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Dele Alli

braineclipse said:
Might be just my memory playing a trick on me, but I thought he struggled for form well before Mourinho came in. So did the rest of the team, but others have been able to raise their performances. Other then the good period early on under Mourinho Alli hasn't.

IIRC part of the early narrative under Mourinho was that he had helped Alli get back to his best. It didn't last, but him not performing well preceded Mourinho.

If you don't perform you don't get to play much, you get subbed early. This is life.

What are the instances of public shaming?
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19/20 Muscle Injury Jul 3, 2020 Jul 13, 2020 10 days 3
19/20 Hamstring Injury Aug 4, 2019 Aug 24, 2019 20 days 2
18/19 Fractured Hand Apr 10, 2019 Apr 15, 2019 5 days 1
18/19 Thigh Muscle Strain Jan 20, 2019 Mar 9, 2019 48 days 12
18/19 Hamstring Injury Sep 28, 2018 Oct 29, 2018 31 days 6
18/19 Hamstring Injury Sep 8, 2018 Sep 22, 2018 14 days 3

Injuries hardly helped his level of consistency but no, people love the rhetoric that he is lazy, even though the comment from Mourinho in the documentary came within his first days of managing him and was more a reputation thing than fact.

He was one of the better players under Mourinho last season and this season and what chance has he had this? Hooked at halftime when Jose said himself he was got it wrong, came on as a Sub and absolutely killed a defender for a pen with a beautiful bit of skill and hooked again in the week when again he was no worse than anyone else and we went on the get worse second half, so Jose probably got that wrong too (even if we are not talking Alli Jose got this week wrong).

So hardly the platform to show what he can do, even Kane needs games to show that and he is the best Striker in the world.

I get people will give it the Well if Jose does not rate him he knows more then us but Jose does get things wrong.

I have already mentioned the public shaming or digs, Dele has suffered more than his fair share of them.

At 24 years old with what he has done already, its short sighted to thing Alli is done, we are paying Bale 350k a week to be the player he is today not the player he is in the past, so lets treat them both the same.
 
JerusalemMan said:
The comments last year were in a very very different set of circumstances to the half-time hooks this season
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I would say when your hooked for not being the worse player this season its worse. The Everton hook was horrendous TBH, midweeks was masked because he also took off our best player from the first half in Vinny.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I would say when your hooked for not being the worse player this season its worse. The Everton hook was horrendous TBH, midweeks was masked because he also took off our best player from the first half in Vinny.
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Hmm, but there's something in the fact that Jose is very deliberately not saying anything about Dele now, even when actively encouraged to
 
Grays_1890 said:
19/20 Muscle Injury Jul 3, 2020 Jul 13, 2020 10 days 3
19/20 Hamstring Injury Aug 4, 2019 Aug 24, 2019 20 days 2
18/19 Fractured Hand Apr 10, 2019 Apr 15, 2019 5 days 1
18/19 Thigh Muscle Strain Jan 20, 2019 Mar 9, 2019 48 days 12
18/19 Hamstring Injury Sep 28, 2018 Oct 29, 2018 31 days 6
18/19 Hamstring Injury Sep 8, 2018 Sep 22, 2018 14 days 3

Injuries hardly helped his level of consistency but no, people love the rhetoric that he is lazy, even though the comment from Mourinho in the documentary came within his first days of managing him and was more a reputation thing than fact.

He was one of the better players under Mourinho last season and this season and what chance has he had this? Hooked at halftime when Jose said himself he was got it wrong, came on as a Sub and absolutely killed a defender for a pen with a beautiful bit of skill and hooked again in the week when again he was no worse than anyone else and we went on the get worse second half, so Jose probably got that wrong too (even if we are not talking Alli Jose got this week wrong).

So hardly the platform to show what he can do, even Kane needs games to show that and he is the best Striker in the world.

I get people will give it the Well if Jose does not rate him he knows more then us but Jose does get things wrong.

I have already mentioned the public shaming or digs, Dele has suffered more than his fair share of them.

At 24 years old with what he has done already, its short sighted to thing Alli is done, we are paying Bale 350k a week to be the player he is today not the player he is in the past, so lets treat them both the same.
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Injuries didn't help. He still has to get back to somewhere near his best, he hasn't.

Mourinho gets things wrong just like everyone else. That makes him neither right or wrong in this instance.

Alli started very well under Mourinho, but after that I didn't think he was one of our best players.

Getting game time isn't always fair. Getting subbed or not depends on a lot of factors in addition to how well that one player has played. This is true for all players, they have to make the best of the game time they get. Alli hasn't.

It may be short sighted. It may not be. Was it short sighted when Mourinho subbed and dropped Ndombele last season?

He hasn't been good enough, he needs to do better. And he has to do that with the limited chances he gets. If he does he'll get more game time. This is the way it's been for so many players at different times.
 
braineclipse said:
Injuries didn't help. He still has to get back to somewhere near his best, he hasn't.

