ENIC

[Finney Is Back]

Disagree, one superb player makes a massive difference, but there are not that many around.

He's alright, but 100m is superstar money, he's not that.

Which teams that aren't already top 8 level teams have one superb player though? Leeds fought a relegation battle last season with Raphinia for example.
West Ham got relegated with Carrick.
Southampton fought numerous relegation battles with Le Tissier.
It is rare for players who are clearly top class to stay with a lowish level club for a few years like Rice has at West Ham, so difficult to find many comparisons really.

 

[johnola]

When did it tinkle all over us recently? When they purchased Pepe? Vieira?

Is that who you covet? No I was thinking more along the lines of:

Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho etc.

 

[DubSpur]

Is that who you covet? No I was thinking more along the lines of:

Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho etc.

So one window?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Is that who you covet? No I was thinking more along the lines of:

Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho etc.

Two of those players have never managed to stay fit for a season
One is week defender who is actually a midfielder
The other need to step up really as a goal scorer (1 in 3 isn’t great)
The reason they did so well is because of players they already had there

 

[harr1984]

Two of those players have never managed to stay fit for a season
One is week defender who is actually a midfielder
The other need to step up really as a goal scorer (1 in 3 isn’t great)
The reason they did so well is because of players they already had there

Yeah, mostly players they had recruited

Odegard, Saliba, Partey, Ramsdale along with the likes of Jesus and Zinchecnko who have done well overall no matter how its dressed up. At the end of the day they are ahead of us now, the best we can hope for is that we are having a proper reset this summer getting rid of a lot of the dross that have been here for far too long and acquire a few players who will fit Ange's long term vision. And we build from there....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah, mostly players they had recruited

Odegard, Saliba, Partey, Ramsdale along with the likes of Jesus and Zinchecnko who have done well overall no matter how it’s dressed up. At the end of the day they are ahead of us now, the best we can hope for is that we are having a proper reset this summer getting rid of a lot of the dross that have been here for far too long and acquire a few players who will fit Ange's long term vision. And we build from there....

Over time I agree
They didn’t improve their team in one window
And the test is this season with more games for them

 

[Grays_1890]

Yeah, mostly players they had recruited

Odegard, Saliba, Partey, Ramsdale along with the likes of Jesus and Zinchecnko who have done well overall no matter how its dressed up. At the end of the day they are ahead of us now, the best we can hope for is that we are having a proper reset this summer getting rid of a lot of the dross that have been here for far too long and acquire a few players who will fit Ange's long term vision. And we build from there....

Exactly this, I have no issue as much as it sticks admitting that they are in a different place now, for me, its just how football works. For years it was us although we didn't press that home into trophies (before someone beats me to that). But football goes round in circles, thats why I don't lose my brick about it all, you live long enough to see it, you see and hear it all.

 

[Jurgen the German]

City got Rodri and Gundogan for less than 100m and both are better players than Rice.

Gundogan was signed in 2016 and Rodri circa 2018 IIRC so the figures would be higher now but I take your point. £100m seems a lot but we laughed at Liverpool when they paid £75m for Van Dijk and he was exactly what they needed. Not saying Rice will have that impact but if he helps them get over the line then they will argue it’s a bargain.

 

[scaramanga]

No, we don't really have to 'balance our books'. We continually operate well under the FFP caps. I suspect Arsenal's owners are happy to operate up close to (and maybe even the max permitted amount over) the FFP line in an attempt to turn their very good team into a title winning one.

Allow me to rephrase;

We (and Arsenal) do not have endless funds to indiscriminately spend, nor do we have the teams of lawyers to fight UEFA when it is challenged. We (and Arsenal) have to spend smarter than City and not overspend. We simply have to be smarter with our money.

£100M on Declan Rice is not being smart with money.

 

[scaramanga]

Gundogan was signed in 2016 and Rodri circa 2018 IIRC so the figures would be higher now but I take your point. £100m seems a lot but we laughed at Liverpool when they paid £75m for Van Dijk and he was exactly what they needed. Not saying Rice will have that impact but if he helps them get over the line then they will argue it’s a bargain.

Liverpool did overpay for Van Dijk. He's a very good player but, by his standards, just had a season to forget. What happens if he has another one of those next season? £75m goes from an overpayment to stupidity.

Van Dijk is also a significantly better player than Rice for only 3/4 of the price - even with Victimpool overpaying.

