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ENIC

Chrissivad said:
We have reached finals and challenged for the league under Enic.

Not winning anything isn't just on the owners

I'm sure there are plenty of clubs who would take getting to 5 cup finals in the last 15 years

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1. Ramos - sacked next season
2. Redknapp - sacked 3 seasons later after going 4th/5th/4th in the league (after 4th place didn't secure CL that third season).
3, 4 & 5. Pochettino - sacked, just 12 games into the following season (due to looking like we might miss CL qualification).
6. Mourinho - sacked 5 days before the Cup final without even being given the chance to try to win the trophy. (because he wanted to rest players for the PL game to give maximum chance of winning the final, whereas Levy preferred the remote chance of 4th place)
 
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glorygloryeze said:
Had not Harding long since died when Bates was trying to flog Chelsea and Roman bought them in 2003?
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I thought @Bedfordspurs was suggesting that Chelsea were for sale at the point that ENIC were looking to purchase an English club? (which wasn't the case).

Bates didn't start trying to sell Chelsea until the point that the Banks wouldn't lend to them. They had a 70m Eurobond nearing term and Bates was trying to raise funds to make that payment. ENIC were already at Spurs at that point.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I thought @Bedfordspurs was suggesting that Chelsea were for sale at the point that ENIC were looking to purchase an English club? (which wasn't the case).

Bates didn't start trying to sell Chelsea until the point that the Banks wouldn't lend to them. They had a 70m Eurobond nearing term and Bates was trying to raise funds to make that payment. ENIC were already at Spurs at that point.
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When was this? Are you talking just before Harding got involved in the mid-90s? Or do you mean just before Abramovich bought them?
 
Chrissivad said:
We have reached finals and challenged for the league under Enic.

Not winning anything isn't just on the owners

I'm sure there are plenty of clubs who would take getting to 5 cup finals in the last 15 years

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And that's probably more reasonable an assessment than most would admit to. The issues with Spurs as it is with any club and modern football, you only really need a certain number of truths for everything there after to become fact and that's fine but the actual reality is that we have been put in good positions that we haven't taken advantage of. The blame lies more spread than people would also admit and there is always conflation of other issues, the board 100% carry blame for our failings, no denying but there is absolutely no doubt the managers and players have played their part.

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Grays_1890 said:
And that's probably more reasonable an assessment than most would admit to. The issues with Spurs as it is with any club and modern football, you only really need a certain number of truths for everything there after to become fact and that's fine but the actual reality is that we have been put in good positions that we haven't taken advantage of. The blame lies more spread than people would also admit and there is always conflation of other issues, the board 100% carry blame for our failings, no denying but there is absolutely no doubt the managers and players have played their part.

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This is true but as many say, the tone of ambition of the club is set at the top. It's one thing to sack Gooner Graham before the cup semi-final of 2001 (one of ENIC's first move when they bought us) which was on one hand crazy given Graham's decent record against them at the time and his motivation to get one over on them, but on the other hand understandable (sort of) to not want a Gooner stench in any future success etc (though remember the joke that when Hoddle wasn't guaranteed to come in just yet they wanted his Graham's Gooner assistant Stewart Houston to take the reins in the meantime, haha sound familiar??)
Ok what was done was done, hey ho.

But twenty years later the same ENIC then sack Jose (the master in cup finals and often the master Pep-antidote) less than a week before facing Pep in said cup final...i mean that says everything about the tone/priorities set at the top (after all if they really wanted rid of Jose they had ample opportunity/excuse to do so long before then)..
 
glorygloryeze said:
This is true but as many say, the tone of ambition of the club is set at the top. It's one thing to sack Gooner Graham before the cup semi-final of 2001 (one of ENIC's first move when they bought us) which was on one hand crazy given Graham's decent record against them at the time and his motivation to get one over on them, but on the other hand understandable (sort of) to not want a Gooner stench in any future success etc (though remember the joke that when Hoddle wasn't guaranteed to come in just yet they wanted his Graham's Gooner assistant Stewart Houston to take the reins in the meantime, haha sound familiar??)
Ok what was done was done, hey ho.

