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ENIC

Don't know if anyone has played crusader kings 3? But there are a couple of different stategies to the game in order to become the most powerful dynasty (if that is your aim). Most try to paint the map. Go all out and conquer as fast as they can. Gaining more counties money power that way. A few though are more patient and play tall. Investing in infrastructure, tradeports, cities etc...

Painting the map is more exciting and can get great results. But also is riskier. You can get overstretched.

Playing tall, maybe takes more time but you have a much more stable foundation if anything goes wrong.

Found it funny when it clicked to me enic are "playing it tall".
 
Lilbaz said:
Don't know if anyone has played crusader kings 3? But there are a couple of different stategies to the game in order to become the most powerful dynasty (if that is your aim). Most try to paint the map. Go all out and conquer as fast as they can. Gaining more counties money power that way. A few though are more patient and play tall. Investing in infrastructure, tradeports, cities etc...

Painting the map is more exciting and can get great results. But also is riskier. You can get overstretched.

Playing tall, maybe takes more time but you have a much more stable foundation if anything goes wrong.

Found it funny when it clicked to me enic are "playing it tall".
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similarly, ever played Civilization, yes you can build military units and attack your way to victory, but you can also just do a good job and wait for other cities to choose to join you
 
Baleforce said:
similarly, ever played Civilization, yes you can build military units and attack your way to victory, but you can also just do a good job and wait for other cities to choose to join you
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Loved civilization. It was just recently i'd heard the term playing tall. Not a gamer as such.
 
ENIC and poor old Mr Levy get a lot of stick on here but I think they've done a fantastic job in ruining the reputations of ex chelscum managers....

Daniel has proved that AVB, mourinho and Conte are all f...ing useless without having blllions to spend....

Lampard was able to do that without Daniel's help...
 
NLS said:
ENIC and poor old Mr Levy get a lot of stick on here but I think they've done a fantastic job in ruining the reputations of ex chelscum managers....

Daniel has proved that AVB, mourinho and Conte are all f...ing useless without having blllions to spend....

Lampard was able to do that without Daniel's help...
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Always a silver lining I suppose
 
NLS said:
ENIC and poor old Mr Levy get a lot of stick on here but I think they've done a fantastic job in ruining the reputations of ex chelscum managers....

Daniel has proved that AVB, mourinho and Conte are all f...ing useless without having blllions to spend....

Lampard was able to do that without Daniel's help...
Click to expand...
Careful what you wish for, he might end up being our next manager!
 
Time to really knock things into shape for me, have to be picking a manager that matches the clubs strategy in the market and with you, big test again especially after the quick changes in managers.

By some accounts Fabs out come end of the season too, so could be a wholesale change again, if thats the case we need a set structure that we can at least stick to for more than 1/2 years at a time
 
Grays_1890 said:
Time to really knock things into shape for me, have to be picking a manager that matches the clubs strategy in the market and with you, big test again especially after the quick changes in managers.

By some accounts Fabs out come end of the season too, so could be a wholesale change again, if thats the case we need a set structure that we can at least stick to for more than 1/2 years at a time
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I questioned the strategy on here a few months back and mentioned that Levy was still far too close to the footballing side/decisions.

I was shot down by quite a few. Told that Levy had handed over the footballing reigns to Paratici and that the structure/strategy was now in place for the football to blossom. Apparently even if Conte were to go, we would slot someone straight into that structure to again work with Paratici who controls the football side/transfers etc.

Im not even going to get into the transfers of the likes of Spence, Danjuma, Lenglet.

Club is a shambles imo and will continue to be so whilst ultimately Levy has a hand in the football side.
 
Raziel said:
Yep, which is why after 275 pages, the answer we return to the same answer

- ENIC runs a self funded model, and there is a legitimate statement that said model will not get us top level success (it probably should have got us a trophy or two) and will not allow us to really compete with money doping clubs.

- Somehow, operating within the rules, trying to run a sustainable model that has lifted the club consistently over 20 years to the point we have probably ceiling out under this model, is something to be mocked, brick on

- So instead of acknowledging the PL model is broken and full of cheaters, and some want us to join the cheaters Instead, the painting that ENIC/Levy are the worse owners ever and destroying the club (and throw in some antisemitic brick for free) and anyone who disagree is an idiot, apologists, etc.
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No. My issue is not with the amount spent. It has always been with the inconsistency of the model followed and the lack of decisiveness in doing so.

I'm fine with not spending as much as City, United or even Arsenal. We never did. But what we'd need to do was make lots of smaller more speculative investments. Some of which would undoubtedly fail but with good scouting and a commitment to the model over the years would likely have proven very fruitful. There are many clubs who spend much less than we have who have this model and have used it successfully. With the added finance of the PL there is no reason to think we couldn't have done the same.

