ENIC

[Bedfordspurs]

I dunno. £31m a quarter on interest alone for their debt (which is still increasing). £124m a year. Their cashflow went from £100m to £4m. No cl this season. While losing sponsors (teamviewer deal was worth £235m), is pretty bad. No wonder the glazers are looking for investors.

But Chelsea owners said they Wollongong borrow to invest in the playing side
And are doing just that
At least the United owners haven’t lied like that (but they have lied about other things I guess)

 

[Lilbaz]

But Chelsea owners said they Wollongong borrow to invest in the playing side
And are doing just that
At least the United owners haven’t lied like that (but they have lied about other things I guess)

Wollongong?

Don't get me wrong chelsea are going to be in the brick aswell. Just think utd could be in real trouble now. Us inflation seems to have come down though so can't see them putting interest rates again.

Edit - seems i was wrong they raised it by 0.25% a few days ago.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Wollongong?

Don't get me wrong chelsea are going to be in the brick aswell. Just think utd could be in real trouble now. Us inflation seems to have come down though so can't see them putting interest rates again.

Wouldn’t

united are being sold so no one cares

Chelsea have just been brought and already have an additional huge debt which they said would never happen

 

[Lilbaz]

Wouldn’t

united are being sold so no one cares

Chelsea have just been brought and already have an additional huge debt which they said would never happen

If i was a prospective buyer i'd let them do what fsg did to hicks and gillet. Let them default and buy from the banks for a fraction of the asking price.

Anyway this is better for the utd thread.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If i was a prospective buyer i'd let them do what fsg did to hicks and gillet. Let them default and buy from the banks for a fraction of the asking price.

Anyway this is better for the utd thread.

Then you wouldn’t be a ‘prospective buyer’…. You would instead be a non buyer.

If you’re looking to buy a specific asset then hoping you can wait and buy from the senior debt issuer is probably the very worst tactic. It’s 99%+ likely that you won’t get the business at all (you can learn from mistakes I made earlier in my career here )

The key thing to pay attention to is Man Utd’s EBITDA number. They’re not getting seized by their creditors any time soon. Though they are probably very ripe for a sale at a reasonable (for a prestige asset) price.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Then you wouldn’t be a ‘prospective buyer’…. You would instead be a non buyer.

If you’re looking to buy a specific asset then hoping you can wait and buy from the senior debt issuer is probably the very worst tactic. It’s 99%+ likely that you won’t get the business at all (you can learn from mistakes I made earlier in my career here )

The key thing to pay attention to is Man Utd’s EBITDA number. They’re not getting seized by their creditors any time soon. Though they are probably very ripe for a sale at a reasonable (for a prestige asset) price.

What would you say is reasonable?
The quoted figures are £6/7B
I find it bonkers that football clubs are being valued so high when these clubs still need a significant investment in their infrastructure
If a club has everything in place off the pitch, the right investment on it cbs transform it quickly (look at city)
If not…. It’s a big risk as you also have more competing forces

 

[Finney Is Back]

What would you say is reasonable?
The quoted figures are £6/7B
I find it bonkers that football clubs are being valued so high when these clubs still need a significant investment in their infrastructure
If a club has everything in place off the pitch, the right investment on it cbs transform it quickly (look at city)
If not…. It’s a big risk as you also have more competing forces

I think Man Utd would go for £5b.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Man Utd would go for £5b.

So a £6B plus investment with the stadium and training ground work needed
£750M turnover and £100m profit
That’s a huge gamble

 

[Finney Is Back]

So a £6B plus investment with the stadium and training ground work needed
£750M turnover and £100m profit
That’s a huge gamble

They don’t need a new stadium or training ground. They have the highest/second highest match day income in the PL…. Yes, Old Trafford looks old now compared to our new stadium but I don’t think a business plan around buying Man Utd would involve a large investment in the stadium, it would be hard to justify the cost to income ratio.

 

[Finney Is Back]

So a £6B plus investment with the stadium and training ground work needed
£750M turnover and £100m profit
That’s a huge gamble

I think your comment there about the £100m profit probably shows that you misunderstand why people want to own prestige assets. How much ‘profit’ do you make for example in owning a Picasso painting? Or a Maclaren F1 car (or whatever the Uber rich are buying these days). The market is in the prestige of being the owner of a unique thing. In the world of the Uber rich every day is literally a dingdong waving competition. Man Utd is a pretty damn big dingdong to wave.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think your comment there about the £100m profit probably shows that you misunderstand why people want to own prestige assets. How much ‘profit’ do you make for example in owning a Picasso painting? Or a Maclaren F1 car (or whatever the Uber rich are buying these days). The market is in the prestige of being the owner of a unique thing.

No I understand that
But for the money being “invested” most would expect an element of a return
The assets you quote are appreciating in value

and the prestige comes from a name I agree but that name is falling from its standards

it’s like buying a rolls Royce convertible because it was once great as a premium, but having a hole in the roof

even the current owners have acknowledged that they need to fix the ground and training facilities to bring them to to a level of a club of united historical stature

 

[Finney Is Back]

No I understand that
But for the money being “invested” most would expect an element of a return
The assets you quote are appreciating in value

and the prestige comes from a name I agree but that name is falling from its standards

it’s like buying a rolls Royce convertible because it was once great as a premium, but having a hole in the roof

even the current owners have acknowledged that they need to fix the ground and training facilities to bring them to to a level of a club of united historical stature

Why are those assets appreciating in value?…. They make no ‘profit’. The market for Prestige assets is solely defined by what the Uber rich will pay. The cachet associated with owning a big PL football team is going up and up…. Probably more so than the cachet in owning a Picasso.

