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ENIC

Since Jol to 2019 we'd been on an upward curve. The Poch era put us above all expectations when compared to much agreed football metrics (size of club, finances etc).

But those expectations are then set, set in the fans minds. In reality, they're hard to live up to.

Our watermark is 5th or 6th...so thats where you cast judgement from.

As others have said, we were in the main achieving that level. The two outliers being the last two seasons. Both blighted by injury, and last seasons league performance obviously traded for going balls out for EL. Yes, we got over the line, and got the trophy monkey off our back. A more than fair trade off you'd think, given fans chronic ire at those two ball and chain scenarios.
This season has been a genuine disaster (obviously not the staying up bit!), no question.

Levy hit a glass ceiling. No doubt. But beyond bankrolling more money in, from the owners or outside investment, that ceiling is there for anyone.

So the new crew are implying that is happening. Ceiling removed. Let's hope so.

The way they are insinuating the blame is on past regimes is distasteful. They are not a new regime. They were that regime. The only way ANYONE can answer this is if they have knowledge of how much autonomy Levy has in the TOTAL running of the club. None of US will know. The Lewis's will. BUT it was still that family that gave Levy that control. And now they're saying they don't like what they saw after 25 years LOL ('right we're stepping in!'). And even that's if they gave him FULL control. The Lewis's might still have had input into top line decisions.
It's disrespectful, (imo) it bricks on the work DL did do, and the resultant renewed wc club infrastructure and long term safety net its given them.

Regardless, them issuing this kind of PR 'lets go!' nonsense...is it changes nothing. As I referred to earlier...there's two top line ways you can run the club differently, and as fans will often bemoan...it's spend more money.
It’s also making a mockery of the fans and their intelligence.

Throwing levy under the bus is one thing, being one of your own men, but then to try to get fans onside at his expense is even worse.

It’s no wonder we have gimps running around every week trying to start a movement against the ownership.
 
It’s also making a mockery of the fans and their intelligence.

Throwing levy under the bus is one thing, being one of your own men, but then to try to get fans onside at his expense is even worse.

It’s no wonder we have gimps running around every week trying to start a movement against the ownership.
This
 
Given the importance placed on trophies our post 2019 era should viewed as our best no? Given we won the Europa League

😇

Poch built a side that consistently challenged at the top level but ultimately couldn’t get us over the line. Ange managed to get over the line and deliver a trophy, but at the expense of the league campaign. We need to be aiming for both — competing for the top honours while also winning trophies. Aston Villa have shown that it’s entirely possible to balance the two.
 
Poch built a side that consistently challenged at the top level but ultimately couldn’t get us over the line. Ange managed to get over the line and deliver a trophy, but at the expense of the league campaign. We need to be aiming for both — competing for the top honours while also winning trophies. Aston Villa have shown that it’s entirely possible to balance the two.
I agree and made that argument on here previous, but I swear there is a thread where a vast majority even argued they would take championship football for a trophy for the monkey off the back haha. I get they were being extreme to make a point, but also I think some said seriously that 14th etc and a cup would suit them
 
I think this is also part of the issue though with Levy. We’d occasionally get a manager in who would achieve something through force of their own personality and ability, but it was never consistent with a long term club strategy. It was continually hoping for some short term shot in the arm to help us make that next leap. That’s why I agree with the idea that since 2019 we’ve been in decline. Whether it was intentional or he stumbled upon it, Levy struck gold with Poch. And he threw it away. Didn’t realise what he had, and didn’t understand what made Poch able to be successful.

Up until 2019, Levy was the best chairman in the league. Incredible achievements in the infrastructure side and consistent over performance relative to transfer spend and wages paid. But he reached the limit of what he could do, he had no idea how to take us forward in our new reality.

Ironically, constraints often lead to better, more focused strategy. And so the combination of Levy and Poch, the focus on youth, the playing style that everyone could buy into and be suited for, it gave us a culture and a way of working that was hard to replicate. And yet with those constraints lifted, Levy didn’t know what to do. We have just been nothing since 2019. We lost the alignment, we didn’t know how to use our resources effectively, and thrashed from one idea to the other in the hopes of a short term shot in the arm that would help us take that next step. Even in the Allnut article today it references going back to youth, which Levy suggested was a deliberate move after some of the failed big transfer signings. But it left us short to compete properly in a league that was getting more physical, and set us back from even our base level expectations of 5th/6th, let alone being able to push on with the new stadium.

