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Eric Dier

parklane1 said:
Sorry mate but that is a stupid comparison, unless you are saying that our team we have now is no better then those you mentioned? Chalk and cheese mate and i have come to expect more from you then that.
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Granted it may not be the same this time round and hopefully you are proved to be right, but even with our present manager and squad it's far from being a given for the simple reason it's likely we'll continue to be overwhelmingly out-muscled in the transfer market for many years to come.

It's no coincidence that despite our present quality we are still way short of the kind of squad depth that's needed to win more than the occasional trophy. Even the might of that lot down the road cannot buy a title nowadays, they have to be content with FA Cup as a consolation prize.

Anyway time will tell. I fervently it's hope you who turns out to be 100% correct and me utterly wrong! :D:D:D
 
Spur of the moment said:
Granted it may not be the same this time round and hopefully you are proved to be right, but even with our present manager and squad it's far from being a given for the simple reason it's likely we'll continue to be overwhelmingly out-muscled in the transfer market for many years to come.

It's no coincidence that despite our present quality we are still way short of the kind of squad depth that's needed to win more than the occasional trophy. Even the might of that lot down the road cannot buy a title nowadays, they have to be content with FA Cup as a consolation prize.

Anyway time will tell. I fervently it's hope you who turns out to be 400% correct and me utterly wrong! :D:D:D
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I think we do have a squad that is strong enough to compete for trophys ' (of all sorts), of course we are going to struggle keep up with the outlay of the money doped clubs but instead of using that as a excuse not to win things we should look at it as a reason to try harder.

We are going to have to agree to disagree but using the examples of previous (weaker) sides to suggest that we are unable to do so is weak.

Its a mental thing for most players, once that first trophy is won they get the hunger for more, because apart from money they want to be winners and to do that they have to start WINNING things not just coming close. I hope i am wrong but i fear the break up of the side if we stay as glorious losers/runners up.

We shall see.
 
parklane1 said:
I think we do have a squad that is strong enough to compete for trophys ' (of all sorts), of course we are going to struggle keep up with the outlay of the money doped clubs but instead of using that as a excuse not to win things we should look at it as a reason to try harder.

We are going to have to agree to disagree but using the examples of previous (weaker) sides to suggest that we are unable to do so is weak.

Its a mental thing for most players, once that first trophy is won they get the hunger for more, because apart from money they want to be winners and to do that they have to start WINNING things not just coming close. I hope i am wrong but i fear the break up of the side if we stay as glorious losers/runners up.

We shall see.
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If motivation is what's needed to win trophies and that motivation comes from winning, how come more than one team has ever won a trophy?

Your post doesn't logic.
 
scaramanga said:
If motivation is what's needed to win trophies and that motivation comes from winning, how come more than one team has ever won a trophy?

Your post doesn't logic.
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make? There is no better feeling then to have won at any sport and once you do that it makes you hungry/want more. The best sides in the world past and present are usually full of winners and have the medals to show it.

And motivation is just one of the tools you need to be a winner.
 
parklane1 said:
I think we do have a squad that is strong enough to compete for trophys ' (of all sorts), of course we are going to struggle keep up with the outlay of the money doped clubs but instead of using that as a excuse not to win things we should look at it as a reason to try harder.

We are going to have to agree to disagree but using the examples of previous (weaker) sides to suggest that we are unable to do so is weak.

Its a mental thing for most players, once that first trophy is won they get the hunger for more, because apart from money they want to be winners and to do that they have to start WINNING things not just coming close. I hope i am wrong but i fear the break up of the side if we stay as glorious losers/runners up.

We shall see.
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Not an excuse, more an explanation. I'm sure one of our stattos could come up with an equation showing how many trophies X amount of £millions buys on average. But there's no real need is there because I'm sure you'll agree the total number of trophies won over, say, the last ten years by the money-doped clubs will dwarf the total won by the rest.

So that is what we are up against. Like it or not it's reality. Indeed you could construct an argument to say that nowadays it's almost as much squad strength that wins trophies as anything else.

Another sign of this is that Poch feels compelled to prioritise the PL and the CL over the domestic trophies. It's almost like we go into domestic cup games against the big boys with one hand tied behind our backs. If we were to succeed in winning more than the odd trophy in such circumstances that for me would represent a considerably greater achievement than for any of the other top six.

All in all I'm happy to live with the realities of where we are and where we are going so long as the team I support continues to compete to the best of its abilities within the constraints of its resources. I do not follow football purely to see my team win trophies; I get plenty enough satisfaction just watching them do well and can live perfectly happily with the kind of level we are at now.

Saying all that I do agree that if we fail to win a trophy and/or qualify for the CL this season it will inevitably make it that much more difficult to retain our most talented players going into our new stadium. It could well be a case of one step forward, two steps back.

Ces't la vie.
 
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parklane1 said:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make? There is no better feeling then to have won at any sport and once you do that it makes you hungry/want more. The best sides in the world past and present are usually full of winners and have the medals to show it.

And motivation is just one of the tools you need to be a winner.
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At some point, all of those winners weren't winners, so the effect can't be that large.
 
