Dele Alli

[Raziel]

Jose said he's carrying an injury, and that's why he wasn't in squad for Sheffield

 

[Jurgen the German]

The other two semis.....

1. Man Utd. We played well, went ahead (I think great ball by Eriksen and Dele finish) only for Dembele to uncharacteristically get his pocket picked by Pogba. Lost a tight second half... didn’t play badly or choke, just the balls didn’t fall for us. That was the one we should’ve won though IMO.

2. Chelsea. Their deeper squad showed as they brought on Hazard, Costa and Fabregas, whereas we brought on Nkoudou and Walker. We actually controlled the game, especially up to point that they made their double substitution of Hazard and Costa. Unfortunately though we just didn’t have the same depth of quality as them. Incidentally that was another semi final that Dele scored in and Eriksen got 2 assists....

Maybe Eriksen and Dele are big game players after all?)

That United semi final we played well for about 20 minutes. Then we conceded a goal and didn’t turn up in the second half. Don’t even remember De Gea having anything to do, we didn’t put them under any pressure at all. It was a really limp performance.

Don’t get me wrong, we didn’t phuck up EVERY big game we ever played under Poch but we never won enough to nick a trophy. Not to mention we either lost or drew whenever we had a chance to go top; WHU away 2015/16, Arsenal at home a few days later, we were 2-1 up at home against 10 men and we drew, we were hanging on at the end too! Bournemouth away the following season we drew 0-0 having the chance to go top if we won. Those games weren’t at the end of the season when we were tired. I don’t disagree about other teams having deeper squads but we had Kane, Toby, Jan, Lloris, Alli, Son, Eriksen, Dembele. That’s a strong core group of players, seasoned internationals.

I do think we had some kind of mental block. Anything beyond finishing in the top 4 we just didn’t have the stomach for.

 

[thfcsteff]

That United semi final we played well for about 20 minutes. Then we conceded a goal and didn’t turn up in the second half. Don’t even remember De Gea having anything to do, we didn’t put them under any pressure at all. It was a really limp performance.

Don’t get me wrong, we didn’t phuck up EVERY big game we ever played under Poch but we never won enough to nick a trophy. Not to mention we either lost or drew whenever we had a chance to go top; WHU away 2015/16, Arsenal at home a few days later, we were 2-1 up at home against 10 men and we drew, we were hanging on at the end too! Bournemouth away the following season we drew 0-0 having the chance to go top if we won. Those games weren’t at the end of the season when we were tired. I don’t disagree about other teams having deeper squads but we had Kane, Toby, Jan, Lloris, Alli, Son, Eriksen, Dembele. That’s a strong core group of players, seasoned internationals.

I do think we had some kind of mental block. Anything beyond finishing in the top 4 we just didn’t have the stomach for.

Another cheap and absolutely unwarranted -out of context- Poch bash.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Another cheap and absolutely unwarranted -out of context- Poch bash.

Steff, Finney was talking specifically about big games we didn’t win. It’s kind of hard to evaluate those games in context without mentioning the manager. I agree that Poch wasn’t backed in the transfer market as much as Jose has been and it’s true other teams arguably had deeper squads but I’m of the opinion that we still had a core group of very good players (with 1-2 world class players also) and seasoned internationals that we sometimes underperformed in some big games. Given our trophies or lack of them in the last 12 years not just under Poch’s tenure btw, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say he was fallible despite being our best manager certainly in my lifetime.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Fair to say the low block, long ball tactics don't suit him, not sure why anyone would think he doesn't suit our current game plan though

Irony is some of his best goals have come from long balls, whereby he has the rare gift of being able to pull it down, swivel and score all in the one movement.

