Eric Dier

[Finney Is Back]

I said I speak like someone with a middling grasp of the language, not that I am one.

I'm sure you at least have aspirations to be one of those though don't you Scara?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I could be wrong but I would imagine it is pretty standard for the players who make the most passes in our team to be our centre halves? I would've thought that was standard for any team that tries to play it out from the back?

you would assume so
It’s part of any challenge when recruiting. We need players who are used to the ball
It’s why Rice looks so poor IMO for England. He isn’t used to having the ball

 

[parklane1]

but is it the passers fault or the receivers fault
Every pass would need to analysed
Some were sloppy and never making the man
Some were to the man who stayed still as got caught

Very good ( and a true) summing up, there are fans who swear to stats and get ( on occasions) a misleading opinion on what they mean.

 

[Finney Is Back]

you would assume so
It’s part of any challenge when recruiting. We need players who are used to the ball
It’s why Rice looks so poor IMO for England. He isn’t used to having the ball

It is why I am confused with the fact that we paid so much for Sanchez. If we want to be a possession based football team then we need a whole team of players who are comfortable on the ball.

From what I can tell in many of our recent games the opposition are making specific effort to press us high as they know we have some players in our team who do not react well to this (I think both Sanchez and Dier are extremely poor when pressed).

Generally when teams press high it will mean that there are spaces in behind that can be exploited. We aren't exploiting these however because our play has become so slow. If we look at that first half against Bayern, we pressed them really high and turned over the ball in fantastic areas, creating a lot of good goal scoring chances. However on the occasions when Bayern did play through our press they always looked dangerous, generating attack vs defence in equal number situations or even 2 v 1 overloads. We are playing far too slow to exploit the space in behind the opposition however, so our opponents are almost getting a free pass at pressing us.

 

[parklane1]

It is why I am confused with the fact that we paid so much for Sanchez. If we want to be a possession based football team then we need a whole team of players who are comfortable on the ball.

From what I can tell in many of our recent games the opposition are making specific effort to press us high as they know we have some players in our team who do not react well to this (I think both Sanchez and Dier are extremely poor when pressed).

Generally when teams press high it will mean that there are spaces in behind that can be exploited. We aren't exploiting these however because our play has become so slow. If we look at that first half against Bayern, we pressed them really high and turned over the ball in fantastic areas, creating a lot of good goal scoring chances. However on the occasions when Bayern did play through our press they always looked dangerous, generating attack vs defence in equal number situations or even 2 v 1 overloads. We are playing far too slow to exploit the space in behind the opposition however, so our opponents are almost getting a free pass at pressing us.

I do agree that we are playing far too slow ( said it on here several times this season) however i think putting part of the blame on a 23 year old player who is still adjusting to the pace of the game here is a bit OTT. He does look raw at times but he has not really played that many games in the Prem.

Sorry if i have misread your post.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I do agree that we are playing far too slow ( said it on here several times this season) however i think putting part of the blame on a 23 year old player who is still adjusting to the pace of the game here is a bit OTT. He does look raw at times but he has not really played that many games in the Prem.

Sorry if i have misread your post.

I don't really care about inexperience or rawness.... It is the fact that Sanchez takes a pass from a teammate like he is taking a hand grenade that has had the pin taken out. If we want to be a possession based, slow build up, passing team (which is what it seems that Pochettino has been trying to manoeuvre us towards? Then we need every player to be very comfortable on the ball as all of them will see a lot of the ball - especially the defence and deep midfield player(s)

 

[Bishop]

I don't really care about inexperience or rawness.... It is the fact that Sanchez takes a pass from a teammate like he is taking a hand grenade that has had the pin taken out. If we want to be a possession based, slow build up, passing team (which is what it seems that Pochettino has been trying to manoeuvre us towards? Then we need every player to be very comfortable on the ball as all of them will see a lot of the ball - especially the defence and deep midfield player(s)

The only players in the defensive space that you could really term as comfortable enough on the ball to truly play out from the back are Vertoghen, Toby and Foyth and with two of those player's likely out of the door this summer it suggests a total rebuild of the backline from the keeper through to the dm, a rebuild of that scale is quite unrealistic. Maybe the addition of FBs either side would be enough to balance out any poor control from the CBs but the keeper as well needs to be addressed, Lloris is horrid with the ball at his feet.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[parklane1]

I don't really care about inexperience or rawness.... It is the fact that Sanchez takes a pass from a teammate like he is taking a hand grenade that has had the pin taken out. If we want to be a possession based, slow build up, passing team (which is what it seems that Pochettino has been trying to manoeuvre us towards? Then we need every player to be very comfortable on the ball as all of them will see a lot of the ball - especially the defence and deep midfield player(s)

I do understand where you are coming from but we have been spoilt over the last 4/5 seasons because both Toby and Jan were good with the ball at their feet. Sad to say generally teams do not really have both CB's who can play that way.

