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ENIC

parklane1 said:
This conversation can go around and around and there is no real happy ending to it. Am i happy with the price of my S/T going up as a OAP? of course not but its a choice i have to make and want too. Others will spend fortunes on other things ( putting their nose bags on in posh overpriced restruants, buying the latest b oys toys, etc,etc etc). We have a choice to make when we decide what we want to spend our bread on and its a choice we have to make.

Its allready been said but " yer p ays yer m oney or takes your choice" no one forces any of us to make those choices.
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Of course but ita good to get it off your chest on a fans forum on the day it's topic, even if it's to a chorus of matter of daft responses.

Has to be some use to the forum other than a bunch of adverts ;)
 
parklane1 said:
This conversation can go around and around and there is no real happy ending to it. Am i happy with the price of my S/T going up as a OAP? of course not but its a choice i have to make and want too. Others will spend fortunes on other things ( putting their nose bags on in posh overpriced restruants, buying the latest b oys toys, etc,etc etc). We have a choice to make when we decide what we want to spend our bread on and its a choice we have to make.

Its allready been said but " yer p ays yer m oney or takes your choice" no one forces any of us to make those choices.
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Tough if you’ve been following the club for decades but are being priced out, though. You can obviously afford to make the choice. Others may not be able to.

Which goes back to my point as to whether you see football clubs as anything other than big business. Unfortunately we’re probably too far down a road where they are to change things now - certainly in the top division.
 
Mikey10 said:
Tough if you’ve been following the club for decades but are being priced out, though. You can obviously afford to make the choice. Others may not be able to.

Which goes back to my point as to whether you see football clubs as anything other than big business. Unfortunately we’re probably too far down a road where they are to change things now - certainly in the top division.
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Exactly this

And to the point made earlier its perfectly fine to show empathy to those who are now being priced out as it is to still remain empathetic to those priced out years ago, ultimately it placed many people in the same boat.

I think we all know its a business now and it's about supply and demand, doesn't take the sting out of it as it becomes even more apparent.
 
Mikey10 said:
Tough if you’ve been following the club for decades but are being priced out, though. You can obviously afford to make the choice. Others may not be able to.

Which goes back to my point as to whether you see football clubs as something other than big business. Unfortunately we’re probably too far down a road where they are to change things now - certainly in the top division.
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Personally i do not really think of football clubs being big business it what i have decided to spend my money on over the years and what i enjoy ( not all the time though:)). As for being able to afford to do that though well its just the same as anyone deciding to spend their money on eurodance records, nosebags, boozy nights etc etc.

I have mates who spends hundreds of pounds regually on bo oze, drugs, bo ys toys etc etc anyway even though they moan about the price of things. Its never really been any different.
 
Raziel said:
Well, to the earlier point, the state of the game is such that with record revenue our chairman (who does understand money) feels we need additional external investment

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/so...-talks-over-selling-stake-in-club/ar-BB1kZiAy

Daniel Levy, the Tottenham chairman, has revealed he is in talks with “prospective investors” about selling a stake in the club.

In his statement accompanying the club's financial results to the year ending June 2023, Levy said Spurs needed new investment to reach their “long-term potential”.

Levy's statement read: “To capitalise on our long-term potential, to continue to invest in the teams and undertake future capital projects, the Club requires a significant increase in its equity base.

“The Board and its advisors, Rothschild & Co, are in discussions with prospective investors. Any recommended investment proposal would require the support of the Club’s shareholders.”
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Something probably to consider:

Any Uncle Joe finance line has well and truly gone...and DL probably did well to get £150m out of him.

The rates Levy secured on the stadium debt are long gone, so capital borrowing for projects has a larger interest cost. (To be clear, no financial institution is going to lend you money to buy players anyway, infrastructure yes.).

Furthermore, I'm not sure how comfortable any lender is to load more debt onto a company of our size that already carries £870m of debt? Regardless of an impeccable credit history.

I think Levy probably realises he is somewhere near the top of what can be squeezed out of this machine, so outside investment via a expanded share issue or selling a part of his or ENICs own equity (although I'm not sure who calls the shots for ENICs majority slice anymore) is a way to increase liquid capital. No other route really.

(I suppose an NFL franchise would be the biggest game changer remaining)
 
Bullet said:
Just don't go then. I don't go. If people have been going for years, it is because they can afford it
Boo hoo if they can't afford it this year, join the hundreds of thousands of others that can't afford it either.
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People, who have been going for years, have done so because (in the vast majority of cases) they have decided to assign a large (and ever growing) proportion of the income to supporting what they assumed to be a football "club" and that support was recognised as just that, support. They are now being told, at a time where their income is likely to be significantly reduced, you can't afford (read, "we can't allow you to") to support us anymore, and we're certainly not supporting you, fvck off!
We could apply the same logic to the NHS et al, "if you can't afford to pay in at the same level anymore, your previous investment in said scheme is of no consequence, fvck off!"
 
mephitis said:
People, who have been going for years, have done so because (in the vast majority of cases) they have decided to assign a large (and ever growing) proportion of the income to supporting what they assumed to be a football "club" and that support was recognised as just that, support. They are now being told, at a time where their income is likely to be significantly reduced, you can't afford (read, "we can't allow you to") to support us anymore, and we're certainly not supporting you, fvck off!
We could apply the same logic to the NHS et al, "if you can't afford to pay in at the same level anymore, your previous investment in said scheme is of no consequence, fvck off!"
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You don’t have to go to games to support the club.

