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Eric Dier
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
That is a great strike but not a patch on Matics strike.
I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
If we're to get to the very top level we can't have someone of Wanyama's attacking speed in the team. He's a perfectly serviceable passer but he just doesn't have the vision and speed of thought in an attacking sense that our other players do.
Dier isn't exactly Pirlo on the ball, but he has the team ticking much better when he's in that role. Ideally we'd find someone with both attributes rolled into one, but as we're not at that level yet I'd far rather have the attacking ability than the marginal increase in defensive ability.
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Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Could be argued it was better because it was placed. Matic just put his foot through the ball in the hope it would find the goal and got lucky.
Matic has scored goals like that before though, might not be a consistent scorer but that's harsh to just brand it lucky....
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
So you're saying he picked that exact spot with absolute precision? Surely when you thump it like from distance it has to include an element of luck precisely where the ball ends up?
If not then kudos to him, but I would still ask, with that sort of brilliance in his boots how come he isn't doing it much more often? Was his first goal this season from 37 appearances.
No, you said 'just put his foot through the ball 'hoped,and got lucky' so don't back down now by saying just an element of luck(which of course is required with any strike from distance). Simply saying he's done it more than once, and if it was as simple as just putting your foot through it and hoping why hasn't Wanyama, Dembele et al done it several times this season?
I don't think you do understand what I'm saying because you keep talking about Wanyamas passing as though it's relevant to how we play - Wanyama's job on the pitch is primarily to offer cover so Dier and Vertonghen can get up the pitch, playing Dier or a playmaker in that position would nullify their supposed superior passing ability as they'll be charged with offering cover, not dictating play from deep (not that is something Dier does anyway but that's beside the point) Dier is the one of the two that is currently given passing responsibility, as you seem to want - I think maybe you're getting hung up on where each player starts in the formation listing rather than where they get on the ball - in possession we frequently see:
Alderweireld Wanyama
Dier Vertonghen
Walker Eriksen Dembele Rose
Alli Kane
Maybe not so much with both wide cbs up at the same time but operating more in tandem, one up/one down - it's all quite fluid really and it's a setup which let's our better passers get on the ball further up the pitch than previously in the 4231Dier Vertonghen
Walker Eriksen Dembele Rose
Alli Kane
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And I'd like to see every single one of them as part of the attacking set.
Wanyama regularly gets the ball quite far up in our own half in that system and regularly slows down the play or chooses the wrong pass. It's not huge but it's enough of a margin that we are more free-flowing without him.
Well I hope you'd be prepared to ship a lot of goals if you want everyone to be part of the attacking set because without the cover a player like Wanyama provides in this setup or without changing the setup entirely I'm not sure how we'd achieve that without leaving ourselves wide open at all times.
We are the best team at both ends of the pitch currently - which would suggest we have the balance just right
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Not sure I quite follow you're logic there tbh. My original question was around whether it takes more skill to place a shot than just put your foot through it. Of course both must frequently involve some element of luck.
However, in any reasoned discussion you try to listen to counter arguments. That's all I was trying to do there my friend. IMO too many posters on here stick to their guns regardless once they're arguments have been shot down.
It so happens in your response that you've offer me a genuine chance to 'back down' as you put it. Because I'll concede you make a valid point in asking why if (by implication) placing the shot involves more skill, why is it Dembele and Wanyama don't score more often? My honest answer answer would be ah, you've actually caught me out there!
So now may I ask, would you rather I stick to my guns regardless or backtrack and acknowledge that you've made a perfectly valid counter-argument?
Maybe backdown wasn't the correct term, but you pretty much alluded to it being a lucky strike in first post, then in your second post suggesting an element of luck was required which to me was a more accurate assessment.Not sure I quite follow you're logic there tbh. My original question was around whether it takes more skill to place a shot than just put your foot through it. Of course both must frequently involve some element of luck.
However, in any reasoned discussion you try to listen to counter arguments. That's all I was trying to do there my friend. IMO too many posters on here stick to their guns regardless once they're arguments have been shot down.
It so happens in your response that you've offer me a genuine chance to 'back down' as you put it. Because I'll concede you make a valid point in asking why if (by implication) placing the shot involves more skill, why is it Dembele and Wanyama don't score more often? My honest answer answer would be ah, you've actually caught me out there!
So now may I ask, would you rather I stick to my guns regardless or backtrack and acknowledge that you've made a perfectly valid counter-argument?
