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Elon Musk buys twitter

Free speech is important though. If you only allow to people to post things you agree with then it’s not free speech. Everyone has their own limit to what they think is acceptable. As long as you draw the line at hate speech and threats which are covered under the law anyway then I really don’t see the problem. It’s not just people on the right who get de-platformed or cancelled, people on the left are affected too. Anyone can unfollow or block people whose views they don’t want to see.

There was a segment on the radio today which touched on this. Basically those cases where someone breaks the law should be easier to identify and deal with (although different countries, different laws, so not quite so clear cut), but there's also the matter of posting things that are not law-breaking, but could be dangerous. So say some of the anti-vax stuff during covid, or posts about self-harm or committing suicide (think Molly Russell). It's a difficult line to walk, between maintaining free speech and protecting people, especially those of a younger age or who are in some way more vulnerable.
I don't know the answer however.
 
Free speech is important though. If you only allow to people to post things you agree with then it’s not free speech. Everyone has their own limit to what they think is acceptable. As long as you draw the line at hate speech and threats which are covered under the law anyway then I really don’t see the problem. It’s not just people on the right who get de-platformed or cancelled, people on the left are affected too. Anyone can unfollow or block people whose views they don’t want to see.
Free speech is important sure but Musk doesn't give a flying fudge about that. Also, free speech doesn't mean you won't be held accountable for what you say.

If he is true to his word, and he very often is not, he will move that line on what can be said to be more lenient. He's already fired a bunch of executives including the woman who banned Trump. The brick posting will start and advertisers will leave the platform (some have already threatened to) and so will the users. And then he'll end up with Truth Social 2.0. So I think he won't change things too much or he will have flushed 44 bil down the toilet. As he is such an insufferable prick I almost wouldn't mind if the whole thing collapsed.
 
There was a segment on the radio today which touched on this. Basically those cases where someone breaks the law should be easier to identify and deal with (although different countries, different laws, so not quite so clear cut), but there's also the matter of posting things that are not law-breaking, but could be dangerous. So say some of the anti-vax stuff during covid, or posts about self-harm or committing suicide (think Molly Russell). It's a difficult line to walk, between maintaining free speech and protecting people, especially those of a younger age or who are in some way more vulnerable.
I don't know the answer however.

The anti vax stuff I can live with. I listen to the WHO, the CDC, people who know their stuff. If people are stupid enough to listen to Joe Rogan and the crackpots he has on his show then that’s their problem. I like Rogan, he’s a great interviewer but as a general rule I don’t get my vaccine advice from a UFC commentator and anyone who does needs to look at themselves. What about all the people who wear masks outside and when driving in a car with no passengers? Highly unlikely you will catch covid from being outside or from a car, those people must be getting misinformation from somewhere also. There’s being cautious and there’s just not following the science which the left are supposed to be the science party.

I agree content about suicide is extremely problematic, especially when it comes to children. There’s no easy answer but I do believe free speech is an important ideal.
 
Free speech is important sure but Musk doesn't give a flying fudge about that. Also, free speech doesn't mean you won't be held accountable for what you say.

If he is true to his word, and he very often is not, he will move that line on what can be said to be more lenient. He's already fired a bunch of executives including the woman who banned Trump. The brick posting will start and advertisers will leave the platform (some have already threatened to) and so will the users. And then he'll end up with Truth Social 2.0. So I think he won't change things too much or he will have flushed 44 bil down the toilet. As he is such an insufferable prick I almost wouldn't mind if the whole thing collapsed.

Freedom of speech has always come with a caveat of consequences, that’s been the case for as long as I have been alive. You can’t incite hatred against other people, the law covers that in most countries. What makes you think he isn’t concerned about free speech? I have no doubt he’s in it for the money and to boost his ego but plenty of people on the left are tired of constantly having to apologise and think a lot of recent ideas from the left aren’t common sense.

The bigger problem is people on both sides don’t engage with each other and don’t want to. Social media has only made things worse. As much as I use twitter, I think I’d survive without it. As it stands now, I don’t think it’s a very good forum for debate.
 
Freedom of speech has always come with a caveat of consequences, that’s been the case for as long as I have been alive. You can’t incite hatred against other people, the law covers that in most countries. What makes you think he isn’t concerned about free speech? I have no doubt he’s in it for the money and to boost his ego but plenty of people on the left are tired of constantly having to apologise and think a lot of recent ideas from the left aren’t common sense.