The few times we have actually done so are the times when the ENIC led Tottenham has been it's most successful. Instead we have Levy, a cautious chairman afraid to take risks, who instead waits for players to become proven at which point their overall cost has become prohibitive. Yet he still demands that our coaches continually perform relative to the funding the club provides.

I have no problem finishing 5th, 6th, 7th etc if we have a team of players who failed at bigger clubs or unappreciated gems, along with young players who haven't quite made their mark yet but via a comprehensive scouting network we have identified their potential. Levy however does, so instead we have a broken model where he expects and demands a higher level of success but with a lower level of input. That's my issue with ENIC and it will always be.

Even now with Paratici's incoming we have once again moved back towards something of that model with the signings of Gil, Spence, Sarr etc etc. Yet we employed a coach like Conte who has no specific history of bringing through and developing players of that Ilk. Again the strategy is broken, are we club that focuses on developing its own youth prospects and finding and developing underappreciated gems from elsewhere or are we side that hires a "world class" manager who expects and needs world class materials to work with?

You can't be both. ENIC should know this by now, it's only been 20 years.

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Bishop said:
No. My issue is not with the amount spent. It has always been with the inconsistency of the model followed and the lack of decisiveness in doing so.

I'm fine with not spending as much as City, United or even Arsenal. We never did. But what we'd need to do was make lots of smaller more speculative investments. Some of which would undoubtedly fail but with good scouting and a commitment to the model over the years would likely have proven very fruitful. There are many clubs who spend much less than we have who have this model and have used it successfully. With the added finance of the PL there is no reason to think we couldn't have done the same.

The few times we have actually done so are the times when the ENIC led Tottenham has been it's most successful. Instead we have Levy, a cautious chairman afraid to take risks, who instead waits for players to become proven at which point their overall cost has become prohibitive. Yet he still demands that our coaches continually perform relative to the funding the club provides.

I have no problem finishing 5th, 6th, 7th etc if we have a team of players who failed at bigger clubs or unappreciated gems, along with young players who haven't quite made their mark yet but via a comprehensive scouting network we have identified their potential. Levy however does, so instead we have a broken model where he expects and demands a higher level of success but with a lower level of input. That's my issue with ENIC and it will always be.

Even now with Paratici's incoming we have once again moved back towards something of that model with the signings of Gil, Spence, Sarr etc etc. Yet we employed a coach like Conte who has no specific history of bringing through and developing players of that Ilk. Again the strategy is broken, are we club that focuses on developing its own youth prospects and finding and developing underappreciated gems from elsewhere or are we side that hires a "world class" manager who expects and needs world class materials to work with?

You can't be both. ENIC should know this by now, it's only been 20 years.

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We just need to follow the recruiting model we currently have but matched with a manager that fits with that. And there are plenty of managers that fit with that.

Perhaps there was a touch of 'we're now a big club' 'lets just go and win' mentality with the Jose and AC appointments but to be honest a bigger part was trying to make best use of the last cycle of Son and Kane. Trying to fast track success because time wasn't on our side with those two.

Sadly, I think that underestimates how quickly a decent project manager can get things going in the right direction.
Of course, they probably over listened to the 'long painful rebuild' narrative echoing around the Lane.
 
Bishop said:
No. My issue is not with the amount spent. It has always been with the inconsistency of the model followed and the lack of decisiveness in doing so.

I'm fine with not spending as much as City, United or even Arsenal. We never did. But what we'd need to do was make lots of smaller more speculative investments. Some of which would undoubtedly fail but with good scouting and a commitment to the model over the years would likely have proven very fruitful. There are many clubs who spend much less than we have who have this model and have used it successfully. With the added finance of the PL there is no reason to think we couldn't have done the same.

The few times we have actually done so are the times when the ENIC led Tottenham has been it's most successful. Instead we have Levy, a cautious chairman afraid to take risks, who instead waits for players to become proven at which point their overall cost has become prohibitive. Yet he still demands that our coaches continually perform relative to the funding the club provides.

I have no problem finishing 5th, 6th, 7th etc if we have a team of players who failed at bigger clubs or unappreciated gems, along with young players who haven't quite made their mark yet but via a comprehensive scouting network we have identified their potential. Levy however does, so instead we have a broken model where he expects and demands a higher level of success but with a lower level of input. That's my issue with ENIC and it will always be.

