost, not sure how you're going to fit them all back in. Probably just better off scrapping the 22/23 season and just keep the cups.

 

[Notmegov]

I like change, will be interesting to see how the Leagues handle it.

 

[SUIYHA]

This sets a very dangerous precedent if it's allowed to go ahead. Could countries in the Southern Hemisphere get the option of moving the World Cup to a warmer time of year for them too when it would be better for tourism?

It's quite funny how many reasons keep coming up to NOT host the World Cup in Qatar that keep getting ignored. Unsuitable weather, human rights abuses, lack of infrastructure, very small country and indigenous population therefore no legacy to be had from it, homosexuality illegal, no alcohol, if Israel qualify their fans won't be able to enter the country....this is a complete and utter farce. And it needs to be boycotted.

If votes have been bought, they will most likely stay bought, unless the show can't take place. I don't know who will have the balls to stand up first, but what it will take is the FA from a major country refusing to take part, or even better, the Prime Minister/President of a country forbidding their team from participating. You'd hope that if somebody steps up, other world leaders would follow and before you know it, nobody is taking part and FIFA have no choice but to cancel it.

 

[clevelandspur]

This sets a very dangerous precedent if it's allowed to go ahead. Could countries in the Southern Hemisphere get the option of moving the World Cup to a warmer time of year for them too when it would be better for tourism?

It's quite funny how many reasons keep coming up to NOT host the World Cup in Qatar that keep getting ignored. Unsuitable weather, human rights abuses, lack of infrastructure, very small country and indigenous population therefore no legacy to be had from it, homosexuality illegal, no alcohol, if Israel qualify their fans won't be able to enter the country....this is a complete and utter farce. And it needs to be boycotted.

If votes have been bought, they will most likely stay bought, unless the show can't take place. I don't know who will have the balls to stand up first, but what it will take is the FA from a major country refusing to take part, or even better, the Prime Minister/President of a country forbidding their team from participating. You'd hope that if somebody steps up, other world leaders would follow and before you know it, nobody is taking part and FIFA have no choice but to cancel it.

=D> Spot on!

 

[Danners9]

Possibly. To me that doesn't qualify "messing up the league seasons" though.

Sorry if my wording upset or confused you. I'll have someone check it for hyperbole next time.

They would have to change the beginning and ending of the season for the one before and the one after, as well as the actual season it happens in the middle of. You can't have players playing games until the week before it starts. Maybe they would finish in November, have the WC in December, and then restart the season towards the end of January. That means the season runs until end of June, and the next one is meant to start in August? Not sure that'll happen. 2020/21 starts in July and finishes in April. 2021/22 runs July-November/January-June. 2022/23 runs September-June. That season in the middle is the real mess.

Plus of course it is still quite hot in Qatar in winter, just not as hot. And all the human rights violations. And the bribes for winning the bid for a summer tournament and playing it in winter. So yeah, boycott it.

 

[clownfoot]

Pity it wasn't this winter just gone, Walcott could have got a game

 

[Modric THFC]

What's wrong with holding it in Winter?
There's a load of leagues that run on a calendar year and not from the end of one summer to the start of the next.
Why not suit them for a change?