The bigger problem is people on both sides don’t engage with each other and don’t want to. Social media has only made things worse. As much as I use twitter, I think I’d survive without it. As it stands now, I don’t think it’s a very good forum for debate.
You are drawing a false equivalence between the right and left when it comes to public discourse. The hate and bigotry flow almost predominately from the right. If you have some specifics of how this is not the case - maybe some specific examples on your generalisation about plenty of people apologising for...actually, I'm not sure what. Educate me.

As for your second point on information silos, yes that is very true. There is less overlap and discussion, and social media has played a huge part in this as has all media forms to a greater or lesser extent. No argument there. However, there is also another false equivalence in this equation which is very obvious in the US in particular. In that place tribal epistemology has taken such a hold as to mean that they no longer have a shared reality, and one side has inherited truth and the other mostly lies.

Old Musky himself describes the problem as the left getting too radical but that his own opinions haven't changed, with a helpful cartoon recently. This is of course complete bunkum as Musk himself is tracking hard right. He is not politically neutral as much as he likes to portray himself that way. His championing of freedom is freedom from accountability and restriction. There is nothing novel in this. It is a trait shared by all reactionaries. They are attracted to the maintenance of traditional hierarchies and ultimately gravitate towards autocratic regimes as Musk is now doing. His opinions now closely align with Putin on Ukraine and Xi on Taiwan for example.

I don't post on Twitter at all myself, as frankly who wants the hassle? It is however a critical part of the public space that has outsized influence in shaping broader public opinion. I use it for news mostly but others use it to amplify their voice and for that it is exceptional. I'm not happy that another right-wing asshole has control of something as powerful as this but I'll hang on as long as I feel comfortable. If it dies something else will rise to replace it. In fact, I think Dorsey has a project in the works already.
 
You are drawing a false equivalence between the right and left when it comes to public discourse. The hate and bigotry flow almost predominately from the right. If you have some specifics of how this is not the case - maybe some specific examples on your generalisation about plenty of people apologising for...actually, I'm not sure what. Educate me.

As for your second point on information silos, yes that is very true. There is less overlap and discussion, and social media has played a huge part in this as has all media forms to a greater or lesser extent. No argument there. However, there is also another false equivalence in this equation which is very obvious in the US in particular. In that place tribal epistemology has taken such a hold as to mean that they no longer have a shared reality, and one side has inherited truth and the other mostly lies.

Old Musky himself describes the problem as the left getting too radical but that his own opinions haven't changed, with a helpful cartoon recently. This is of course complete bunkum as Musk himself is tracking hard right. He is not politically neutral as much as he likes to portray himself that way. His championing of freedom is freedom from accountability and restriction. There is nothing novel in this. It is a trait shared by all reactionaries. They are attracted to the maintenance of traditional hierarchies and ultimately gravitate towards autocratic regimes as Musk is now doing. His opinions now closely align with Putin on Ukraine and Xi on Taiwan for example.

I don't post on Twitter at all myself, as frankly who wants the hassle? It is however a critical part of the public space that has outsized influence in shaping broader public opinion. I use it for news mostly but others use it to amplify their voice and for that it is exceptional. I'm not happy that another right-wing asshole has control of something as powerful as this but I'll hang on as long as I feel comfortable. If it dies something else will rise to replace it. In fact, I think Dorsey has a project in the works already.


Maybe its the two martinis, maybe the half bottle of malt or the large glass of merlot with my dinner, but it took me a while to figure out you mean elon musky and not the character from deputy dog.
 
You are drawing a false equivalence between the right and left when it comes to public discourse. The hate and bigotry flow almost predominately from the right. If you have some specifics of how this is not the case - maybe some specific examples on your generalisation about plenty of people apologising for...actually, I'm not sure what. Educate me.

As for your second point on information silos, yes that is very true. There is less overlap and discussion, and social media has played a huge part in this as has all media forms to a greater or lesser extent. No argument there. However, there is also another false equivalence in this equation which is very obvious in the US in particular. In that place tribal epistemology has taken such a hold as to mean that they no longer have a shared reality, and one side has inherited truth and the other mostly lies.

Old Musky himself describes the problem as the left getting too radical but that his own opinions haven't changed, with a helpful cartoon recently. This is of course complete bunkum as Musk himself is tracking hard right. He is not politically neutral as much as he likes to portray himself that way. His championing of freedom is freedom from accountability and restriction. There is nothing novel in this. It is a trait shared by all reactionaries. They are attracted to the maintenance of traditional hierarchies and ultimately gravitate towards autocratic regimes as Musk is now doing. His opinions now closely align with Putin on Ukraine and Xi on Taiwan for example.