The return of Wanyama should help Dier IMO. He's similar to Lloris in the sense that he thinks he can play but he can't really and puts us in trouble with his distribution at times.

At least he should get a good run in the side as DM with Wanyama when Toby comes back. Boy do we miss Toby!
 
Jordinho said:
Either Dier thinks he's much better than he is or he has serious concentration issues. This is why he can't play CB and can even be a liability in midfield.
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Poch seems to think he can make it as a centre back, reminds me of my mother being convinced I could learn the periodic table. Some things just cant/wont happen. He is pretty pretty good in midfield. Might have let Foryth have a go myself I like the look of him.
 
Sadly I do think he’s gone backwards since his breakout season 15/16.

To me he plays very much in the style of Michael Carrick, but without being that great a passer (at least in terms of execution).
 
He neds to get back to doing the basics right - was a lot better in the second half when he seemed to have more time on the ball but that first 45 was very poor when he was being hassled
 
billyiddo said:
He neds to get back to doing the basics right - was a lot better in the second half when he seemed to have more time on the ball but that first 45 was very poor when he was being hassled
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Double edged sword that. We need our midfielders to be brave on the ball and try to play through pressure in a game (first half) like that. Mistakes can end up being very costly though. Can't just rely on opponents giving us space.

I like that Dier tries, and he is brave. But the consequences are difficult to live with in games like today. Glad Winks is returning.
 
braineclipse said:
Double edged sword that. We need our midfielders to be brave on the ball and try to play through pressure in a game (first half) like that. Mistakes can end up being very costly though. Can't just rely on opponents giving us space.

I like that Dier tries, and he is brave. But the consequences are difficult to live with in games like today. Glad Winks is returning.
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Yeah I think Dier’s main issue as a CM is that he’s generally not very good at making space for himself when being pressed. So he always seems susceptible to getting caught in possession or rushing his pass and giving the ball away.
 
elltrev said:
Yeah I think Dier’s main issue as a CM is that he’s generally not very good at making space for himself when being pressed. So he always seems susceptible to getting caught in possession or rushing his pass and giving the ball away.
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I'd like to see us use a combination of what we did today.

Have Dier as the deeper of the two midfielders, but have hem switch it up when playing out from defence
 
I think firstly it’s important to praise his mentality. He made a mistake in the 2nd minute but immediately after was showing for the ball, making runs, and generally not hiding. It’s for that reason probably that Poch loves him, among other things. Mistakes will happen but even a lot of pros will hide, go into their shell or let it affect them. It didn’t with Dier. He got right back on it and for that he should be commended.

It also may be said that Poch arguably trusts him too much. He clearly loves him as well he should because he has a lot of good qualities and gives us so much. But if Dier is to be put in midfield against a team that presses like Liverpool and is expected to carry it out, he either has to be really confident he can do it or be prepared to change it up to protect him. Poch changed it up which deserves credit.

Dier is awesome, but he needs to cut out these mistakes because it always seems to happen away to the bigger sides and it costs us. Some errant passing against smaller teams too but we can typically recover well. Against the bigger sides that are the difference between dropping 2 or 3 points and it needs to stop. I’m not sure of the answer, maybe it is simply experience. We should trust him. We should give him that room to grow. But at the same time, those mistakes need to stop.
 
scaramanga said:
I'd like to see us use a combination of what we did today.

Have Dier as the deeper of the two midfielders, but have hem switch it up when playing out from defence
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Out of interest, what do you think Dier’s biggest strengths are?

He was my favourite player the season before last, but I just feel he’s regressed rather than progressed.

I like his composure but too often it actually means giving the ball away in dangerous positions. I like his passing vision / intent but he’s inconsistent at best in execution. I like his defensive positioning and awareness but sometimes it seems he stands off too much and gets bypassed. Plus he has a pretty awful change in direction / turning circle.
 
elltrev said:
Out of interest, what do you think Dier’s biggest strengths are?

He was my favourite player the season before last, but I just feel he’s regressed rather than progressed.

I like his composure but too often it actually means giving the ball away in dangerous positions. I like his passing vision / intent but he’s inconsistent at best in execution. I like his defensive positioning and awareness but sometimes it seems he stands off too much and gets bypassed. Plus he has a pretty awful change in direction / turning circle.
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His reading of the game, both defensively and going forward.

Most midfielders have one or the other, he has both to a fairly high level. Plenty of midfielders will be better going forward, plenty will be better defensively, but he can play both to a high level.

I don't want an out and out defensive midfielder in there, I think it's needlessly damaging to our style of play. An out and out attacking midfielder would obviously be suicide. Dier is a good fit for both.
 
Scara, I can’t figure out if you’re overrating Dier or underrating the other players who play a similar role to him. Wanyama is not only a better defensive midfielder but his passing is miles better, his pass to Eriksen just before his goal was class, can’t recall Dier playing a pass of that level in his career.

Winks is also on another level to Dier going forward despite not being as good in the DM role.

If happily sell dier if a silly offer came in.
 
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