Even now with Paratici's incoming we have once again moved back towards something of that model with the signings of Gil, Spence, Sarr etc etc. Yet we employed a coach like Conte who has no specific history of bringing through and developing players of that Ilk. Again the strategy is broken, are we club that focuses on developing its own youth prospects and finding and developing underappreciated gems from elsewhere or are we side that hires a "world class" manager who expects and needs world class materials to work with?

You can't be both. ENIC should know this by now, it's only been 20 years.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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So you'd be happy with a model that sees us outside CL, but you call the one that has us regularly inside the top 4 broken? I don't get the logic there.

We've bought plenty of young players that have gone on to be a success, Modric, Bale, Dele being the best examples. That should continue but also with buying established players as well, like we have always done. It's not an either-or scenario, we can do both. We haven't moved back to a buy young policy with Paratici signing Gil, Spence, Sarr etc, for each of them there is an established player bought by Paratici, Richarlison, Bissouma, Persic etc.
 
DubSpur said:
So you'd be happy with a model that sees us outside CL, but you call the one that has us regularly inside the top 4 broken? I don't get the logic there.

We've bought plenty of young players that have gone on to be a success, Modric, Bale, Dele being the best examples. That should continue but also with buying established players as well, like we have always done. It's not an either-or scenario, we can do both. We haven't moved back to a buy young policy with Paratici signing Gil, Spence, Sarr etc, for each of them there is an established player bought by Paratici, Richarlison, Bissouma, Persic etc.
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Top 4 is a means to an end not the end. I did not say that the model we should follow would see us outside of the top 4 regularly. I actually think the opposite but yes I would be willing to accept lower finishes if I can see and understand a consistent model of application that leads to overall progression.

As it is now, we lurch from one strategy to the other and that does not allow any consistency and easily repeatable results. Nor does it allow us to build on the successes we do garner.

We just about managed to scrape top 4 last season (largely down to Arsenal bottling it) but look unlikely to do so again this year and now have yet another managerial change and likely another significant adjustment as yet another manager will come in and find the players already in situ do not fit his playing style.

If you like the randomness of pairing "world class" managers with developing players and watching the inevitable fallout, well cool for you. Instead I'd rather see the club have a consistent strategy that it can build upon to actually achieve real success.

But that's just me. *Shrug*

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Bishop said:
Top 4 is a means to an end not the end. I did not say that the model we should follow would see us outside of the top 4 regularly. I actually think the opposite but yes I would be willing to accept lower finishes if I can see and understand a consistent model of application that leads to overall progression.

As it is now, we lurch from one strategy to the other and that does not allow any consistency and easily repeatable results. Nor does it allow us to build on the successes we do garner.

We just about managed to scrape top 4 last season (largely down to Arsenal bottling it) but look unlikely to do so again this year and now have yet another managerial change and likely another significant adjustment as yet another manager will come in and find the players already in situ do not fit his playing style.

If you like the randomness of pairing "world class" managers with developing players and watching the inevitable fallout, well cool for you. Instead I'd rather see the club have a consistent strategy that it can build upon to actually achieve real success.

But that's just me. *Shrug*

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Do we lurch from one strategy to another though? Mourinho, nuno and conte were all counter attacking managers.
 
Lilbaz said:
Do we lurch from one strategy to another though? Mourinho, nuno and conte were all counter attacking managers.
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It clearly doesn't work, as we would need three monsters at the back, pacy attacking wing backs and lightning fast attackers.

We need to shift some of the old guard and replenish the team built around the strengths of kulu, son, kane, richy, bentancur, romero.

Porro too early to judge, but have high hopes for him and udogie.

We all know we have massive gaps that need addressing in our team, whoever comes in will have to had studied our squad to get transfers in and out asap ready for the next season.
 
Lilbaz said:
Do we lurch from one strategy to another though? Mourinho, nuno and conte were all counter attacking managers.
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Nuno isn't a counter attacking coach, he's a possessional manager he just wasn't able to implement that style on Spurs in the short time he was here. He had no time to really imprint his style post Mourinho.

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Gazza said:
It clearly doesn't work, as we would need three monsters at the back, pacy attacking wing backs and lightning fast attackers.

We need to shift some of the old guard and replenish the team built around the strengths of kulu, son, kane, richy, bentancur, romero.

Porro too early to judge, but have high hopes for him and udogie.

We all know we have massive gaps that need addressing in our team, whoever comes in will have to had studied our squad to get transfers in and out asap ready for the next season.
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Who is this old guard that we should shift? There has been a lot of new players in the last 2-3 years. Two of the players that you name that we should build around, Son & Kane, would be the old guard to me.
Leaves only Lloris, who will be replaced this summer, Dier and Davies. So that's two we need to shift?
 
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