Edit:
four or five of them on this video:

 

[Finney Is Back]

Steff, Finney was talking specifically about big games we didn’t win. It’s kind of hard to evaluate those games in context without mentioning the manager. I agree that Poch wasn’t backed in the transfer market as much as Jose has been and it’s true other teams arguably had deeper squads but I’m of the opinion that we still had a core group of very good players (with 1-2 world class players also) and seasoned internationals that we sometimes underperformed in some big games. Given our trophies or lack of them in the last 12 years not just under Poch’s tenure btw, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say he was fallible despite being our best manager certainly in my lifetime.

One thing that Poch wasn’t was lucky enough to draw Brentford in a semi-final.... or maybe he was as we beat Sheffield United in the semi of the league cup in 2015. Hopefully Jose has us going one better and winning it.

Worth noting that Eriksen got both goals in the away leg there.... even more evidence that he was actually a big game player?!?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

One thing that Poch wasn’t was lucky enough to draw Brentford in a semi-final.... or maybe he was as we beat Sheffield United in the semi of the league cup in 2015. Hopefully Jose has us going one better and winning it.

Worth noting that Eriksen got both goals in the away leg there.... even more evidence that he was actually a big game player?!?

I’m guessing that puts him on par with Sissoko then.

 

[Modric THFC]

Haven't seen the doc but there was a screenshot floating around from the West Ham game where Dele is slagging off the negative tactics and he's barely been seen since.


Fair to say the low block, long ball tactics don't suit him, not sure why anyone would think he doesn't suit our current game plan though

Amazon were sending the likes of the Athletic and random Spurs podcasts full episodes 5 days in advance of release. Mourinho, if we wanted to. would have seen the offending Dele Alli post West Ham "it just long balls and defending" outburst prior to the Everton game at the start of the season. I don't think Dele was in anyway worse than anyone else that first half to deserve being subbed off at half time.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Amazon were sending the likes of the Athletic and random Spurs podcasts full episodes 5 days in advance of release. Mourinho, if we wanted to. would have seen the offending Dele Alli post West Ham "it just long balls and defending" outburst prior to the Everton game at the start of the season. I don't think Dele was in anyway worse than anyone else that first half to deserve being subbed off at half time.

I’m guessing Mourinho would have know about deles comments long before Amazon did much with them. There is no way we didn’t see widths before broadcast to anyone else
I still say that it was Dele who turned off the tv showing their errors and Jose was fuming with that

 

[billyiddo]

Amazon were sending the likes of the Athletic and random Spurs podcasts full episodes 5 days in advance of release. Mourinho, if we wanted to. would have seen the offending Dele Alli post West Ham "it just long balls and defending" outburst prior to the Everton game at the start of the season. I don't think Dele was in anyway worse than anyone else that first half to deserve being subbed off at half time.

Doesn't the pic taken from the clip show Mourinho in ear shot of Dele when he says it? I had assumed, having not watched the doc, that he said it so he could hear?

 

[Rorschach]

Irony is some of his best goals have come from long balls, whereby he has the rare gift of being able to pull it down, swivel and score all in the one movement.

Edit:
four or five of them on this video:

There is pure genius in some of those goals. We'd be mad to let this guy leave.

 

[Jurgen the German]

One thing that Poch wasn’t was lucky enough to draw Brentford in a semi-final.... or maybe he was as we beat Sheffield United in the semi of the league cup in 2015. Hopefully Jose has us going one better and winning it.

Worth noting that Eriksen got both goals in the away leg there.... even more evidence that he was actually a big game player?!?

Yep, scraped through against Sheffield United who were in League One at the time. That was Poch’s first season to be fair. It’s true we lost to teams who were better than us or at a similar level but the performances weren’t good enough on the whole.

Eriksen did play well in big games, although not consistently. I think the problem was the big players didn’t carry the team. Individually and collectively we didn’t turn up. If 7/8 players play well you probably win the match. We all thought the top teams in world football would be after our best players. Ultimately no one came in for Toby and Eriksen ended up at Inter. Talent wise they both had it all. I don’t know why bigger teams don’t come in for them but maybe mentality was a factor?