I actually think the Lewis kids and Vinai ‘get’ this. I find it unsavoury how they are planting stories to make it look like Levy was a fool when they gave him free rein for a quarter of a century. But if their question was how are they going to become a regular title challenger and they looked at what Levy was doing, I can see why they concluded he was holding us back. And the three main things are a lack of patience, a lack of long term strategy, and too tight a wage structure.

With the best will, I think they were trying to fix some of these things this season. But they initiated too much transition too quickly, and it almost ended in disaster.
There's never a new reality...

The PL gives us, and every other club, the biggest challenges every single season. Bigger clubs than us make a dogs dinner of it, with all the resources we dream of.

All clubs strike gold (to one degree or other) with a manager every so often. Some are obvious, some less so. They are the biggest difference maker

Post that manager they are all trying to replicate that era. The biggest issue that makes that hard, is they are literally a different human being.

From our pov (and with hindsight) we should have kept rolling with Poch, given him the time to transition to Poch 2.0 and then see if it failed. Shrug.
 
I wasn’t defending him, I was just pointing out that being well-placed in the league in December is irrelevant.
Yep
Massive irrelevant if it isn’t built on something
Here’s the madness star
We played Bournemouth with no wins in 11
They beat us late on and they then the best unbeaten run in Europe with 18 games
It’s how you finish like you say
 
There's never a new reality...

The PL gives us, and every other club, the biggest challenges every single season. Bigger clubs than us make a dogs dinner of it, with all the resources we dream of.

All clubs strike gold (to one degree or other) with a manager every so often. Some are obvious, some less so. They are the biggest difference maker

Post that manager they are all trying to replicate that era. The biggest issue that makes that hard, is they are literally a different human being.

From our pov (and with hindsight) we should have kept rolling with Poch, given him the time to transition to Poch 2.0 and then see if it failed. Shrug.

The new reality was our bigger stadium allowing us to spend more on wages and still be whatever the club decided sustainable meant for them.

It’s the reality that allows us to be in for the Simons, Eze, Semenyo, Gallagher type players. We won’t always get them, but we can now realistically compete for them.

I don’t think Levy knew how to compete for those players, because you’re effectively fighting with other clubs at the very top of the food chain who are willing to be more decisive and get their business done early even if it means paying a little more. His whole negotiating playbook was I think very ill suited to this new reality. And to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised (although I might be completely wrong) that the MGW and Eze episodes were so embarrassing that it contributed to the hastening of his departure.

Levy was always willing to be more decisive on younger players. Or, weirdly, players like Sissoko who I’m assuming data some way was telling him was a great investment. But his playbook was never going to allow us to push on unfortunately.
 
Poch built a side that consistently challenged at the top level but ultimately couldn’t get us over the line. Ange managed to get over the line and deliver a trophy, but at the expense of the league campaign. We need to be aiming for both — competing for the top honours while also winning trophies. Aston Villa have shown that it’s entirely possible to balance the two.
Aston Villa have also got lucky this year in that the league is so bad they could limp after a great start
They also relied so heavily on rogers wonder goals which wasn’t sustainable
That doesn’t happen most seasons but you can still only beat what is in front of you
 
Aston Villa have also got lucky this year in that the league is so bad they could limp after a great start
They also relied so heavily on rogers wonder goals which wasn’t sustainable
That doesn’t happen most seasons but you can still only beat what is in front of you

I also think…we are aiming for both. But to aim for both we need to have a season that isn’t disrupted by an unprecedented injury crisis.
 
The new reality was our bigger stadium allowing us to spend more on wages and still be whatever the club decided sustainable meant for them.

It’s the reality that allows us to be in for the Simons, Eze, Semenyo, Gallagher type players. We won’t always get them, but we can now realistically compete for them.

I don’t think Levy knew how to compete for those players, because you’re effectively fighting with other clubs at the very top of the food chain who are willing to be more decisive and get their business done early even if it means paying a little more. His whole negotiating playbook was I think very ill suited to this new reality. And to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised (although I might be completely wrong) that the MGW and Eze episodes were so embarrassing that it contributed to the hastening of his departure.

Levy was always willing to be more decisive on younger players. Or, weirdly, players like Sissoko who I’m assuming data some way was telling him was a great investment. But his playbook was never going to allow us to push on unfortunately.
My point was the reality is the PL and the challenges that gives us and everyone.

Their are clubs doing all the things you want Levy to do and they fail.

On a side note I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'I don't think Levy knows how to compete for those players', when he signed two in your list.

As for MGW and Eze 'episodes', the negotiator could have been Ben Kingsley's Don Logan in Sexy Beast and it still wouldn't have got them thru the door because of circumstances beyond our control.
 
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