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ENIC

ricky2tricky4city said:
A 'fire sale' usually leads to getting something at a bargain price?

HP didn't 'simply overpay' ...various illegal accounting practices from the Autonomy hierarchy led to false numbers that ramped the price up. This has been proven in court and people prosecuted.

Obviously, ENIC had long disposed of Autonomy before this all happened.
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Maybe there was an appeal by HP, but at one point they were acquitted. Exactly a 'fire sale' can just be a marketing thing. Similar to Black Friday, is there any extra value, or just a way to promote sales? In chealsea's case, the mix of lockdowns plus global news, I think it served to publicise and heighten interest and price, rather than present a bargain.
 
Lilbaz said:
As with cain hoy any bid for the club they'd have to inform the shareholders. It wouldn't be kept quiet.
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isn't ENIC privately held by Lewis and Levy? Which other shareholders are there and why can't deals be done in private?
i've been involved in due diligence work with listed companies and negotiations were held in confidence until a deal had been reached and announced only at the latest possible time when the deal has been agreed to prevent interference.
 
metalgear said:
i'm not tinkling on the club. i am trying to understand why boehly bought chelsea instead of spurs.

how do you know for sure spurs is not for sale - a quick google search will show otherwise with the athletic, ally gold and other major sports outlest here and in the us.

also this - https://www.footballtransfertavern....el-levy-lilywhites-latest-thfc-takeover-news/
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No, nothing shows the club is for sale. These are hacks trying to use click bait and saying "sources close to the club" and of course you fall for it, and sadly fans have been falling for it for the last 20 years.
Chelsea were actively for sale, Utd is actively for sale and Liverpool is actively for sale, that's why parties are looking to buy them and not Tottenham.

My next door neighbour has his house up for sale, I don't, guess which one an investor is going to try and buy?
If they come to me and offer me well over the value of my house I'll sell, but it's going to cost a lot more than my next door neighbours house.
I don't know what's hard to understand...
 
metalgear said:
isn't ENIC privately held by Lewis and Levy? Which other shareholders are there and why can't deals be done in private?
i've been involved in due diligence work with listed companies and negotiations were held in confidence until a deal had been reached and announced only at the latest possible time when the deal has been agreed to prevent interference.
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Enic is owned by levy and lewis but they only own 85% of spurs. The other 15% is owned by a lot of people.

Enic didn't want to sell to cain hoy (at least for the price offered) but were still required by law to inform shareholders a bid had been made.
 
metalgear said:
i'm not tinkling on the club. i am trying to understand why boehly bought chelsea instead of spurs.

how do you know for sure spurs is not for sale - a quick google search will show otherwise with the athletic, ally gold and other major sports outlest here and in the us.

also this - https://www.footballtransfertavern....el-levy-lilywhites-latest-thfc-takeover-news/
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Think it's pretty simple. They want to move chelsea to earls court and build luxury flats at stamford bridge. Problem being the pitch owners.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-considering-Stamford-Bridge-Earls-Court.html
 
THFC filed some documents with companies house on Monday just gone (Statement of Capital, Statement of Solvency and Statement by Directors . These would be required to do something such as reduce the capital of the company. I suspect we will see THFC decrease the company's shareholder equity by cancelling shares on 22nd December.
 
Finney Is Back said:
THFC filed some documents with companies house on Monday just gone (Statement of Capital, Statement of Solvency and Statement by Directors . These would be required to do something such as reduce the capital of the company. I suspect we will see THFC decrease the company's shareholder equity by cancelling shares on 22nd December.
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Nothing to do with the £50m they still have to draw (from enic) before the end of the year (to increase their stake)?
 
Lilbaz said:
Just saw utds interest payable on their debt has trippled.

I believe ours was set at around 2% and shouldn't be effected, is that correct (@Finney Is Back you seem in the know about this)? There will be many clubs getting fudged over the interest increases.

https://swissramble.substack.com/p/manchester-united-finances-q1-202223
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It depends on each clubs individual borrowing schedule.