But twenty years later the same ENIC then sack Jose (the master in cup finals and often the master Pep-antidote) less than a week before facing Pep in said cup final...i mean that says everything about the tone/priorities set at the top (after all if they really wanted rid of Jose they had ample opportunity/excuse to do so long before then)..
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Everyone wanted Hoddle though lets be fair with that one. Jol and Poch were the shockers that stand out TBH.

The tone thing that I have seen on here about our performance in cups is detracted by the play for CL just is not true either, as I have said previously the clubs gone deeper more often than anytime in its history and there are various reasons we have not crossed the line, against a mix of lack of investment, manager choices and players performances, its not just the tone from the club IMO. There is most definitely a collective blame on our inability to cross the line even if the bulk of that sits with the board.

TBH its conversations that have been done to death on here, no least by me haha, reality is they are not going anywhere, anytime soon, for me they need to get this summer right more than anything thats gone on in the past....if they don't they are done from my side. The Munn situation is most certainly positive, Fab will likely leave so gives us scope to bring in a new team before pre season, for better of worse, as I say they need to get that right more now than ever.

It will be a summer of discontent anyway because when Fab and Kane leave that will divide alot of opinion and cause ALOT of infighting. That will be my que for New York and Colombia haha
 
glorygloryeze said:
This is true but as many say, the tone of ambition of the club is set at the top. It's one thing to sack Gooner Graham before the cup semi-final of 2001 (one of ENIC's first move when they bought us) which was on one hand crazy given Graham's decent record against them at the time and his motivation to get one over on them, but on the other hand understandable (sort of) to not want a Gooner stench in any future success etc (though remember the joke that when Hoddle wasn't guaranteed to come in just yet they wanted his Graham's Gooner assistant Stewart Houston to take the reins in the meantime, haha sound familiar??)
Ok what was done was done, hey ho.

But twenty years later the same ENIC then sack Jose (the master in cup finals and often the master Pep-antidote) less than a week before facing Pep in said cup final...i mean that says everything about the tone/priorities set at the top (after all if they really wanted rid of Jose they had ample opportunity/excuse to do so long before then)..
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The game is up once you've lost the dressing room though, which all 3 of those had.

Nice guys always retain a bit of loyalty. But when you are not one, and you then lose performance too, then there's no where to go.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I thought @Bedfordspurs was suggesting that Chelsea were for sale at the point that ENIC were looking to purchase an English club? (which wasn't the case).

Bates didn't start trying to sell Chelsea until the point that the Banks wouldn't lend to them. They had a 70m Eurobond nearing term and Bates was trying to raise funds to make that payment. ENIC were already at Spurs at that point.
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It wasn’t me suggesting it
It was Gazza
I was just responding to his post
 
Gutter Boy said:
The game is up once you've lost the dressing room though, which all 3 of those had.

Nice guys always retain a bit of loyalty. But when you are not one, and you then lose performance too, then there's no where to go.
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Eh? Graham had lost the dressing room?? You'll have to remind me of those details because we were playing poor football but no more poor than we had been for months before the sacking; ditto the same can be said for Jose. Ditto Poch actually...

The Jose sacking reason being that he'd lost the dressing room doesn't stand up to any scrutiny given the timing of the sacking and the fact fact that by the sacking we were playing no better or worse than weeks prior e.g. the defeat to a team in the EL that didn't even have a manager...!
 
He was definitely sacked after speaking out in the media - it was basically an easy excuse to get rid of him as whatever he was talking about publically probably went against something in his contract so was an easy to get rid and for the new board to win brownie points and pie off a manager the fans didn't like for a club hero.
 
billyiddo said:
He was definitely sacked after speaking out in the media - it was basically an easy excuse to get rid of him as whatever he was talking about publically probably went against something in his contract so was an easy to get rid and for the new board to win brownie points and pie off a manager the fans didn't like for a club hero.
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Conversely, those early shoots of Hoddles time were decent, that 352 with Ziege with Freund holding and Dean Richards pre injury, we were so good to watch at times. Real shame we ran out of legs and busted up, has some real swashbuckling games under him.