 

[LutonSpurs]

Just watched highlights of 20 year old Dele in season 2016/17. You just can't put in to words how good he was and clearly still could be.

 

[Bishop]

That United semi final we played well for about 20 minutes. Then we conceded a goal and didn’t turn up in the second half. Don’t even remember De Gea having anything to do, we didn’t put them under any pressure at all. It was a really limp performance.

Don’t get me wrong, we didn’t phuck up EVERY big game we ever played under Poch but we never won enough to nick a trophy. Not to mention we either lost or drew whenever we had a chance to go top; WHU away 2015/16, Arsenal at home a few days later, we were 2-1 up at home against 10 men and we drew, we were hanging on at the end too! Bournemouth away the following season we drew 0-0 having the chance to go top if we won. Those games weren’t at the end of the season when we were tired. I don’t disagree about other teams having deeper squads but we had Kane, Toby, Jan, Lloris, Alli, Son, Eriksen, Dembele. That’s a strong core group of players, seasoned internationals.

I do think we had some kind of mental block. Anything beyond finishing in the top 4 we just didn’t have the stomach for.

They weren't seasoned internationals at the time. Only Lloris, Toby and Jan could be considered this in that era.

Our problem more so than mentality was a lack of creativity. The side relied solely on Eriksen to set the tempo, to play the through balls, to link midfield and attack. If you targeted him or he had an off day Spurs had no other way of playing. So when games were at their tightest, when the opposition had something to really play for like a final or a cup or even stopping us going top as their rivals we were actually quite easy to tactically stop.

I remember despairing at the time that our midfield was too functional and combatative and lacked guile, flair and creativity. That's why when it came to the key moments we failed, we only had Eriksen and he had the weight of the side on his shoulders.

Yep, scraped through against Sheffield United who were in League One at the time. That was Poch’s first season to be fair. It’s true we lost to teams who were better than us or at a similar level but the performances weren’t good enough on the whole.

Eriksen did play well in big games, although not consistently. I think the problem was the big players didn’t carry the team. Individually and collectively we didn’t turn up. If 7/8 players play well you probably win the match. We all thought the top teams in world football would be after our best players. Ultimately no one came in for Toby and Eriksen ended up at Inter. Talent wise they both had it all. I don’t know why bigger teams don’t come in for them but maybe meteorology was a factor?

I dunno. I always thought we had a good side but Poch had it massively over performing expectations. The obvious take from that is if we were over performing than the individual players are not necessarily the absolute top tier. We functioned through the system and it worked wonderfully but that system relied on specific components working specifically Eriksen for the creativity and Kane for the finishing. The rest of the side wasn't actually special on a one to one basis.

When the chips are down or the situation tough the top sides have world class or close to players who can really pull a rabbit out of a hat. Who did we have? Kane and Eriksen, Kane did it at times but a lot was already on his shoulders and Eriksen always lacked that killer cold eyed attitude. Whereas our rivals typically had at least 2 or 3 of those kind of players in the attacking third.

We've been victims to that so many a times I even remember that Shevchenko worldie Vs us despite his overall terrible form for Chelsea, he still managed to pull out something special in the time of need. The Hazard goal in the 2-2, Shanchezvgor Arsenal in the 2-2.

Some might call that mentality, I think it's more about the talent that the player possesses that they are able to draw on in those pivotal moments. Sissoko could have the iron willed mentality of Stalin but it wouldn't matter, he would still struggle to trap a bag of cement.

I think the euro elite could see what we had here more clearer than or many of our fans could due to the tribal nature of supporting your side and only wanting to see the absolute positives. We had a good system that maximised the qualities of the players we possessed but that wouldn't necessarily translate to any other setup (the Dele Ali issue).

Add the Levy negotiation factor and the players just weren't worth following up on the interest for.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They weren't seasoned internationals at the time. Only Lloris, Toby and Jan could be considered this in that era.