Anyway, I very much enjoyed your open and honest reply, so just carry on doing you
thfcsteff
George Hunt
In fairness Billy, when Dier was back in the holding midfield role, we were spanking teams AND he was scoring/creating. It is such a tough call because Victor is a beast and Eric is versatile and class wherever he plays, but given the fact it was VW's first full game back since injury, I think one more appearance from the bench would've worked well. Imagine being able to bring him on at 2-2 to both stiffen things up AND not see us lose attacking thrust? Anyway, I think we were really unlucky yesterday when all's said and done.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
I feel that our 'unlucky' was to do with youthfulness and lack of experience. That Cheat$ki side, apart from having a much deeper squad, has waaaay more winning experience than we do, and it showed. As was said in the OMT, bringing on Hazard/Costa/Fibreglass is massive. I do also think that not man-marking Hazard was a mistake, but this is an Eric Dier thread and I love Eric Dier. I wonder how he feels about me...
Ive already responded to a similar point from Bedfordspur mate so wont repeat myself in full - we've spanked a few teams with Wanyama in the side too as well and we're only really talking about 3 games recently with Dier instead of Wanyama, so not the biggest sample size, if you include last season in to the conversation then i think we can see quite clearly we are improved in terms of attack and defense, so im not ready to change back on the basis of three games
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
I wouldn't put it down to lack of winning experience. Leicester didn't have any winning experience last year, but they managed to win the title. And over the course of a 38 game season, no less. Of course they also had a brickload of luck, which was the main thing we lacked in the semi.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
I think that lack of winning experience CONTRIBUTED to the loss against Cheat$ki for sure - along with luck (Matic wonder-strike), a ref who let them get away with tons of foul play and Son as a wing back. Leicester had ALL the luck last year - lack of injuries, last minute winners/significant decisions and not having to play on Monday night three weeks in a row. And I still love Eric Dier.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I've got to interject here but their squad depth is a myth
They were missing one player through illness from their first 11 and their bench had very fit available player to them
It included Zouma who has not done anything special
Terry who is deemed to be past it
Fibreglass their go to sub
Chalobah another youngster who hasn't done anything of note
Plus the two first team were who were "rested"
We were missing significant first team players from the squad who would have been on our bench had they been fit and been comparable IMO. They lucked out in that w edit get take the advatange we had of beungbtehbbetter side before hazard came ipin and scored (and did nothing else unless you call a pass back for a once In a lifetime goal a work of genius) . Costa and Frabregash offered nothing either and it was all about their defence and our lax of edge at that point
Dr Rosenrosen
Ramon Vega
Eric Dier’s versatility the basis of Tottenham’s exquisite flexibility
Michael Cox
Spurs’ ability to switch between systems, driven by Dier’s skills as both defender and midfielder, gave them a decisive edge against Arsenal at White Hart Lane
Among plenty of discussion about Arsène Wenger’s decision to abandon the four-man defence he has used for 20 years in favour of a back three it was notable that Mauricio Pochettino’s Tottenham were essentially playing both systems simultaneously in this 2-0 north London derby win. Eric Dier’s ability to play in both defence and midfield meant Spurs seamlessly switched between the systems, nullifying Arsenal’s major attacking threat and putting themselves in control.
Spurs were more 4-2-3-1 than 3-4-3 but, with the full-backs Kieran Trippier and Ben Davies flying forward, Dier dropped back from his defensive midfield role into deeper, right-of-centre positions to stop Arsenal from finding Alexis Sánchez quickly. “I think today you can see our flexibility in our tactics during the game,” said Pochettino afterwards. “How sometimes we had three at the back, four at the back, two at the back with three midfielders, we used the full-backs higher or close inside like a midfielder.” At times Tottenham’s flexibility works so efficiently that their shape transcends numerical formations.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ier-versatility-tottenham-flexibility-arsenal
Michael Cox
Spurs’ ability to switch between systems, driven by Dier’s skills as both defender and midfielder, gave them a decisive edge against Arsenal at White Hart Lane
Among plenty of discussion about Arsène Wenger’s decision to abandon the four-man defence he has used for 20 years in favour of a back three it was notable that Mauricio Pochettino’s Tottenham were essentially playing both systems simultaneously in this 2-0 north London derby win. Eric Dier’s ability to play in both defence and midfield meant Spurs seamlessly switched between the systems, nullifying Arsenal’s major attacking threat and putting themselves in control.
Spurs were more 4-2-3-1 than 3-4-3 but, with the full-backs Kieran Trippier and Ben Davies flying forward, Dier dropped back from his defensive midfield role into deeper, right-of-centre positions to stop Arsenal from finding Alexis Sánchez quickly. “I think today you can see our flexibility in our tactics during the game,” said Pochettino afterwards. “How sometimes we had three at the back, four at the back, two at the back with three midfielders, we used the full-backs higher or close inside like a midfielder.” At times Tottenham’s flexibility works so efficiently that their shape transcends numerical formations.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ier-versatility-tottenham-flexibility-arsenal