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Grays_1890 said:
Conversely, those early shoots of Hoddles time were decent, that 352 with Ziege with Freund holding and Dean Richards pre injury, we were so good to watch at times. Real shame we ran out of legs and busted up, has some real swashbuckling games under him.



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The year we got to the league cup final was my first season ticket, i don't remember that period all to well tbf
 
billyiddo said:
He was definitely sacked after speaking out in the media - it was basically an easy excuse to get rid of him as whatever he was talking about publically probably went against something in his contract so was an easy to get rid and for the new board to win brownie points and pie off a manager the fans didn't like for a club hero.
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That was exactly it yes.... We'd won an away FA Cup quarter final against what was a decent West Ham team back then 2-3 (that was perhaps in my top 10 Spurs away trips, I still remember the celebrations with the players at the end of the game and I ended up on TV a few times, celebrating Spurs first goal and also in the celebrations with the players at the end of the game. I remember it being rather spicy when we came out and having to avoid all sorts of fights going on). Graham was sacked 5 days later. Rebrov was just starting to really play well up front for us and then Hoddle came in and decided he would play him in midfield instead.

Graham was sacked 3 weeks before the FA Cup semi final so a little better in terms of timing than Mourinho's sacking 5 days before the League Cup final.

Spurs did indeed sack him for a breach of contract. Graham had leaked to the press that he was only going to be given limited transfer funds. I remember being pleased to be rid of Graham but displeased with the timing back then and it seemed that the club were putting saving some severance money over the best possible chance to win the FA Cup semi final.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Conversely, those early shoots of Hoddles time were decent, that 352 with Ziege with Freund holding and Dean Richards pre injury, we were so good to watch at times. Real shame we ran out of legs and busted up, has some real swashbuckling games under him.



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I saw a program recently (think it might've been one about Teddy Sherringham) where Hoddle stated that he had a really tight transfer budget so had to take a quite a few old pros on to try to improve our quality even though they didn't all still really have the legs.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Conversely, those early shoots of Hoddles time were decent, that 352 with Ziege with Freund holding and Dean Richards pre injury, we were so good to watch at times. Real shame we ran out of legs and busted up, has some real swashbuckling games under him.



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It was an excellent side, but old and could only last half the season. All the eggs were in the league cup basket to qualify for Europe then the promise of additional funds being made available. Unfortunately we were a Les Ferdinand shocker away from lifting the trophy and the rest is history, team was dead on its feet for the last few months of the season and Hoddle couldn’t turn it around. Also didn’t help that Teddy was up till gone midnight playing cards with his cronies in the team the night before the game. I was in the same hotel so know that for a fact.

no doubt Enic will be blamed for this cup final defeat as well?!:D
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
It was an excellent side, but old and could only last half the season. All the eggs were in the league cup basket to qualify for Europe then the promise of additional funds being made available. Unfortunately we were a Les Ferdinand shocker away from lifting the trophy and the rest is history, team was dead on its feet for the last few months of the season and Hoddle couldn’t turn it around. Also didn’t help that Teddy was up till gone midnight playing cards with his cronies in the team the night before the game. I was in the same hotel so know that for a fact.

no doubt Enic will be blamed for this cup final defeat as well?!:D
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We were the better side bar Hughes running midfield as a near 40 year old which I don't think I will ever get over.

I wanted Hoddle to win that final more than anything I've ever wanted as a Spurs fan (bar the CL final).

Those days were well early for Enic to have been blamed for anything, I will accept anything about recent times back then, na, Graham was forever making power plays with Ginola who was the best player or one of in the league despite him. They were forever having digs in the press, Ferdinand in the Sky documentary said it was all GG ego more than anything




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