Our problem more so than meteorology was a lack of creativity. The side relied solely on Eriksen to set the tempo, to play the through balls, to link midfield and attack. If you targeted him or he had an off day Spurs had no other way of playing. So when games were at their tightest, when the opposition had something to really play for like a final or a cup or even stopping us going top as their rivals we were actually quite easy to tactically stop.

I remember despairing at the time that our midfield was too functional and combatative and lacked guile, flair and creativity. That's why when it came to the key moments we failed, we only had Eriksen and he had the weight of the side on his shoulders.



I dunno. I always thought we had a good side but Poch had it massively over performing expectations. The obvious take from that is if we were over performing than the individual players are not necessarily the absolute top tier. We functioned through the system and it worked wonderfully but that system relied on specific components working specifically Eriksen for the creativity and Kane for the finishing. The rest of the side wasn't actually special on a one to one basis.

When the chips are down or the situation tough the top sides have world class or close to players who can really pull a rabbit out of a hat. Who did we have? Kane and Eriksen, Kane did it at times but a lot was already on his shoulders and Eriksen always lacked that killer cold eyed attitude. Whereas our rivals typically had at least 2 or 3 of those kind of players in the attacking third.

We've been victims to that so many a times I even remember that Shevchenko worldie Vs us despite his overall terrible form for Chelsea, he still managed to pull out something special in the time of need. The Hazard goal in the 2-2, Shanchezvgor Arsenal in the 2-2.

Some might call that meteorology, I think it's more about the talent that the player possesses that they are able to draw on in those pivotal moments. Sissoko could have the iron willed meteorology of Stalin but it wouldn't matter, he would still struggle to trap a bag of cement.

I think the euro elite could see what we had here more clearer than or many of our fans could due to the tribal nature of supporting your side and only wanting to see the absolute positives. We had a good system that maximised the qualities of the players we possessed but that wouldn't necessarily translate to any other setup (the Dele Ali issue).

Add the Levy negotiation factor and the players just weren't worth following up on the interest for.

It’s not just Pochs era we lost key games in
Portsmouth ... Portsmouth
Just putting that one out there
We have a record of losing semis like a failed porn star

 

[Bishop]

It’s not just Pochs era we lost key games in
Portsmouth ... Portsmouth
Just putting that one out there
We have a record of losing semis like a failed porn star

I agree pre Poch, we had a weakness in our bellys. Maybe Poch wasn't able to completely remove that aspect but I do think our problems in Poch's time came less from mentality and more from the quality of the players available.

We tried to out football the opposition and when it worked it was wonderful but sometimes they knew how to combat us tactically and we just didn't know what to do in those situations.

We tried to play like Emirates Marketing Project but with inferior players. Even for Barcelona 08-11 which was the zenith of that playing philosophy you saw that it leads to a fine line between success and failure. If you want to out football the opposition you need the entire side to be at it's very best.

This is partially why I don't mind Mou's more pragmatic approach (to an extent) it doesn't require that every player is at their very very best just certain key players. It minimises the risks you take.

We do need to find a balance between the Poch approach and the Mou one.

 

[harr1984]

Steff, Finney was talking specifically about big games we didn’t win. It’s kind of hard to evaluate those games in context without mentioning the manager. I agree that Poch wasn’t backed in the transfer market as much as Jose has been and it’s true other teams arguably had deeper squads but I’m of the opinion that we still had a core group of very good players (with 1-2 world class players also) and seasoned internationals that we sometimes underperformed in some big games. Given our trophies or lack of them in the last 12 years not just under Poch’s tenure btw, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say he was fallible despite being our best manager certainly in my lifetime.

I see this comment a lot about Mourinho being backed as if he has bought in a load of galacticos. The window we had was massively over hyped due to the Bale loan signing - Mourinho got Reguilon for twenty something million, and beyond that? Hojberg didn’t cost much, and the rest have been squad fillers either on loan or for insignificant amounts. Poch had NDombele cost 50m plus, Sanchez around 40, Lo Celso wasn’t cheap etc so how exactly has Mourinho been backed so much more?