It is one aspect where recent circumstances have caused us to 'luck out'.

No doubt Levy originally engineered things to look like we were in rude health, and hence encouraging financiers to offer rock bottom rates to asolid business...rates that now look unbelievable.

iirc all our financing is now fixed long term, some at 15 years but the majority at 25-30 year terms...and ALL at an average of 2.7-2.8%. The same rate you can now get on an instant access deposit account:).

And with inflation running as it is...that's just gravy.

Our interest bill is circa £20m a year. Hopefully the imminent next set of accounts will show this.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It depends on each clubs individual borrowing schedule.

It is one aspect where recent circumstances have caused us to 'luck out'.

No doubt Levy originally engineered things to look like we were in rude health, and hence encouraging financiers to offer rock bottom rates to asolid business...rates that now look unbelievable.

iirc all our financing is now fixed long term, some at 15 years but the majority at 25-30 year terms...and ALL at an average of 2.7-2.8%. The same rate you can now get on an instant access deposit account:).

And with inflation running as it is...that's just gravy.

Our interest bill is circa £20m a year. Hopefully the imminent next set of accounts will show this.
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The only problem i see is the dollar strengthening against the pound. As i believe we borrowed some from us banks.
 
As a comparison Southampton had to borrow £79m from MSD (help get thru COVID)...and in their accounts they are paying interest at 9.14%pa !

Levy will never get credit (well he might do one day?) for these hidden advantages. Putting us in the most manageable position, long term, and not paying thru the nose for it.
I think I'm correct in saying United have virtually paid in interest the equivalent of our stadium cost. Madness.
 
Lilbaz said:
The only problem i see is the dollar strengthening against the pound. As i believe we borrowed some from us banks.
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Yes that is worth thinking about. Most of our financing comes from the States in the form of bonds that bare an annual interest rate. So it depends on the currency we pay that in? Tbf the £ has bounced back against the dollar since the near parity lows. Plus I think we know a currency trader who could hedge some risk:)
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
As a comparison Southampton had to borrow £79m from MSD (help get thru COVID)...and in their accounts they are paying interest at 9.14%pa !

Levy will never get credit (well he might do one day?) for these hidden advantages. Putting us in the most manageable position, long term, and not paying thru the nose for it.
I think I'm correct in saying United have virtually paid in interest the equivalent of our stadium cost. Madness.
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Swiss ramble has £750m paid for the debt so far. But there gross debt is now the highest it's ever been at £680m. They were also getting dividends aswell £156m, but have suspended it for the 2nd quarter.
 
Lilbaz said:
Swiss ramble has £750m paid for the debt so far. But there gross debt is now the highest it's ever been at £680m. They were also getting dividends aswell £156m, but have suspended it for the 2nd quarter.
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Edit - seems they drew another £100m so debt would be £780m (at least).

Utd might be in real trouble if they don't get cl next season. I know their addidas deal drops by 30%. Other sponsorships might be effected aswell.

Edit (the edit) team viewer has withdrawn their sponsorship. Utds second biggest sponsor. https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/man-united-team-viewer-news-25766162
 
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Lilbaz said:
Edit - seems they drew another £100m so debt would be £780m (at least).

Utd might be in real trouble if they don't get cl next season. I know their addidas deal drops by 30%. Other sponsorships might be effected aswell.

Edit (the edit) team viewer has withdrawn their sponsorship. Utds second biggest sponsor. https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/man-united-team-viewer-news-25766162
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Chelsea are as bad
They borrowed £800m and are spending it on players it seems
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Chelsea are as bad
They borrowed £800m and are spending it on players it seems
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I dunno. £31m a quarter on interest alone for their debt (which is still increasing). £124m a year. Their cashflow went from £100m to £4m. No cl this season. While losing sponsors (teamviewer deal was worth £235m), is pretty bad. No wonder the glazers are looking for investors.
 
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