 

[Grays_1890]

Liverpool did overpay for Van Dijk. He's a very good player but, by his standards, just had a season to forget. What happens if he has another one of those next season? £75m goes from an overpayment to stupidity.

Van Dijk is also a significantly better player than Rice for only 3/4 of the price - even with Victimpool overpaying.

I said it before, this country and the fans here are obsessed with transfers and figures when the reality is its all a wash TBH. To sound all moneyball we have an industry that vastly over inflates the value of some talent and unfortunately clubs often get hamstrung in to bad deals no least because of expectation. But as with anything there are as many it not more examples of a bigger return on less money money spent than there is the larger sums. I can't remember who the manager was who came over here, will have to dig it out, but he said it was odd how obsessed the English game is with the tranfers windows and other leagues in the majority, work towards more of a building and development model. There are exceptions to that of course, but he may well be right. People lose their heads over transfer fees in this country.....

 

[Bishop]

Liverpool did overpay for Van Dijk. He's a very good player but, by his standards, just had a season to forget. What happens if he has another one of those next season? £75m goes from an overpayment to stupidity.

Van Dijk is also a significantly better player than Rice for only 3/4 of the price - even with Victimpool overpaying.

They've won the league and the CL. He's justified his fee already.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Jurgen the German]

Liverpool did overpay for Van Dijk. He's a very good player but, by his standards, just had a season to forget. What happens if he has another one of those next season? £75m goes from an overpayment to stupidity.

Van Dijk is also a significantly better player than Rice for only 3/4 of the price - even with Victimpool overpaying.

He helped them win the CL and the title and was outstanding for 3/4 years for them. IIRC the difference between Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project over that same period was only a handful of points, something like 330 points each over 4 seasons. There’s no doubt him and Alison massively improved them. Whether he can regain his form remains to be seen but I don’t think anyone can argue he’s not been a great signing for them.

 

[Yiddo]

Is that who you covet? No I was thinking more along the lines of:

Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho etc.

Didn’t everyone laugh at them signings as they were City and Chelsea rejects?

 

[Yiddo]

Liverpool did overpay for Van Dijk. He's a very good player but, by his standards, just had a season to forget. What happens if he has another one of those next season? £75m goes from an overpayment to stupidity.

Van Dijk is also a significantly better player than Rice for only 3/4 of the price - even with Victimpool overpaying.

But did they overpay? The success they have had from bringing him in pays for him twice over.

 

[Baleforce]

Which teams that aren't already top 8 level teams have one superb player though? Leeds fought a relegation battle last season with Raphinia for example.
West Ham got relegated with Carrick.
Southampton fought numerous relegation battles with Le Tissier.
It is rare for players who are clearly top class to stay with a lowish level club for a few years like Rice has at West Ham, so difficult to find many comparisons really.

I wouldn't put any of those players in that bracket.

For those exact reasons.

 

[scaramanga]

They've won the league and the CL. He's justified his fee already.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

Not if his performances tank and he's got no sell on value with high wages. I do not want our club to take an all or nothing, one win then back to mediocrity approach.

 

[scaramanga]

But did they overpay? The success they have had from bringing him in pays for him twice over.

That's not how it works.

Every £ spent on him is a £ that can't be spent elsewhere. I'm sure they'd love to have got a player 90% as good for 50% of the fee - that way they could have started spending on the rebuild they so obviously need.

 

[Grays_1890]

But did they overpay? The success they have had from bringing him in pays for him twice over.

I think in rational terms it's over payment BUT it's a payment the games comfortable with because it's been normalised. That's in no small part because the game vastly over spends on average or unproven players and its benchmarks from there. Example being that when clubs like us are paying 35m for Sanchez' of this world then the only way is up for someone of VVD quality.

I would still argue that he isn't worth that money but that's the nature of the game we are in unfortunately

 

[Baleforce]

I think in rational terms it's over payment BUT it's a payment the games comfortable with because it's been normalised. That's in no small part because the game vastly over spends on average or unproven players and its benchmarks from there. Example being that when clubs like us are paying 35m for Sanchez' of this world then the only way is up for someone of VVD quality.

I would still argue that he isn't worth that money but that's the nature of the game we are in unfortunately

Yes, but just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean its not stupid.

Clubs bankrolled by criminals shouldn't be spending 100m on one player, let alone clubs like us who have to use real money.