Also ‘fix’ will equate to just that I think…. A bit of tarting up and making look a bit more presentable, not a £1b investment.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Why are those assets appreciating in value?…. They make no ‘profit’. The market for Prestige assets is solely defined by what the Uber rich will pay. The cachet associated with owning a big PL football team is going up and up…. Probably more so than the cachet in owning a Picasso.

They are unique, low maintenance and have no competition
A Picasso is a one off
A football team one of many
Only a very very small amount can win anything
And for them to win anything they need significant investment and upkeep. Again things that aren’t needed with a painting or a car (that you can leave in the garage)
I agree it’s an ego buy but whoever buys it does need to get its prestige back
City wasn’t brought for prestige
Neither was Saudi Sportswashing Machine

 

[Finney Is Back]

They are unique, low maintenance and have no competition
A Picasso is a one off
A football team one of many
Only a very very small amount can win anything
And for them to win anything they need significant investment and upkeep. Again things that aren’ti look needed with a painting or a car (that you can leave in the garage)
I agree it’s an ego buy but whoever buys it does need to get its prestige back

A Picasso is a piece of art… there are billions of pieces of art, thousands made by Picasso alone. Owning Man Utd is WAY more prestigious than owning a Picasso, every billionaire will have at least one Picasso, even many mere millionaires.

A very expensive piece of art also has very expensive insurance and often expensive storage costs (most of the World’s privately owned art is in storage). As prestige assets go Man Utd are a great deal. One of the world’s largest football clubs and biggest sporting club brands that pays its own upkeep.

I remember many people on here telling me that Chelsea FC wasn’t worth much and that I was mad saying they were worth £3b…. It is because most of us mere mortals don’t understand how the world of the Uber rich works.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why are those assets appreciating in value?…. They make no ‘profit’. The market for Prestige assets is solely defined by what the Uber rich will pay. The cachet associated with owning a big PL football team is going up and up…. Probably more so than the cachet in owning a Picasso.

Also ‘fix’ will equate to just that I think…. A bit of tarting up and making look a bit more presentable, not a £1b investment.

The art world is a fix. If you had 4 people with picassos worth £5m each. Then person a sold one to person b for £10m, then person b to c, the c to d then d to a. Guess what everyone still has picassos but instead of being worth £5m each they are now worth £10m. With nobody actually spending any money.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A Picasso is a piece of art… there are billions of pieces of art, thousands made by Picasso alone. Owning Man Utd is WAY more prestigious than owning a Picasso, every billionaire will have at least one Picasso, even many mere millionaires.

A very expensive piece of art also has very expensive insurance and often expensive storage costs (most of the World’s privately owned art is in storage). As prestige assets go Man Utd are a great deal. One of the world’s largest football clubs and biggest sporting club brands that pays its own upkeep.

I remember many people on here telling me that Chelsea FC wasn’t worth much and that I was mad saying they were worth £3b…. It is because most of us mere mortals don’t understand how the world of the Uber rich works.

No one is saying your wrong with the valuation as far as I can see
Just that whoever buys it must have deep pockets and will need to throw a lot of money at it to get the prestige back or maintain it
The club makes a lot of money of course but any buyer needs to beware of other owners and completion
United managers previously said city wouldn’t catch them…

 

[Finney Is Back]

The art world is a fix. If you had 4 people with picassos worth £5m each. Then person a sold one to person b for £10m, then person b to c, the c to d then d to a. Guess what everyone still has picassos but instead of being worth £5m each they are now worth £10m. With nobody actually spending any money.

They’ve actually all just spent significant auction fees (and paid a lot of VAT) and guess what?…. they’re all actually simply worth whatever the next person is prepared to pay for them…. The same as for a prestige football club (where Man Utd may well be worth more now due to the Chelsea purchase price (your Picasso analogy) .

 

[Lilbaz]

They’ve actually all just spent significant auction fees (and paid a lot of VAT) and guess what?…. they’re all actually simply worth whatever the next person is prepared to pay for them…. The same as for a prestige football club (where Man Utd may well be worth more now due to the Chelsea purchase price (your Picasso analogy) .

Cheseas price was largely dictated by the fact that they think they can move the ground to earls court and redevelop stamford bridge. The pitch owners might have something to say about it though (i believe the spurs fan involved is a property developer and also has connections to the earls court development).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-considering-Stamford-Bridge-Earls-Court.html

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Cheseas price was largely dictated by the fact that they think they can move the ground to earls court and redevelop stamford bridge. The pitch owners might have something to say about it though (i believe the spurs fan involved is a property developer and also has connections to the earls court development).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-considering-Stamford-Bridge-Earls-Court.html

It’s still a vanity project for Todd
I mean any owner who gets the fans to unveil a banner of his image in their first big game (when they have done nothing) is mental

 

[Lilbaz]

It’s still a vanity project for Todd
I mean any owner who gets the fans to unveil a banner of his image in their first big game (when they have done nothing) is mental

Yes ofcourse. I'm sure he loves the limelight.

There will probably be a sheikh that wants to be known as owner of utd. But i think investment groups might balk a bit at the price. What was utds share value before the announcement of a sale? Doubt it would have valued the club anywhere near the £5-7bn.

Not even a sheikh, there was a malaysian guy i believe that just spent $4.8bn building a golden super yacht.



https://greekreporter.com/2022/10/0...e list,for an anonymous Malaysian businessman.