I agree pre Poch, we had a weakness in our bellys. Maybe Poch wasn't able to completely remove that aspect but I do think our problems in Poch's time came less from meteorology and more from the quality of the players available.

We tried to out football the opposition and when it worked it was wonderful but sometimes they knew how to combat us tactically and we just didn't know what to do in those situations.

We tried to play like Emirates Marketing Project but with inferior players. Even for Barcelona 08-11 which was the zenith of that playing philosophy you saw that it leads to a fine line between success and failure. If you want to out football the opposition you need the entire side to be at it's very best.

This is partially why I don't mind Mou's more pragmatic approach (to an extent) it doesn't require that every player is at their very very best just certain key players. It minimises the risks you take.

We do need to find a balance between the Poch approach and the Mou one.

I agree and also think Mourinho does want the same in terms of better football - we do it in periods but not for whole games, partly I don’t doubt by design but the team aren’t fully playing as he truly wants. It also doesn’t help that Lo Celso and NDombele are never fully fit at the same time - the CM options are devoid of creativity and now NDombele is fully match fit if we could get Lo Celso back to fitness we would automatically have more creativity without having to really change anything.....

 

[Benny_Lad]

Pretty much correct. Which confirms that Dele only really works in a specific system, tailored for him, with exactly the right players around him, and he becomes uneffective in other systems. That does not translate to a 100m pound player. Those players are supposed to be game changers, no matter the circumstances.
Dele is far from that.

The funny thing is I remember him winning/changing many games for us. Less so when he was dropped into the midfield 3 by Poch.

Off topic slightly - I’m struggling to judge Mount vs Dele. Mount has 2 from 18 in the league this year (I think it was 1 from 17 before the last game). Can you imagine if Dele ran out those numbers!? And the likes of Lineker are all over Mount.

 

[Benny_Lad]

IMO our best midfield of players at the club today still contains Dele. Hojbjerg with Ndombele alongside him and Dele playing where Ndombele has been playing would be a brilliant three I think.

I think a lot of us are of that opinion, especially as Jose doesn’t seem to be able to trust another forward/AM outside of Kane, Son and Bergwijn. It almost answers itself.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I see this comment a lot about Mourinho being backed as if he has bought in a load of galacticos. The window we had was massively over hyped due to the Bale loan signing - Mourinho got Reguilon for twenty something million, and beyond that? Hojberg didn’t cost much, and the rest have been squad fillers either on loan or for insignificant amounts. Poch had NDombele cost 50m plus, Sanchez around 40, Lo Celso wasn’t cheap etc so how exactly has Mourinho been backed so much more?

I agree and also think Mourinho does want the same in terms of better football - we do it in periods but not for whole games, partly I don’t doubt by design but the team aren’t fully playing as he truly wants. It also doesn’t help that Lo Celso and NDombele are never fully fit at the same time - the CM options are devoid of creativity and now NDombele is fully match fit if we could get Lo Celso back to fitness we would automatically have more creativity without having to really change anything.....

To consider whether the manager had been backed or not I think you’d have to look at net spend over the transfer windows they’ve been in for. Jose has had two windows....

Bergwijn = £27m
Lo Celso = £29m to make the loan permanent
Doherty = £15m
Hojbjerg = £15m
Regulion = £27m
Rodon = £11m
Gedson =£3m loan fee
Vinicius = £3m loan fee

Total incomings; £130m.
= £65m gross spent per window on average.

Outgoings:
Eriksen = £24m
KWP = £12m
Rose = £2m loan fee

Net total = £92m
= £46m per window.

In his 11 transfer Windows at Spurs Pochettino spent a total of £400 million on incoming player purchases and loans and recouped just over £300 million for outgoing players. Net total = £100m.

Gross spend per window = £36.4m
Net spend per window = £9.1m