I still think you are being harsh on a kid who is still trying to adapt to a totally different game then he is used to, is he is as good on the ball as Jan and Toby obviously not but then not many are. Early days from him ( just turned 23) and i will not judge him ( yet) as i can see promise in him.

But as they say Stop! Hammer time.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It is why I am confused with the fact that we paid so much for Sanchez. If we want to be a possession based football team then we need a whole team of players who are comfortable on the ball.

From what I can tell in many of our recent games the opposition are making specific effort to press us high as they know we have some players in our team who do not react well to this (I think both Sanchez and Dier are extremely poor when pressed).

Generally when teams press high it will mean that there are spaces in behind that can be exploited. We aren't exploiting these however because our play has become so slow. If we look at that first half against Bayern, we pressed them really high and turned over the ball in fantastic areas, creating a lot of good goal scoring chances. However on the occasions when Bayern did play through our press they always looked dangerous, generating attack vs defence in equal number situations or even 2 v 1 overloads. We are playing far too slow to exploit the space in behind the opposition however, so our opponents are almost getting a free pass at pressing us.

bayern.... What hurt us our wastefulness in Front of goal
If we had sorted that we would have been out of site and their “gamble” in letting us play wouldn’t have worked
No team has gone through us centrally other than Bayern and Brighton though IMO.
Everyone else targets our weak full backs. In fact Bayern did that too and Brighton had huge success down our right

 

[Jurgen the German]

I'm not saying Poch is blameless in this situation. Toby was the bench, we were under constant pressure from Sheff Utd from the first minute - at home. Dier is not a one footed player and I realise he's not a CB but these passes are hardly Pirlo level, they're 20/30 yards along the ground to our midfielders. If that's too hard for these guys then we can expect a relegation battle this season. I really don't get this unbridled loyalty to mediocre players.

It’s always the same on here with Dier. When Kane/Lloris/Rose has a bad game, most people/everyone calls it. When Dier has a bad game it’s “well the players weren’t showing for passes” etc or “he played a great pass to Alli against Chelsea in 2018 see he can play a great pass”. The same people always defend him regardless. Similar to Lamela but perhaps to a greater extent with Dier. He’s a good, honest pro and who never complains and sends out nothing but positive messages and vibes about the club but like you I’m scratching my head to figure out what he’s done to get so much credit in the bank with some like he’s untouchable.

“He’s miles better than Henderson” is another line that gets trotted out a lot on here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s always the same on here with Dier. When Kane/Lloris/Rose has a bad game, most people/everyone calls it. When Dier has a bad game it’s “well the players weren’t showing for passes” etc or “he played a great pass to Alli against Chelsea in 2018 see he can play a great pass”. The same people always defend him regardless. Similar to Lamela but perhaps to a greater extent with Dier. He’s a good, honest pro and who never complains and sends out nothing but positive messages and vibes about the club but like you I’m scratching my head to figure out what he’s done to get so much credit in the bank with some like he’s untouchable.

“He’s miles better than Henderson” is another line that gets trotted out a lot on here.

the guy gets defended and slated by the same people every time. Look through the thread and you can see

and if you watch the game at the weekend we lost the ball in midfield much much more than defence...

In the post you quote he is called a mediocre player. He really isn’t otherwise why woudk successive England managers play him along with Poch. Their not idiots

 

[Jurgen the German]

I do understand where you are coming from but we have been spoilt over the last 4/5 seasons because both Toby and Jan were good with the ball at their feet. Sad to say generally teams do not really have both CB's who can play that way.

I still think you are being harsh on a kid who is still trying to adapt to a totally different game then he is used to, is he is as good on the ball as Jan and Toby obviously not but then not many are. Early days from him ( just turned 23) and i will not judge him ( yet) as i can see promise in him.

But as they say Stop! Hammer time.

All due respect parklane, I don’t think he’s a kid anymore. Maybe to us old gits he is (I’m 35) but he’s an experienced pro now. He played 31 prem games in his first season and 23 last season. In my opinion he regressed slightly last season, thought he was excellent in his first season I might add. Ultimately I agree with finney, when should we expect that a CB of his quality to become comfortable on the ball? Shouldn’t take just under 2 1/2 seasons IMO.

 

[Jurgen the German]

the guy gets defended and slated by the same people every time. Look through the thread and you can see

and if you watch the game at the weekend we lost the ball in midfield much much more than defence...

In the post you quote he is called a mediocre player. He really isn’t otherwise why woudk successive England managers play him along with Poch. Their not idiots

the guy gets defended and slated by the same people every time. Look through the thread and you can see

and if you watch the game at the weekend we lost the ball in midfield much much more than defence...