Mourinho gets things wrong just like everyone else. That makes him neither right or wrong in this instance.

Alli started very well under Mourinho, but after that I didn't think he was one of our best players.

Getting game time isn't always fair. Getting subbed or not depends on a lot of factors in addition to how well that one player has played. This is true for all players, they have to make the best of the game time they get. Alli hasn't.

It may be short sighted. It may not be. Was it short sighted when Mourinho subbed and dropped Ndombele last season?

He hasn't been good enough, he needs to do better. And he has to do that with the limited chances he gets. If he does he'll get more game time. This is the way it's been for so many players at different times.
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I will end on this Dele has to take the bulk of responsibility I do not argue that, but the criticism is far greater than it should be and Jose is not helping.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I will end on this Dele has to take the bulk of responsibility I do not argue that, but the criticism is far greater than it should be and Jose is not helping.
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And I'll end on saying that the claim that Mourinho isn't helping is primarily based on Alli not performing better. His methods have been shown effective before. We'll never know what would have happened with another approach. What we do know is that all managers have some players that respond really well to their methods and some that don't. The ratio is important, but so far I think Mourinho is doing well.
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
Jose was right to take him off at half time.

If I was in charge I would have immediately subbed him after that unbelievably ridiculous decision to not play Bale in.

Additionally I would have had him stripped naked and sellotaped to the roof of the stadium.
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I would have taken Bales concrete boots off
 
I think we all struggle to see where in an in form Dele fits in this team with everyone fit/match ready.

Make it a struggling Dele, really tough to see (he's too good a player for early round cup games as a target)

I think he and the club have some decisions to make, if PSG really want him and we could take the money and get Skrinar (in January as example), would be best for both parties.
 
Raziel said:
I think we all struggle to see where in an in form Dele fits in this team with everyone fit/match ready.

Make it a struggling Dele, really tough to see (he's too good a player for early round cup games as a target)

I think he and the club have some decisions to make, if PSG really want him and we could take the money and get Skrinar (in January as example), would be best for both parties.
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Not to quote everyone's fave man (I'm thinking about you, @scaramanga) Danny Rose, but it must be hard to impress (for many players) when you don't get a decent run of games, let alone a full game. I don't blame Jose for hauling Dele off abasing The Twerps, but he seems like the sort of player who needs more than 45 minutes to get his mojo back. But that's perhaps a luxury we can't afford.
 
there is always a position for good players. But he is not playing in a way that is going to get him back in the team when he does play. With our now favored 4-3-3 his position would now be where N'Dombele is playing or Lo Celso. The front of the midfield three. Like Lampard used to do. Will his abilities work well there? I dont know, he used to have such good link up with Harry and with him dropping deep around that area it would nullify him in that location. The system would change with him there that is for sure. Harry would stick on the front line more. Can dell pick out the passes? its not part of his game he was known for that is for sure.
 
Anyone remember when dele used to play for us? I’ll bet he’s much better at fortnite with all the spare time he has.
 
Sandman said:
there is always a position for good players. But he is not playing in a way that is going to get him back in the team when he does play. With our now favored 4-3-3 his position would now be where N'Dombele is playing or Lo Celso. The front of the midfield three. Like Lampard used to do. Will his abilities work well there? I dont know, he used to have such good link up with Harry and with him dropping deep around that area it would nullify him in that location. The system would change with him there that is for sure. Harry would stick on the front line more. Can dell pick out the passes? its not part of his game he was known for that is for sure.
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Ndombele is playing quite a bit further forward than Sissoko and Hojbjerg imo. It's not a typical 4-3-3 imo.

It's more about the role. Ndombele doesn't spend a lot of time going beyond Kane, he's more of a traditional attacking midfielder adding creativity to that area.

Son is playing much more of that going beyond Kane role. I'm not sure we can effectively fit in him and Alli attacking the same space.

So Alli has to reinvent himself, be patient or go elsewhere...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Be a good thing for him to get games elsewhere
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I tend to agree. He’s been a good servant, kept his counsel to date and even at his worst still looks capable of doing things other can’t.

I think he’s now collateral damage for Mourinho to set his standards on the squad and maybe to finance a top centre back. I just hope it’s not under Poch at United.
 
MKSpur said:
I tend to agree. He’s been a good servant, kept his counsel to date and even at his worst still looks capable of doing things other can’t.

I think he’s now collateral damage for Mourinho to set his standards on the squad and maybe to finance a top centre back. I just hope it’s not under Poch at United.
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In a way he has been collateral damage. But not for Mourinho to set his standards as much as it is about fitting into the team and our style.

Alli, so far in his career, is a player with a somewhat uncommon skill set. He's great at some things, definitely average at several others. As a result he looks brilliant in a role that suits him, with a team that plays to his strengths. And fairly average in a role that doesn't quite suit him.
 
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