I don't post on Twitter at all myself, as frankly who wants the hassle? It is however a critical part of the public space that has outsized influence in shaping broader public opinion. I use it for news mostly but others use it to amplify their voice and for that it is exceptional. I'm not happy that another right-wing asshole has control of something as powerful as this but I'll hang on as long as I feel comfortable. If it dies something else will rise to replace it. In fact, I think Dorsey has a project in the works already.

Whilst I agree bigotry is almost always from the right, a small but vocal minority have far too much power and take pleasure in shouting people down (often attacking their own from the left) who don’t measure up to their standards. Judging people who lived hundreds of years ago, cancelling Abraham Lincoln. Judging people who lived in harsher conditions and harsher times from the comfort of an air conditioned Starbucks whilst drinking a £4 cup of coffee on their £1000 smartphones is ludicrous. Lots of filmmakers have got into hot water for not measuring up to ridiculously high standards of SJW’s on Twitter. Spielberg went out of his way to make the new West Side Story very inclusive and diverse in terms of casting, but the female lead was half Polish and half Colombian and not Puerto Rican and got grief for it. Lin Manuel Miranda (the man who made the founding fathers black and Hispanic in Hamilton) had to apologise for not including enough Afro-Latinx actors even though the cast was very diverse. There’s countless articles about college professors being fired or disciplined for saying things their fragile toddlers, sorry students didn’t want to hear. You should read the Coddling of the American Mind. Written by two liberal college professors in New York who explain when the culture of safety, safe spaces, trigger warnings started to permeate college campuses circa 2013. They’re right in the middle of it, they’re not right wing bigots. They blame the parents and the universities for raising them and indulging them but they also come up with practical solutions. That generation is now going out into the workplace and is pushing this ideology on their employers.

I completely agree the right is essentially not saveable in America, but both sides are tribal and only want to hear facts that are in line with their agenda. For example, if you say that white people were slaves, that doesn’t really jive with the narrative on the left. Most civilisations have been slaves but you’d think it was exclusively a white problem if you listen to some.

Again, I don’t think any reasonable person expects freedom from consequences. Is there anything inherently wrong with a right wing person owning a social network site like Twitter? Ideally it would be owned by a centrist, but I’d say the previous owners were left leaning to say the least. JK Rowling gets attacked constantly as does anyone who likes, retweets or agrees with her but Twitter don’t do anywhere near enough to remove those trolls. But if someone on the right attacks someone, chances are they would get banned. What I would like to see is more work done to ensure people can’t hide behind pseudonyms and fake names. Take steps to ensure users have to identify themselves so they have to own everything they like, tweet or retweet.
 
Whilst I agree bigotry is almost always from the right, a small but vocal minority have far too much power and take pleasure in shouting people down (often attacking their own from the left) who don’t measure up to their standards. Judging people who lived hundreds of years ago, cancelling Abraham Lincoln. Judging people who lived in harsher conditions and harsher times from the comfort of an air conditioned Starbucks whilst drinking a £4 cup of coffee on their £1000 smartphones is ludicrous. Lots of filmmakers have got into hot water for not measuring up to ridiculously high standards of SJW’s on Twitter. Spielberg went out of his way to make the new West Side Story very inclusive and diverse in terms of casting, but the female lead was half Polish and half Colombian and not Puerto Rican and got grief for it. Lin Manuel Miranda (the man who made the founding fathers black and Hispanic in Hamilton) had to apologise for not including enough Afro-Latinx actors even though the cast was very diverse. There’s countless articles about college professors being fired or disciplined for saying things their fragile toddlers, sorry students didn’t want to hear. You should read the Coddling of the American Mind. Written by two liberal college professors in New York who explain when the culture of safety, safe spaces, trigger warnings started to permeate college campuses circa 2013. They’re right in the middle of it, they’re not right wing bigots. They blame the parents and the universities for raising them and indulging them but they also come up with practical solutions. That generation is now going out into the workplace and is pushing this ideology on their employers.

I completely agree the right is essentially not saveable in America,and only want to hear facts that are in lin but both sides are tribal e with their agenda. For example, if you say that white people were slaves, that doesn’t really jive with the narrative on the left. Most civilisations have been slaves but you’d think it was exclusively a white problem if you listen to some.