In the post you quote he is called a mediocre player. He really isn’t otherwise why woudk successive England managers play him along with Poch. Their not idiots

Kind of proves my point really. The quintessential example of him having a complete mare was Liverpool away a couple of years ago, he’s had good and bad games since then but that was the ultimate game when he had a brain fart which cost us. But you still had people defending him but if that was Lloris for example pretty much everyone to a man would be all over him for it. Still don’t understand what Dier has done to have so much credit with some. I accept he’s not had a steady run of games but he hasn’t shown anything resembling good form in years now.

As for being picked by England, that’s great but Jordan Henderson gets picked too and he’s just captained the side that won the CL and yet no one on here seems to rate him. I like Dier for what he is which is a destroyer, but he’s limited on the ball and I certainly don’t think he’s the answer at CB or DM, you know, the positions where you need players who are good on the ball.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Kind of proves my point really. The quintessential example of him having a complete mare was Liverpool away a couple of years ago, he’s had good and bad games since then but that was the ultimate game when he had a brain fart which cost us. But you still had people defending him but if that was Lloris for example pretty much everyone to a man would be all over him for it. Still don’t understand what Dier has done to have so much credit with some. I accept he’s not had a steady run of games but he hasn’t shown anything resembling good form in years now.

As for being picked by England, that’s great but Jordan Henderson gets picked too and he’s just captained the side that won the CL and yet no one on here seems to rate him. I like Dier for what he is which is a destroyer, but he’s limited on the ball and I certainly don’t think he’s the answer at CB or DM, you know, the positions where you need players who are good on the ball.

Surely the most important thing for a DM or CM is the ability to defend... I mean that’s their core job. Being good on the ball helps I agree but VVD for example is not know for his passing, neither is Kante and their the best in the world in those positions

 

[Robspur12]

Surely the most important thing for a DM or CM is the ability to defend... I mean that’s their core job. Being good on the ball helps I agree but VVD for example is not know for his passing, neither is Kante and their the best in the world in those positions

I agree to a certain extent but you cannot have 2 centre backs who are unable to confidently play out from the back. Sanchez is the better defender, Dier is the better ball player. I am hoping they will complement each other and have by no means given up on Dier. I want these two to remain our centre half pairing with foyth rotating plus another left sided CB.

I would like to see a world class DM whose protection will not magnify the flaws of the Centre backs. We are lacking that at the moment.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree to a certain extent but you cannot have 2 centre backs who are unable to confidently play out from the back. Sanchez is the better defender, Dier is the better ball player. I am hoping they will complement each other and have by no means given up on Dier. I want these two to remain our centre half pairing with foyth rotating plus another left sided CB.

I would like to see a world class DM whose protection will not magnify the flaws of the Centre backs. We are lacking that at the moment.

We play a kinda high risk game which doesn’t help if everyone isn’t on it

But if you look at Leicester for example they have Ndidi playing brilliantly cleaning up so that the CBS aren’t exposed
He basically plays like kante did for them

 

[elltrev]

Kind of proves my point really. The quintessential example of him having a complete mare was Liverpool away a couple of years ago, he’s had good and bad games since then but that was the ultimate game when he had a brain fart which cost us. But you still had people defending him but if that was Lloris for example pretty much everyone to a man would be all over him for it. Still don’t understand what Dier has done to have so much credit with some. I accept he’s not had a steady run of games but he hasn’t shown anything resembling good form in years now.

As for being picked by England, that’s great but Jordan Henderson gets picked too and he’s just captained the side that won the CL and yet no one on here seems to rate him. I like Dier for what he is which is a destroyer, but he’s limited on the ball and I certainly don’t think he’s the answer at CB or DM, you know, the positions where you need players who are good on the ball.

I don’t understand why anyone sees him as a ‘destroyer’. If you look at his stats he doesn’t actually make many tackles. When he does they can be aggressive, but he just doesn’t tackle much for a destroyer.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Surely the most important thing for a DM or CM is the ability to defend... I mean that’s their core job. Being good on the ball helps I agree but VVD for example is not know for his passing, neither is Kante and their the best in the world in those positions

I’ll put it another way, I think he’s an ok defender and good enough to be a backup but not good enough for the standards we aspire to be achieving I.e. title challengers and CL contenders/outsiders. That coupled with his limitations on the ball says to me he shouldn’t be a regular starter for us.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’ll put it another way, I think he’s an ok defender and good enough to be a backup but not good enough for the standards we aspire to be achieving I.e. title challengers and CL contenders/outsiders. That coupled with his limitations on the ball says to me he shouldn’t be a regular starter for us.

Maybe. I don’t think he is going to be a regular starter as CB for us
I could see him playing CM still but he would need to be fully fit for that

Out of interest, would you have him or Lovren who is the fill in CB for Pool and will win the league this year

 

[elltrev]

I’ll put it another way, I think he’s an ok defender and good enough to be a backup but not good enough for the standards we aspire to be achieving I.e. title challengers and CL contenders/outsiders. That coupled with his limitations on the ball says to me he shouldn’t be a regular starter for us.

I can agree with that.