The T&C’s of exactly what buying a ticket gets you are no different now to when I started going in the 90’s.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Something probably to consider:

Any Uncle Joe finance line has well and truly gone...and DL probably did well to get £150m out of him.

The rates Levy secured on the stadium debt are long gone, so capital borrowing for projects has a larger interest cost. (To be clear, no financial institution is going to lend you money to buy players anyway, infrastructure yes.).

Furthermore, I'm not sure how comfortable any lender is to load more debt onto a company of our size that already carries £870m of debt? Regardless of an impeccable credit history.

I think Levy probably realises he is somewhere near the top of what can be squeezed out of this machine, so outside investment via a expanded share issue or selling a part of his or ENICs own equity (although I'm not sure who calls the shots for ENICs majority slice anymore) is a way to increase liquid capital. No other route really.

(I suppose an NFL franchise would be the biggest game changer remaining)
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I’ve read the club statements and what stands out to me is any investment will be focussed IMO on capital. For me I read that as money for the hotel
 
Lilbaz said:
Haven't we got another bit of land we want to develop?

The money for the hotel and that should already be set aside.
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There's 3 small parcels over to the west of the stadium that were used for storing materials during the construction - they are known as Goods Yard, Depot and Printworks. I think there's supposed to be about 800 flats built across them.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’ve read the club statements and what stands out to me is any investment will be focussed IMO on capital. For me I read that as money for the hotel
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While the line does reference "capital projects", it is very specific to continue to invest in teams and capitalize full potential (we realistically need to improve on field results to maximize that revenue, CL, deeper cup runs, trophies that bring brand growth)

I think as @ricky2tricky4city stated, Levy has probably squeezed the maximum out of it, and continuing is such a tight balancing game that external funding is probably a requirement otherwise we risk the old scenario of either needing to sell or needing CL every year to continue investing.
 
I saw that commrrcial had increased by around £40m. Would that be bonuses for getting in cl, new sponsorships or a bit of both?
 
Raziel said:
I think Levy has always understood self funded had a limit (been reports of him asking Lewis in past for additional investment).

The questions would be
- What would the model look like? e.g. 10-25% investment that goes to squad improvements but club structure remains the same (obviously give a board seat?)
- Could we get any kind of model done before summer window (if we got CL as well)
- Then the hard part, could Spurs ever get some luck? i.e. invest in a top player or two that work out (our expensive ones typically haven't), and could we get a season or two where other teams don't have a blinder of a season and we actually get over the line?
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I think the extra investment is needed to ensure we don’t end up in a bad position as the current bonds start to reach maturity. We are now in a very different interest rate environment and with the club carrying over £800m of secured debt. It is imperative that we ensure we are able to pay the debt down as the bonds mature instead of refinancing.

A THFC carrying (say) only £200m of secured, long term debt is in a brilliant place for its short, medium and long term future.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
There's 3 small parcels over to the west of the stadium that were used for storing materials during the construction - they are known as Goods Yard, Depot and Printworks. I think there's supposed to be about 800 flats built across them.
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Some more info on these:




 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Something probably to consider:

Any Uncle Joe finance line has well and truly gone...and DL probably did well to get £150m out of him.

The rates Levy secured on the stadium debt are long gone, so capital borrowing for projects has a larger interest cost. (To be clear, no financial institution is going to lend you money to buy players anyway, infrastructure yes.).

Furthermore, I'm not sure how comfortable any lender is to load more debt onto a company of our size that already carries £870m of debt? Regardless of an impeccable credit history.

I think Levy probably realises he is somewhere near the top of what can be squeezed out of this machine, so outside investment via a expanded share issue or selling a part of his or ENICs own equity (although I'm not sure who calls the shots for ENICs majority slice anymore) is a way to increase liquid capital. No other route really.

(I suppose an NFL franchise would be the biggest game changer remaining)
Click to expand...
I’m not convinced it would actually be a massive game changer. 8 games instead of 2 or 3 would probably increase income by about £20m per year.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’ve read the club statements and what stands out to me is any investment will be focussed IMO on capital. For me I read that as money for the hotel
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Agreed. Capital projects and injecting capital so that our current, very high level of, debt doesn’t cripple us in the future.
 
Lilbaz said:
Haven't we got another bit of land we want to develop?

The money for the hotel and that should already be set aside.
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‘Set aside’ in what way? The cash and cash equivalents THFC holds is reducing year on year (unless increasing via taking on more debt).
 
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