Again, I don’t think any reasonable person expects freedom from consequences. Is there anything inherently wrong with a right wing person owning a social network site like Twitter? Ideally it would be owned by a centrist, but I’d say the previous owners were left leaning to say the least. JK Rowling gets attacked constantly as does anyone who likes, retweets or agrees with her but Twitter don’t do anywhere near enough to remove those trolls. But if someone on the right attacks someone, chances are they would get banned. What I would like to see is more work done to ensure people can’t hide behind pseudonyms and fake names. Take steps to ensure users have to identify themselves so they have to own everything they like, tweet or retweet.
Wow. That's quite a list of things that annoy you which have nothing to do with my post. I appreciate you taking the time to respond though. I'll invoke Brandoliinis law here I think.
 
Wow. That's quite a list of things that annoy you which have nothing to do with my post. I appreciate you taking the time to respond though. I'll invoke Brandoliinis law here I think.

Sorry for the rant :D but i did provide the example of JK Rowling getting bullied and receiving death threats from trans activists but Twitter doing very little to remove those users from the platform. She reports them frequently but feels Twitter doesn’t do enough because it doesn’t suit their agenda.
 
You are drawing a false equivalence between the right and left when it comes to public discourse. The hate and bigotry flow almost predominately from the right. If you have some specifics of how this is not the case - maybe some specific examples on your generalisation about plenty of people apologising for...actually, I'm not sure what. Educate me.

As for your second point on information silos, yes that is very true. There is less overlap and discussion, and social media has played a huge part in this as has all media forms to a greater or lesser extent. No argument there. However, there is also another false equivalence in this equation which is very obvious in the US in particular. In that place tribal epistemology has taken such a hold as to mean that they no longer have a shared reality, and one side has inherited truth and the other mostly lies.

Old Musky himself describes the problem as the left getting too radical but that his own opinions haven't changed, with a helpful cartoon recently. This is of course complete bunkum as Musk himself is tracking hard right. He is not politically neutral as much as he likes to portray himself that way. His championing of freedom is freedom from accountability and restriction. There is nothing novel in this. It is a trait shared by all reactionaries. They are attracted to the maintenance of traditional hierarchies and ultimately gravitate towards autocratic regimes as Musk is now doing. His opinions now closely align with Putin on Ukraine and Xi on Taiwan for example.

I don't post on Twitter at all myself, as frankly who wants the hassle? It is however a critical part of the public space that has outsized influence in shaping broader public opinion. I use it for news mostly but others use it to amplify their voice and for that it is exceptional. I'm not happy that another right-wing asshole has control of something as powerful as this but I'll hang on as long as I feel comfortable. If it dies something else will rise to replace it. In fact, I think Dorsey has a project in the works already.

Dorsey’s project:

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/jack-dorsey-bluesky-social-app-twitter-050005805.html?guccounter=1

Top fudging trolling by him to be fair. Get someone to pay $44bil for a company they had no intention of buying to announce launching a next-gen social media app which can connect all social apps but free from their invasive algorithms. Essentially Musk’s dream.
 
Sorry for the rant :D but i did provide the example of JK Rowling getting bullied and receiving death threats from trans activists but Twitter doing very little to remove those users from the platform. She reports them frequently but feels Twitter doesn’t do enough because it doesn’t suit their agenda.

She's a bigoted clam that has weaponised her army of fans against a vulnerable minority.
 
Sorry for the rant :D but i did provide the example of JK Rowling getting bullied and receiving death threats from trans activists but Twitter doing very little to remove those users from the platform. She reports them frequently but feels Twitter doesn’t do enough because it doesn’t suit their agenda.
I haven't been following that story at all so couldn't comment.
 
She doesn’t.

But her words have help normalise a dangerous intolerance.

There’s bigotry aimed towards trans people. But I also think there’s reasonable questions and debates that people raise. Anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the trans lobby’s every opinion gets labelled a trans phobe. A good example being Sharon Davies who wants fairness in womens sport. Obviously trans people shouldn’t be excluded from sport so the fairest solution to me seems to be to give them their own category. It’s not an easy issue to resolve, but it boils down to inclusion vs fairness. People like Sharon Davies raise concerns that a lot of people are thinking.
 
Dorsey’s project:

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/jack-dorsey-bluesky-social-app-twitter-050005805.html?guccounter=1

Top fudging trolling by him to be fair. Get someone to pay $44bil for a company they had no intention of buying to announce launching a next-gen social media app which can connect all social apps but free from their invasive algorithms. Essentially Musk’s dream.
I read a bit about BlueSky and it turns out Musk and Dorsey may not really be competitors, now or in the future. They are more collaborators.
https://davetroy.medium.com/no-elon-and-jack-are-not-competitors-theyre-collaborating-3e88cde5267d
 
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